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Old
01-04-2010, 02:18 PM
  #101
Hemsky4PM
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Eberle was also noticeably out of his league at the end of the preseason. I'm not saying he doesn't have a great chance to make the jump, but many an NHL star has spent some time in the AHL. It's a great league.

As for Gagner, he had to either stick here or go back to London when it was decision time. In the early part of that year he wasn't scoring...except in shootouts where points were most certainly on the line. The shootout goals went away, but his production in the games increased and injuries mounted. There was never a huge impetus to remove him from the NHL scene. A year in the AHL, repeat AHL, could have served him better but wasn't an option.

As for our roster if MPS and Eberle aren't on it next season:

Penner-Gagner-Hemsky
Horcoff-Brule-O'Sullivan
Pouliot-Cogliano-Stone
Jacques-Potulny-Stortini

Not a world-beating line-up, but the sky is not falling if Moreau and Pisani are let go. I don't think anyone will be beating down doors to sign Stone or Potulny in the off-season.

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01-04-2010, 02:23 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
Eberle was also noticeably out of his league at the end of the preseason. I'm not saying he doesn't have a great chance to make the jump, but many an NHL star has spent some time in the AHL. It's a great league.

As for Gagner, he had to either stick here or go back to London when it was decision time. In the early part of that year he wasn't scoring...except in shootouts where points were most certainly on the line. The shootout goals went away, but his production in the games increased and injuries mounted. There was never a huge impetus to remove him from the NHL scene. A year in the AHL, repeat AHL, could have served him better but wasn't an option.

As for our roster if MPS and Eberle aren't on it next season:

Penner-Gagner-Hemsky
Horcoff-Brule-O'Sullivan
Pouliot-Cogliano-Stone
Jacques-Potulny-Stortini

Not a world-beating line-up, but the sky is not falling if Moreau and Pisani are let go. I don't think anyone will be beating down doors to sign Stone or Potulny in the off-season.
I doubt that PattyO will be here also with all the "small" guys we have Cogs is on the market this is where MPS and Eberle come in.

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01-04-2010, 02:24 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
Eberle was also noticeably out of his league at the end of the preseason. I'm not saying he doesn't have a great chance to make the jump, but many an NHL star has spent some time in the AHL. It's a great league.

As for Gagner, he had to either stick here or go back to London when it was decision time. In the early part of that year he wasn't scoring...except in shootouts where points were most certainly on the line. The shootout goals went away, but his production in the games increased and injuries mounted. There was never a huge impetus to remove him from the NHL scene. A year in the AHL, repeat AHL, could have served him better but wasn't an option.

As for our roster if MPS and Eberle aren't on it next season:

Penner-Gagner-Hemsky
Horcoff-Brule-O'Sullivan
Pouliot-Cogliano-Stone
Jacques-Potulny-Stortini

Not a world-beating line-up, but the sky is not falling if Moreau and Pisani are let go. I don't think anyone will be beating down doors to sign Stone or Potulny in the off-season.
If that is the lineup next season we will be getting another top 3 pick.

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01-04-2010, 02:43 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
Eberle was also noticeably out of his league at the end of the preseason. I'm not saying he doesn't have a great chance to make the jump, but many an NHL star has spent some time in the AHL. It's a great league.

As for Gagner, he had to either stick here or go back to London when it was decision time. In the early part of that year he wasn't scoring...except in shootouts where points were most certainly on the line. The shootout goals went away, but his production in the games increased and injuries mounted. There was never a huge impetus to remove him from the NHL scene. A year in the AHL, repeat AHL, could have served him better but wasn't an option.

As for our roster if MPS and Eberle aren't on it next season:

Penner-Gagner-Hemsky
Horcoff-Brule-O'Sullivan
Pouliot-Cogliano-Stone
Jacques-Potulny-Stortini

Not a world-beating line-up, but the sky is not falling if Moreau and Pisani are let go. I don't think anyone will be beating down doors to sign Stone or Potulny in the off-season.
In Gagner's rookie season he went 8-1-6-7 to start the year, at the same time that the incumbent 2nd line center (Stoll) had an outright terrible start. I still believe that the original plan of the Oilers wasn't for Gagner to start his NHL career at 18, but his hot start combined with Stoll's ice cold start conspired to change their plans. In hindsight they probably wish they'd stuck to their guns, but one doesn't have the benefit of hindsight when you're in the moment.

Looking at the forward lineup you're putting forth, all I can say is good luck with the season ticket renewals.

Isn't the definition of insanity to try the same thing over and over, hoping there will be a different result the next time?

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Old
01-04-2010, 05:36 PM
  #105
oil slick
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What's with this fixation on the AHL for the Swedes? They've got a great men's league that's physical, and seems to do a great job developing players. I can't think of a single Swede that has made a large impact in the NHL who has played a single game in the AHL. From Lidstrom to Backstrom, they've all made the jump directly to the NHL.

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01-04-2010, 05:39 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Digger12 View Post
In Gagner's rookie season he went 8-1-6-7 to start the year, at the same time that the incumbent 2nd line center (Stoll) had an outright terrible start. I still believe that the original plan of the Oilers wasn't for Gagner to start his NHL career at 18, but his hot start combined with Stoll's ice cold start conspired to change their plans. In hindsight they probably wish they'd stuck to their guns, but one doesn't have the benefit of hindsight when you're in the moment.

Looking at the forward lineup you're putting forth, all I can say is good luck with the season ticket renewals.

Isn't the definition of insanity to try the same thing over and over, hoping there will be a different result the next time?
I think they're going to sign Jagr next year for that reason alone, though getting Hall or Seguin would probably sell a lot of tickets too.

Jagr Horcoff Hemsky (vet line)
Hall Gagner Eberle (soft minutes line)
Penner Brule Cogs (all purpose line)
blank blank blank (complete rebuild of a real checking line)

Visnovsky Smid
Gilbert Staois
Grebs blank (Teubert for Souray?)

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Old
01-04-2010, 06:55 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I think they're going to sign Jagr next year for that reason alone, though getting Hall or Seguin would probably sell a lot of tickets too.

Jagr Horcoff Hemsky (vet line)
Hall Gagner Eberle (soft minutes line)
Penner Brule Cogs (all purpose line)
blank blank blank (complete rebuild of a real checking line)

Visnovsky Smid
Gilbert Staois
Grebs blank (Teubert for Souray?)
I was thinking the same thing when I read the post you quoted but you beat me to the punch. I was thinking, "funny how everyone has forgotten the Jagr option." Because, like you, I don't think the Oilers have.

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01-04-2010, 07:15 PM
  #108
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Jagr? Good God no.

0% chance this happens, lets be honest. And even if by some miracle he does come to Edmonton, they are still a bottom 10, maybe bottom 5 team in the league with all the potential lineups suggested for next season. Nothing makes sense at all and quite frankly it's going to take a few years for the roster to sort itself out, because it's such a mess.

Enough with rushing all these kids, to make room for Eberle they're going to have to get rid of 2-3 of the smurfs, i.e. 1 of Cogliano/Gagner (tough luck, bottom line is they have to do it for the sake of the roster and future balance), Nilsson and preferably O'Sullivan. Lots and lots of decisions to be made because there's just too many small, "skilled" (severely overrated skill) forwards, it's no secret.

Eberle may be ready to come up next season but I'd still rather keep him in the AHL, there is no point to bring these kids up to such a mentally weak squad, with little to no veteran leadership or potential for anything significant... they should plan at least another year or two of rebuilding. They don't have a Sidney Crosby or Alex Ovechkin prospect and nor will they get one. They have a chance to luck/suck out and get one of Seguin or Hall through next year's draft if they stay the course and that would be a great start.

But let these kids develop a little more, whether it's an extra year of Junior and then to the minors (AHL), or staying in the SEL or KHL for an extra season. There is no rush, and nor should there be. Should be eradicating some of - any of - the longer term, worse term contracts and filling in holes with cheap veteran talents for reasonable money, that they have a chance outperform on.

I'm sick of seeing kids posting **** like:

MPS-Gagner-Hemsky
Hall-Horcoff-Eberle
Penner-Brule-O'Sullivan/Nilsson/Pisani
?????????????????

It just looks plain ugly. These are teams contending for more lottery picks (which some people may say is yes - that's the point!) but you see with guys like Cogliano or Gagner, Nilsson... so many of these younger players seem to be regressing. It's a bad situation, demoralizing all around. That's bad for the mental make up of your team. Patience young grasshoppers, time will heal the wounds.

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Old
01-04-2010, 09:37 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
Jagr? Good God no.

0% chance this happens, lets be honest. And even if by some miracle he does come to Edmonton, they are still a bottom 10, maybe bottom 5 team in the league with all the potential lineups suggested for next season. Nothing makes sense at all and quite frankly it's going to take a few years for the roster to sort itself out, because it's such a mess.

Enough with rushing all these kids, to make room for Eberle they're going to have to get rid of 2-3 of the smurfs, i.e. 1 of Cogliano/Gagner (tough luck, bottom line is they have to do it for the sake of the roster and future balance), Nilsson and preferably O'Sullivan. Lots and lots of decisions to be made because there's just too many small, "skilled" (severely overrated skill) forwards, it's no secret.

Eberle may be ready to come up next season but I'd still rather keep him in the AHL, there is no point to bring these kids up to such a mentally weak squad, with little to no veteran leadership or potential for anything significant... they should plan at least another year or two of rebuilding. They don't have a Sidney Crosby or Alex Ovechkin prospect and nor will they get one. They have a chance to luck/suck out and get one of Seguin or Hall through next year's draft if they stay the course and that would be a great start.

But let these kids develop a little more, whether it's an extra year of Junior and then to the minors (AHL), or staying in the SEL or KHL for an extra season. There is no rush, and nor should there be. Should be eradicating some of - any of - the longer term, worse term contracts and filling in holes with cheap veteran talents for reasonable money, that they have a chance outperform on.

I'm sick of seeing kids posting **** like:

MPS-Gagner-Hemsky
Hall-Horcoff-Eberle
Penner-Brule-O'Sullivan/Nilsson/Pisani
?????????????????

It just looks plain ugly. These are teams contending for more lottery picks (which some people may say is yes - that's the point!) but you see with guys like Cogliano or Gagner, Nilsson... so many of these younger players seem to be regressing. It's a bad situation, demoralizing all around. That's bad for the mental make up of your team. Patience young grasshoppers, time will heal the wounds.
So you do not want Jagr and you do not want the Kids to play. It sounds like you want to sign more mediocre players. Jagr would be a huge role model for the talent we do have as he is one of the few that now what kind of work it takes to be one best in the game period. Even Hemsky could use a lesson or two from Jagr nevermind Paajarvi, Gagner, and Eberle. And on the plus side Jagr can still put up good numbers and pot a few goals that would be much needed on this team. Who is the veteran leadership for are offensive players? Fricken Horcoff. Jagr can come play for the Oilers if he wants IMHO and I am no grasshopper and I want to bring the kids that are good enough to play next year come and get there game going the sooner the better.

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Old
01-04-2010, 10:34 PM
  #110
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Oh great, now Hall of Famer Raymond Bourque is overvaluing our prospects.

He's probably been lurking for years but sooner or later, he will post.

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01-04-2010, 11:01 PM
  #111
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I hope Eberle makes the team next year but not right off the start. He should play in the AHL first and then from there he works his way up to the team. Same thing with MPS. He should first get some AHL time then make the team but I think MPS plays in Sweden, finishes his contract, then comes and plays in the AHL and eventually will work his way up to the NHL.

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01-04-2010, 11:11 PM
  #112
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As long as it's a rebuild, get as many kids playing on the farm as possible. Let them learn how to win there. Learn the system.

Hire some affordable vets and role players. Put together a balanced team with the NHL ready youth mixed in and develop an identity. Be patient.

Get the AHL'ers confident and hungry to buy into the team's system and compete for a spot and Bob's your uncle.

Too many young guys are being brought up too fast IMO. Let's win on the farm and then bring up the future stars.

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01-05-2010, 01:31 AM
  #113
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Quote:
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I hope Eberle makes the team next year but not right off the start. He should play in the AHL first and then from there he works his way up to the team. Same thing with MPS.

He should first get some AHL time then make the team but I think MPS plays in Sweden, finishes his contract, then comes and plays in the AHL and eventually will work his way up to the NHL.
I don't care if Eberle scores a goal a game in the pre-season. He should not be on the starting roster. Give him 20 games in the minors while we decide which Munchkin no longer deserves to be on the Oilers.

If Eberle continues to impress, then we promote him...

If MPS plays another year in Sweden, he will make our starting roster since he will have physically matured. Plus - he appears to handle the smaller ice surface quite well - he will not need AHL time....

...

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01-05-2010, 01:38 AM
  #114
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They are both ready for the nhl. They will be on the roster unless MPS decides he would rather stay in Sweden one more year (cant see why he would). If we draft in the top three that player will also play next year with the possible exception of Seguin. I could see him getting one more year of Junior. The brass will want these young players front and center next season. They need to sell tickets and they need something to get people excited. No way do they roll into next year with the sacks of potatoes we have right now.

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01-05-2010, 01:47 AM
  #115
oil slick
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I hope Eberle makes the team next year but not right off the start. He should play in the AHL first and then from there he works his way up to the team. Same thing with MPS. He should first get some AHL time then make the team but I think MPS plays in Sweden, finishes his contract, then comes and plays in the AHL and eventually will work his way up to the NHL.
Everyone should hope MPS doesn't spend time in the AHL. Virtually every single successful Swedish player makes the jump directly to the NHL from the SEL. The only exception are marginal players like Sjostrom.

SEL is a much better training ground for Swedish players than the AHL -- I know of almost no exceptions.

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01-05-2010, 01:52 AM
  #116
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Oh great, now Hall of Famer Raymond Bourque is overvaluing our prospects.

He's probably been lurking for years but sooner or later, he will post.

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01-05-2010, 01:58 AM
  #117
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Everyone should hope MPS doesn't spend time in the AHL. Virtually every single successful Swedish player makes the jump directly to the NHL from the SEL. The only exception are marginal players like Sjostrom.

SEL is a much better training ground for Swedish players than the AHL -- I know of almost no exceptions.
Calder candidate Bergfors says "hi".

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01-05-2010, 02:34 AM
  #118
oil slick
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Calder candidate Bergfors says "hi".
Damn you and your knowledge. Still, I'll see you your Bergfors, and raise you Lidstrom, Daniel and Henrik Sedin, Backstrom, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, and Alfredsson.

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01-05-2010, 02:40 AM
  #119
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Everyone should hope MPS doesn't spend time in the AHL. Virtually every single successful Swedish player makes the jump directly to the NHL from the SEL. The only exception are marginal players like Sjostrom.

SEL is a much better training ground for Swedish players than the AHL -- I know of almost no exceptions.
There are exceptions, depending on your definition of successful, as the likes of Loui Eriksson, Antti Miettinen, Niklas Kronwall, and Tallinder have spent parts or near full seasons down in the A. You're right in the sense that the top end talent seems to make the transition right away. Let's keep our fingers crossed for Paajarvi, though I'm in the camp that doesn't mind him staying another year in the SEL.

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01-05-2010, 03:00 AM
  #120
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There are exceptions, depending on your definition of successful ... You're right in the sense that the top end talent seems to make the transition right away.
I was too categorical in my statement, but you got my point. Great players, which I'm sure everyone is hoping Magnus will be, can make the jump.

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01-05-2010, 04:32 AM
  #121
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Steal of the draft. I really though we would have 0 chance of taking him.
Seriously... wasn't he ranked 3rd? He doesn't have character issues. He seems interested in coming to North America to play. He's got size... he's really fast and has great hands.

I don't get how we landed him.

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01-05-2010, 06:55 AM
  #122
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I love how a lot of you are putting MPS ahead of Penner on the depth chart.
Seriously? The Oilers aren't going to roll a top line composed of all rookies. I know it's fun to watch the World Juniors and watch Eberle destroy teenagers from Latvia, but he's not going to be that effective in the NHL against grown men. Come on now.

Relying on rookies is what's got us into this mess.

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01-05-2010, 06:59 AM
  #123
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I don't care if Eberle scores a goal a game in the pre-season. He should not be on the starting roster. Give him 20 games in the minors while we decide which Munchkin no longer deserves to be on the Oilers.
See, I've never really agreed with this kind of attitude towards training camp.

Maybe it's antiquated thinking, but I've always believed that the purpose of a training camp was to allow competition for jobs, and to create the best 23 man roster possible. If someone like Eberle comes into the 10/11 camp and blows the doors off and shows that without a doubt he deserves to be mentioned to be among the top 12 forwards on the team, then I think it's only right that he get the opportunity to start the season on the big club. If I were Eberle and was told I wasn't good enough to start the year with the Oilers even after proving I was good enough to make the team right now, I'd be wondering why I bothered even showing up for camp if management's decisions were already pre-ordained...you may as well have sent me to Springfield/Oklahoma/wherever straight away and not wasted my time with empty promises.

And I thought this season was supposed to be the one where we figure out which hockey dwarves are worth keeping and which ones to cull from the herd? What's 20 more games going to matter?

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01-05-2010, 07:00 AM
  #124
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I love how a lot of you are putting MPS ahead of Penner on the depth chart.
Seriously? The Oilers aren't going to roll a top line composed of all rookies. I know it's fun to watch the World Juniors and watch Eberle destroy teenagers from Latvia, but he's not going to be that effective in the NHL against grown men. Come on now.

Relying on rookies is what's got us into this mess.
Totally agree. I am not against having MPS play one more year in the SEL and Eberle spending a season in the AHL. Going season to season without a bigger picture plan would be stupid.

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01-05-2010, 08:12 AM
  #125
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Everyone should hope MPS doesn't spend time in the AHL. Virtually every single successful Swedish player makes the jump directly to the NHL from the SEL. The only exception are marginal players like Sjostrom.

SEL is a much better training ground for Swedish players than the AHL -- I know of almost no exceptions.
Yup. 99% of all the good Swedish players didn't downgrade from the SEL to the AHL. MPS either goes back to Timra or plays in Edmonton.

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