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Old
01-04-2010, 02:57 PM
  #26
Everest
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This is a tricky one.

I think Mark Staal is a grossly underrated player & I would love ot have him anchoring the blueline here for the next 10 years without question.

I've thought about how to go about snagging him this summer.

Its hard to devise a plan that can work.

I don't think its possible to trade for him. There is only the offer sheet alternative and if were drafting in the top 3-5...offer sheets are very hard...almost impossible to justify.

However...if we happen to hold something outside the top 5....I would be thinking hard about pitching a OS for Staal.

Here-in lies the catch-22...Staal won't sign anything less than an eye-popper. The Rangers love the guy. They need him. They've planned to have him long term.

So we can over-pay for Staal...but...ONLY if we have excessive cap space...and we CAN create excessive cap space at the deadline (move Vish+Pisani+Moreau etc etc)...

But if we dumped all that salary...were going to be finishing on the floor...subsequently drafting TOO HIGH to burn the pick in an offer sheet.

So I don't see how it could work out that we could be in a position to go after Staal.

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01-04-2010, 03:11 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
This is a tricky one.

I think Mark Staal is a grossly underrated player & I would love ot have him anchoring the blueline here for the next 10 years without question.

I've thought about how to go about snagging him this summer.

Its hard to devise a plan that can work.

I don't think its possible to trade for him. There is only the offer sheet alternative and if were drafting in the top 3-5...offer sheets are very hard...almost impossible to justify.

However...if we happen to hold something outside the top 5....I would be thinking hard about pitching a OS for Staal.

Here-in lies the catch-22...Staal won't sign anything less than an eye-popper. The Rangers love the guy. They need him. They've planned to have him long term.

So we can over-pay for Staal...but...ONLY if we have excessive cap space...and we CAN create excessive cap space at the deadline (move Vish+Pisani+Moreau etc etc)...

But if we dumped all that salary...were going to be finishing on the floor...subsequently drafting TOO HIGH to burn the pick in an offer sheet.

So I don't see how it could work out that we could be in a position to go after Staal.
They would be getting next years pick not this one.

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01-04-2010, 03:31 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by 40oz View Post
Trade, not offer sheet.
as if the oilers are going to have room for an offer sheet

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01-04-2010, 03:35 PM
  #29
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If you can get M. Staal, you try to do it. I really can't see New York trading him, and I'm pretty sure there aren't many offers they wouldn't match. They're up against the cap, but teams with deep pockets can make space if they have to.

I would have no problem at all with Tambellini sending an offer sheet to Staal, for the record. Especially since next year's draft is projecting to be one of the worst in a very long time.

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01-04-2010, 03:42 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
They would be getting next years pick not this one.
Sorry. Mibad.

If we get THE top pick this year, then you would have to think next years draft begins to become redundant....to the point where an offer sheet does look like a saavy move to make.

Still think we have to make some room for his contract.

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01-04-2010, 03:44 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
Sorry. Mibad.

If we get THE top pick this year, then you would have to think next years draft begins to become redundant....to the point where an offer sheet does look like a saavy move to make.

Still think we have to make some room for his contract.
Shawn Horcoff, welcome to Springfield.

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01-04-2010, 04:36 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Shawn Horcoff, welcome to Springfield.
Why wouldn't the Rags just put Redden in the minors?

New York isn't going to give him up unless you are giving up an insane amount of money for him. At that point in time, the money is better spent elsewhere.

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01-04-2010, 04:41 PM
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Why wouldn't the Rags just put Redden in the minors?

New York isn't going to give him up unless you are giving up an insane amount of money for him. At that point in time, the money is better spent elsewhere.
The Rangers are vulnerable. They have a player we could really use. You would have to overpay to get him but he may grow into the contract much like Penner has. I would say 20 mill over four years would be about right. If they match it is out of our control really.

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01-04-2010, 06:09 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
The Rangers are vulnerable. They have a player we could really use. You would have to overpay to get him but he may grow into the contract much like Penner has. I would say 20 mill over four years would be about right. If they match it is out of our control really.
The thing is, they will match. Staal is the future of that team's defense, and one of the core building blocks of their team.

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01-04-2010, 06:37 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by alexo View Post
I don't think we should shoot ourselves in the foot with another offersheet. Especially to a GM who is a viable trading partner. Maybe if the Rangers can Sather.

But seriously, even then I don't think we should. However, that said, I wouldn't mind trading for him, if that were possible.
After the Lowe/Oilers bashfest after the last OS, the Oilers won't be going the OS route. It was EIG that wanted the OS and not Lowe anyways.

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01-04-2010, 06:42 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Shawn Horcoff, welcome to Springfield.

doesnt horcoff have a NMC?

will check the CBA in a bit and see if NMC guys can be waived, my initial thought is no, but i will check

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01-04-2010, 08:25 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Marc Staal goes rfa this summer. Should we try to trade for him or offer sheet him this summer? I know its Sather but hey, we need a guy like this. The Rangers are up against the cap and are vulnerable. What do you think?
Don't we have a ton of rfas too?
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Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
After the Lowe/Oilers bashfest after the last OS, the Oilers won't be going the OS route. It was EIG that wanted the OS and not Lowe anyways.
I don't know why you are the only person on these boards that believes that.

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01-04-2010, 08:33 PM
  #38
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Don't we have a ton of rfas too?
Yes. Grebs, Gagner, Cogs, JDD, DD, Pouliot, Jacques, Brule, Potulny. Help yourself nhl. We will need some draft picks after offer sheeting Staal.

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01-04-2010, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by myteammytown View Post
doesnt horcoff have a NMC?

will check the CBA in a bit and see if NMC guys can be waived, my initial thought is no, but i will check
Nope. NTC. Pack your bags Shawn. Dont forget your Bugs Bunny pillow for those long bus rides.

http://www.nhlscap.com/no_trade.htm

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01-04-2010, 08:47 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
The Rangers are vulnerable. They have a player we could really use. You would have to overpay to get him but he may grow into the contract much like Penner has. I would say 20 mill over four years would be about right. If they match it is out of our control really.
The Rangers can reduce that vulnerability the same way the Oilers make room... dropping a big contract.

The problem isn't so much if the Rangers match... the problem is if they don't match. Are the Oilers going to be in contention for anything over the next 2-3 years with Staal? Doubtful.

Basically you are paying big bucks over those years to keep him in your system without benefitting much. By the time you are ready to actually benefit from him, he's going to be a UFA, and you essentially just spent 4 years developing a guy to watch him play his best years elsewhere.

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01-04-2010, 08:51 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Nope. NTC. Pack your bags Shawn. Dont forget your Bugs Bunny pillow for those long bus rides.

http://www.nhlscap.com/no_trade.htm
normally i would agree with the findings on that site. problem is, the list is outdated, and i am almost positive horcoff got a NMC for the first couple of years on his deal.


i am trying to go through some archives and have sent some e-mails to try and find out for sure.


not that it matters anyways, there is little chance horcoff goes on waivers. you have a better chance seeing stortini win a beauty contest...

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01-04-2010, 08:58 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
The Rangers can reduce that vulnerability the same way the Oilers make room... dropping a big contract.

The problem isn't so much if the Rangers match... the problem is if they don't match. Are the Oilers going to be in contention for anything over the next 2-3 years with Staal? Doubtful.

Basically you are paying big bucks over those years to keep him in your system without benefitting much. By the time you are ready to actually benefit from him, he's going to be a UFA, and you essentially just spent 4 years developing a guy to watch him play his best years elsewhere.
Sign him to a long term deal then. I think my proposition is fine. We will be a good team in four years. He would be inclined to stay.

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01-04-2010, 09:03 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
The Rangers can reduce that vulnerability the same way the Oilers make room... dropping a big contract.

The problem isn't so much if the Rangers match... the problem is if they don't match. Are the Oilers going to be in contention for anything over the next 2-3 years with Staal? Doubtful.

Basically you are paying big bucks over those years to keep him in your system without benefitting much. By the time you are ready to actually benefit from him, he's going to be a UFA, and you essentially just spent 4 years developing a guy to watch him play his best years elsewhere.

So offer him more than 5 years. Its not rocket science. That said...I think IF the Oilers had an elite D tandem they would be 10 fold a better hockey team....so...ya...it DOES make a giant & instant difference when you add a 25 minute lead horse.

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01-04-2010, 09:07 PM
  #44
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So offer him more than 5 years. Its not rocket science. That said...I think IF the Oilers had an elite D tandem they would be 10 fold a better hockey team....so...ya...it DOES make a giant & instant difference when you add a 25 minute lead horse.
Are you going to get him to give up UFA years for $5mil/season?

So yeah, it sort of is rocket science.

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01-04-2010, 09:08 PM
  #45
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Sign him to a long term deal then. I think my proposition is fine. We will be a good team in four years. He would be inclined to stay.
Why?

We had a pretty good team in 05-06 and players couldn't wait to leave when it was all over.

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01-04-2010, 09:11 PM
  #46
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Why?

We had a pretty good team in 05-06 and players couldn't wait to leave when it was all over.
Not really. We had a team that barely made the playoffs with horrific goaltending that went on an amazing Cinderella run to the finals. Im talking about having a team that is a contender. Playoffs are a given. And he would be a big part of that, a leader with a letter Im sure.

I seem to recall some disharmony with the dressing room and between players and coaches as well with the 06' team. I dont think that was a tight knit team at all. That much is obvious.

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01-04-2010, 09:29 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Not really. We had a team that barely made the playoffs with horrific goaltending that went on an amazing Cinderella run to the finals. Im talking about having a team that is a contender. Playoffs are a given. And he would be a big part of that, a leader with a letter Im sure.
Not really what? That team was a division winning calibre team that got sunk by the worst goaltending the NHL has seen since the 80's. Once they got the goaltending sorted out, there wasn't much that could stop that team (again, aside from the goaltender getting hurt in the finals).

That was far from a cinderella run. That run was full value from that team.

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I seem to recall some disharmony with the dressing room and between players and coaches as well with the 06' team. I dont think that was a tight knit team at all. That much is obvious.
There was some mid season bickering by Peca, but that was about the end of that.

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01-04-2010, 09:30 PM
  #48
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Are you going to get him to give up UFA years for $5mil/season?

So yeah, it sort of is rocket science.
I think he would have a hard time turning down 30-35MM over the next 5 or 6 seasons.

I wasn't wanting to be condescending with the rocket science comment. Its, of course, complicated in as much as getting him to sign here...but what I meant was...its not complicated to identify the basics of what might be an offer worth making.

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01-04-2010, 09:39 PM
  #49
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I think he would have a hard time turning down 30-35MM over the next 5 or 6 seasons.

I wasn't wanting to be condescending with the rocket science comment. Its, of course, complicated in as much as getting him to sign here...but what I meant was...its not complicated to identify the basics of what might be an offer worth making.
But that goes back to whether the Rangers would let him go.

I think your best chance to get him is on a shorter term deal that sees him ending up as a UFA. Tough risk for the Rangers to take and might make them more inclined to take the pick.

Once you start adding more years, that pick has a bit less value (in the overall scenario). It goes from 4 years and potentially losing him while gaining a pick to 6 years and potentially losing him while gaining a pick.

If I'm the Rangers, I jump on anything that's 6 years of length (and around that $$ value). If it's 4 years though, I probably let him walk and take the pick.

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01-04-2010, 09:55 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
But that goes back to whether the Rangers would let him go.

I think your best chance to get him is on a shorter term deal that sees him ending up as a UFA. Tough risk for the Rangers to take and might make them more inclined to take the pick.

Once you start adding more years, that pick has a bit less value (in the overall scenario). It goes from 4 years and potentially losing him while gaining a pick to 6 years and potentially losing him while gaining a pick.

If I'm the Rangers, I jump on anything that's 6 years of length (and around that $$ value). If it's 4 years though, I probably let him walk and take the pick.
Thats always made the most sense but you were saying your concerned the Oilers won't be a winner in that 4 year window.

Like I said though... A guy who plays great for 25-30 minutes/game can make your team a whole lot better in a hurry.

It wouldn't be the same as Pronger's insta-boost in 06' but it really wouldn't be that far off either.

The only thing Staal can't do is run the PP. Everything else he's going to have in his back pocket most nights. He's just now coming of age.

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