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Old
01-07-2010, 05:56 PM
  #26
Marconius
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Thanks for all the info so far people, for someone who's pretty well cell phone ignorant, you've at least given me a jumping off point. I mainly use the phone I have now for calls/texting and haven't really gotten into the whole web browsing & app thing, perhaps that's something to look into though.

The one thing that immediately strikes me as a down side to the whole blackberry/iPhone models is their size. The razr i have now is frustrating for a lot of reasons (dropped calls, cutting out etc), but the one thing I do love about it is how discreetly it just slides into your pants pocket. No bulge, no 'heavy pocket' feeling, just a nice slim fit. To be fair I haven't really carried a blackberry/iPhone type model around, so perhaps it's not as bulky as it looks...

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01-07-2010, 06:06 PM
  #27
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I hate touch screens for typing. Just hate them with a passion. I got the HTC dream (then modded the **** out of it), and it's a great device. Touchscreen navigation and functionality and a qwerty keyboard for typing.

Do yourself a favour and try it out. I know some people say you get used to it, but I've received enough emails and texts from friends on iphones that clearly suggest the opposite.

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01-07-2010, 06:35 PM
  #28
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Ugh cell phones how I hate thee. Nothing more then an electronical leash. Had one, got rid of it, and I couldn't be happier.

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01-07-2010, 06:38 PM
  #29
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I have just a regular cell phone lol, the LG Venus. I like the phone itself, but I have had a zillion issues which may be from Telus not the phone...I don't know.

I downloaded a program that allows me to put my own custom made ringtones on it.

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01-07-2010, 06:53 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius View Post
Thanks for all the info so far people, for someone who's pretty well cell phone ignorant, you've at least given me a jumping off point. I mainly use the phone I have now for calls/texting and haven't really gotten into the whole web browsing & app thing, perhaps that's something to look into though.

The one thing that immediately strikes me as a down side to the whole blackberry/iPhone models is their size. The razr i have now is frustrating for a lot of reasons (dropped calls, cutting out etc), but the one thing I do love about it is how discreetly it just slides into your pants pocket. No bulge, no 'heavy pocket' feeling, just a nice slim fit. To be fair I haven't really carried a blackberry/iPhone type model around, so perhaps it's not as bulky as it looks...
I had a razr for years and loved it. Picked up an iphone. Difference is like night and day. I am now an iphone addict. I was worried about the size as well, but it still slips into my back pocket no problem. The 'browsing and app thing' is incredible. All in all, I can't imagine a better all in one device.

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01-07-2010, 06:59 PM
  #31
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once you go to an iphone youll never go back

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01-07-2010, 09:09 PM
  #32
Baby Nilsson
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
I hate touch screens for typing. Just hate them with a passion. I got the HTC dream (then modded the **** out of it), and it's a great device. Touchscreen navigation and functionality and a qwerty keyboard for typing.

Do yourself a favour and try it out. I know some people say you get used to it, but I've received enough emails and texts from friends on iphones that clearly suggest the opposite.
Try the HTC Hero too. The design is kind of funky though.

Edit: Wait that has no qwerty but the second one will


Last edited by Baby Nilsson: 01-07-2010 at 11:14 PM.
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01-07-2010, 11:09 PM
  #33
Giggli G
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Get a Google Android phone. The Milestone is going to be the best one in Canada for a bit until the Nexus One hits. I own a Mac but I don't like the restrictive practices of Apple with the iPhone so I will avoid supporting them if possible. I think in a few years you will be glad you went with an Android phone, it's market share is increasing quickly and Google has more capability to provide revolutionary applications than any other company in the world. Plus, it is open source so you can do many things with it that Apple is, I think, essentially illegally preventing on the iPhone.

Think about it: Apple doesn't get to decide what you can and cannot install on your Mac OSX computer. Microsoft doesn't get to decide what you can and cannot install on your Windows 7 computer. Why should Apple be allowed to control what applications you can install on your iPhone, and what designers are allowed to create?

The answer is that they shouldn't be able to. the FCC is investigating them right now in the US. We'll see how it unfolds.

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01-07-2010, 11:21 PM
  #34
Giant Moo
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Originally Posted by Giggli G View Post
Get a Google Android phone. The Milestone is going to be the best one in Canada for a bit until the Nexus One hits. I own a Mac but I don't like the restrictive practices of Apple with the iPhone so I will avoid supporting them if possible. I think in a few years you will be glad you went with an Android phone, it's market share is increasing quickly and Google has more capability to provide revolutionary applications than any other company in the world. Plus, it is open source so you can do many things with it that Apple is, I think, essentially illegally preventing on the iPhone.

Think about it: Apple doesn't get to decide what you can and cannot install on your Mac OSX computer. Microsoft doesn't get to decide what you can and cannot install on your Windows 7 computer. Why should Apple be allowed to control what applications you can install on your iPhone, and what designers are allowed to create?

The answer is that they shouldn't be able to. the FCC is investigating them right now in the US. We'll see how it unfolds.
This really drives me nuts.

I think you suffer from a lack of perception here. For decades before Apple rolled in, every cell phone manufacturer in history had an even worse situation. If you wanted to develop a J2ME app, you wouldn't just be looking for approval from Motorola, or Samsung, or LG, or whoever... you'd be looking for approval from each individual carrier, each of which could do whatever they wanted with allowing apps to run on "their phones". That not enough of a PITA? Look at BREW apps -- all of that bureucracy, PLUS the overhead of Qualcomm approval. And they charged THOUSANDS of dollars for access to their cross-compiler. And don't even get me started on the little per-platform or per-carrier bugs that pop up, bugs which were incredibly hard to find.

The whole thing was, quite frankly, ridiculous. And it still is. Which is why I can't see myself ever doing J2ME or BREW dev (unless the price is right).

So to say that Apple is somehow "restricting the creativity" of developers -- or whatever language you want -- is really misleading. Developing for the iPhone is one of the best experiences a developer can have. Sure, Apple restricts certain API calls, and has a rather opaque approval process -- both of which I've been complaining about myself -- but they are not some kind of tyrannical force conspiring to suck creative mind grape juice out of the poor developers out there.

The reason for the approval process, and why I'm glad it's there, is to maintain some kind of quality control over the apps available, not to mention putting some responsibility back on themselves for limiting the creation of viruses or other types of malware. When's the last time you saw Microsoft take preemptive action about virus propagation on Windows?

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01-07-2010, 11:40 PM
  #35
Giggli G
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
This really drives me nuts.

I think you suffer from a lack of perception here. For decades before Apple rolled in, every cell phone manufacturer in history had an even worse situation. If you wanted to develop a J2ME app, you wouldn't just be looking for approval from Motorola, or Samsung, or LG, or whoever... you'd be looking for approval from each individual carrier, each of which could do whatever they wanted with allowing apps to run on "their phones". That not enough of a PITA? Look at BREW apps -- all of that bureucracy, PLUS the overhead of Qualcomm approval. And they charged THOUSANDS of dollars for access to their cross-compiler. And don't even get me started on the little per-platform or per-carrier bugs that pop up, bugs which were incredibly hard to find.

The whole thing was, quite frankly, ridiculous. And it still is. Which is why I can't see myself ever doing J2ME or BREW dev (unless the price is right).

So to say that Apple is somehow "restricting the creativity" of developers -- or whatever language you want -- is really misleading. Developing for the iPhone is one of the best experiences a developer can have. Sure, Apple restricts certain API calls, and has a rather opaque approval process -- both of which I've been complaining about myself -- but they are not some kind of tyrannical force conspiring to suck creative mind grape juice out of the poor developers out there.

The reason for the approval process, and why I'm glad it's there, is to maintain some kind of quality control over the apps available, not to mention putting some responsibility back on themselves for limiting the creation of viruses or other types of malware. When's the last time you saw Microsoft take preemptive action about virus propagation on Windows?
I am well aware that Apple has provided great opportunities to developers as well as great sets of tools for development. I am actually an Apple Developer Connection member so I have access to those tools for Macs. However, I think the rise of the smartphone and the possibility/necessity for a wide range of applications is what drove the change in developing restrictiveness, not Apple. If you look, Microsoft has been offering a much more open system in Windows Mobile for the past while than Apple does, it is just that the platform is, almost inherently, inferior.

The annoying thing about Apple defenders is that many have been attributing inventions or ingenuity to Apple for years when they have largely been taking from other corporations (Microsoft, Creative, etc.). In reality, especially for hardware, Apple is merely a master of copying other ingenuity, refining it slightly and making it "cool." In the same way, Nokia revolutionized the smartphone more than anyone else, but Apple gets all the credit for it because of their mindshare, and admittedly a very cohesive device in the iPhone.

TBH, the app approval process is ridiculous if you have heard some of the stories about it, especially considering all the effort put in by the developers and the lack of explanation for the rejections. Incredibly useful consumer apps from Google have been rejected mostly to protect AT&T from having to modernize its network.

My point is that it is a monopolistic system where Apple acts as a regulator, and it shouldn't be that way. Monopolistic control is bad for the consumer in general.

Google offers an open-source solution that will ultimately be better for the consumer and developers because it maximizes freedom.

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01-07-2010, 11:45 PM
  #36
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Apple is nefarious for locking down software and hardware. want to output your iphone/ipod's videos to your tv? you have to buy a $70 cable to do so because apple decided to throw an encryption chip inside them. Hate using itunes for managing your media? tough luck. All this in the name of ensuring quality. Yes the iphone does offer a so far unparalleled media experience, but apples business practices although good for apple are anti competitive and hurt the customer. iphone customers will have to spend more on their phone through accessories and apps then any other phone. I am a huge supporter of the Android platform not only because it is not specific to 1 handset manufacturer but also because it is open source. the possibilities are endless. there is a reason linux has been gaining marketshare every year. open source is the way to go. Either wait for the motorola milestone (droid) on telus or if you want to switch to wind then grab the Nexus one from ebay and sign up with them. But this is just my opinion based on years and years in the telecom industry.

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01-08-2010, 12:23 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Marconius View Post
Thanks for all the info so far people, for someone who's pretty well cell phone ignorant, you've at least given me a jumping off point. I mainly use the phone I have now for calls/texting and haven't really gotten into the whole web browsing & app thing, perhaps that's something to look into though.

The one thing that immediately strikes me as a down side to the whole blackberry/iPhone models is their size. The razr i have now is frustrating for a lot of reasons (dropped calls, cutting out etc), but the one thing I do love about it is how discreetly it just slides into your pants pocket. No bulge, no 'heavy pocket' feeling, just a nice slim fit. To be fair I haven't really carried a blackberry/iPhone type model around, so perhaps it's not as bulky as it looks...
You'd get used to it, I'm sure. When I was shopping for a new phone, a few months back I wanted as slim as possible (I used to have a razr like you). I ended up settling for the Palm Pre (which is an excellent phone if you do want to try the web/app thing), which isn't very slim, and I hardly notice the difference. I'm pretty sure iphones might actaully be slimmer than most older razr's actually. Some Blackberry models are only slightly thicker as well, I think. They'll obviously be taller and wider, but it's not enough to give a 'heavy pocket' feeling, I don't think.

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01-08-2010, 01:09 AM
  #38
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If you like Motorola and don't mind Telus, the Motorola Milestone is the Canadian version of the Droid with a few changes. If you are thinking android for your next phone, as many are these days, that is the one I would target. It should be out fairly soon, In the next few weeks, would be my guess.

Of course there is also Nexus One, the Google web phone, but it is US only at the moment. No word on a Canadian release or partner yet, that I am aware of(ebay does have some if you want to go this route). Of course it doesn't have a slide out keyboard like the Milestone, but (assuming the Can one = the US one) it does have speech to txt abilities which is awesome, and I think turn by turn navigation.

And of course there is always the iPhone. Or the Palm Pre. And Blackberries are king of the business world
I've got the droid and have been very impressed with it. If you go google, make sure you get a phone that runs at least Android v2.0. It's a much faster operating system.

Also keep in mind that within a few months your phone is going to be antiquated so be prepared for that

One advantage to the iphone will be the Apple tablet which is on it's way. If you are an Apple guy and have a MAC it's probably going to be easier with you to stick with the iphone. If not, go with a phone that uses Android 2.0 or greater.

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01-08-2010, 01:11 AM
  #39
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Had a blackberry curve, it was good but it only took about 6 months for it to start falling apart. Now I have an HTC Dream and I love it, but I've only had it for a month so I won't be surprised if it, too, falls apart soon enough.

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01-08-2010, 01:13 AM
  #40
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Get a Blackberry. Rogers sucks and so does their coverage.

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01-08-2010, 01:26 AM
  #41
Giant Moo
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Originally Posted by Giggli G View Post
My point is that it is a monopolistic system where Apple acts as a regulator, and it shouldn't be that way. Monopolistic control is bad for the consumer in general.


Monopoly... I do not this word means what you think it means.

Quote:
Google offers an open-source solution that will ultimately be better for the consumer and developers because it maximizes freedom.
This is a rather vague statement with a on obvious emotional push behind it, especially the "maximizes freedom" bit.

I've used plenty of open-source software and libraries to do my iPhone development. I also have the maximal freedom to not develop on the iPhone as much as you have maximal freedom to not buy one.

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01-08-2010, 01:34 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post


Monopoly... I do not this word means what you think it means.



This is a rather vague statement with a on obvious emotional push behind it, especially the "maximizes freedom" bit.

I've used plenty of open-source software and libraries to do my iPhone development. I also have the maximal freedom to not develop on the iPhone as much as you have maximal freedom to not buy one.
So you are saying that you enjoy the freedom afforded you by utilizing open source software? ;P

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01-08-2010, 01:38 AM
  #43
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I run my own business and my I phone does everything i need it to do. Everything from phone calls to e-mail to millage logs to note to music and photos to gps maps and internet.

I would recommend the I phone.

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01-08-2010, 02:02 AM
  #44
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The only phone I need is a worldwide GSM one that can accept SIM cards wherever I go. It would be unlocked so I rather buy abroad where there is far more variety and cheaper.

I don't need all the other extras like mp3 player, camera, WI-FI GPS etc. For me a simple phone that an also text message is ok.

I will only use it in countries with a pay as you go plan.

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01-08-2010, 03:01 PM
  #45
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I agree with some of the complaints in this thread about Apple


However, just buy an iphone and jailbreak it. The only problem with the iphone is the restrictions the Apple regime placed on it. Jailbreak it and you're set

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01-08-2010, 03:10 PM
  #46
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I have a Blackberry 9700 and am very happy with it. If you do not want to spend the money on that phone I would reccomend a Tour for you. Biggest upgrade with the 9700 is that it has wifi and the trackpad instead of the trackball. In fact I think it is the only blackberry that has wifi if you are a telus/ bell customer unless the storm 2 has wifi.

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01-08-2010, 05:27 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggli G View Post
Get a Google Android phone. The Milestone is going to be the best one in Canada for a bit until the Nexus One hits. I own a Mac but I don't like the restrictive practices of Apple with the iPhone so I will avoid supporting them if possible. I think in a few years you will be glad you went with an Android phone, it's market share is increasing quickly and Google has more capability to provide revolutionary applications than any other company in the world. Plus, it is open source so you can do many things with it that Apple is, I think, essentially illegally preventing on the iPhone.

Think about it: Apple doesn't get to decide what you can and cannot install on your Mac OSX computer. Microsoft doesn't get to decide what you can and cannot install on your Windows 7 computer. Why should Apple be allowed to control what applications you can install on your iPhone, and what designers are allowed to create?

The answer is that they shouldn't be able to. the FCC is investigating them right now in the US. We'll see how it unfolds.
In fairness, it really is the only way to ensure that bad apps don't get into the marketplace. The do need the lengthy process of elimination to identify problems. There are already iphone maleware apps out there targetting jailbroken phones (the ones able to download apps from outside the market place).

While I agree that part of their rejection process is stupid (for instance, they are very strict with their HIG protocols in some instances, but not in others), but the need for the approval process is very necessary.

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01-08-2010, 05:36 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post


Monopoly... I do not this word means what you think it means.



This is a rather vague statement with a on obvious emotional push behind it, especially the "maximizes freedom" bit.

I've used plenty of open-source software and libraries to do my iPhone development. I also have the maximal freedom to not develop on the iPhone as much as you have maximal freedom to not buy one.
I never said monopoly, I said monopolistic control, which is certainly true in the same way that a government has monopolistic control over the legitimate application of force in its sovereign territory. The idea of a monopoly over access is a widely used idea in intellectual property law. It doesn't merely refer to an economic circumstance. I appreciate that you are trying to make me look dumb but it isn't really working.

The comment about freedom might seem vague but it is, in my opinion, true. In order to understand where I am coming from you might want to read the Wikipedia article on Richard Stallman, the creator of the GNU system (and thus a major part of Linux) whose views I largely identify with. The Iphone is very bad for restricting freedom, to the point where Steve Jobs has even stated that jailbreaking the iPhone is illegal. (which is probably not true but regardless is ridiculous, you own the phone and should have complete dominion over it).

I agree that we have the freedom not to buy the iPhone. That is why I am encouraging others not to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
In fairness, it really is the only way to ensure that bad apps don't get into the marketplace. The do need the lengthy process of elimination to identify problems. There are already iphone maleware apps out there targetting jailbroken phones (the ones able to download apps from outside the market place).

While I agree that part of their rejection process is stupid (for instance, they are very strict with their HIG protocols in some instances, but not in others), but the need for the approval process is very necessary.


Not sure if by 'bad apps' you mean just crappy software or only the malware you subsequently mention. If I were them, I wouldn't remove the approval process entirely; I would still keep the app store and make a better approval process, but I would open up an alternative non-Apple-sanctioned option. I.e., I would provide the option to open up the device (a legit jailbreak) to all open-source apps with a disclaimer about the potential issues arising. Apple doesn't do this because they want to retain control over the consumer rather than allow the consumer to choose. Certainly they are not the only culprit of this but they have made a lot of mistakes as of late (esp. with Google).

A lot of it comes down to Apple wanting to provide an integrated system that 'just works', which has worked for them in the past and, as you say, necessitates some control over apps. I can understand why Apple is doing this, I just can't understand some of their vague rejections and I think that the method is bad for the consumer. Yet, only power users or people that consider issues of freedom in software will really think about this...


Last edited by Giggli G: 01-08-2010 at 05:44 PM.
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01-08-2010, 06:00 PM
  #49
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Hold out a couple more months and this badboy can be all yours...exclusively on Rogers which sucks, but hey, this phone will DESTROY all others
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/r...as-a-canadian/

Just a few notes about this
-8mp camera
-touch screen
-android platform
-1ghz (YES!! I said GIGAHERTZ!) snapdragon processor
THe only immediate issue I see here is that it will ship with an older version of android. Rogers users with the dream know all about how Rogers said they would not be updating, but as of yesterday, Rogers confirmed that they would be updating those. So I'm pretty sure before summer all these phones will be running on the new android build.

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01-08-2010, 06:06 PM
  #50
s7ark
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Originally Posted by BandwagonBasher View Post
Hold out a couple more months and this badboy can be all yours...exclusively on Rogers which sucks, but hey, this phone will DESTROY all others
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/r...as-a-canadian/

Just a few notes about this
-8mp camera
-touch screen
-android platform
-1ghz (YES!! I said GIGAHERTZ!) snapdragon processor
THe only immediate issue I see here is that it will ship with an older version of android. Rogers users with the dream know all about how Rogers said they would not be updating, but as of yesterday, Rogers confirmed that they would be updating those. So I'm pretty sure before summer all these phones will be running on the new android build.
Doesn't Nexus One have a 1ghz snapdragon too? And it has the latest version of android

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