HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Hecht/Connolly/Pommer

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-25-2010, 02:58 PM
  #76
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 36,699
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
interesting in that same span Roy has only 4 pts, including 3 secondary assists and 1 PP goal...
Vanek has picked it up a bit on the PP with 1g 2a 3pts in that span.

joshjull is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2010, 02:59 PM
  #77
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 57,221
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
interesting in that same span Roy has only 4 pts, including 3 secondary assists and 1 PP goal...
Vanek has to get Vanek's game in order. Just like Connolly had to get Connolly's game in order and now Roy has to get Roy's game in order.

It seems Vanek may be getting himself right. That would be key, since it looks like Miller is starting to make some fatigue mistakes. They're going to need the goals...

__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
Chainshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2010, 03:02 PM
  #78
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 36,699
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Vanek has to get Vanek's game in order. Just like Connolly had to get Connolly's game in order and now Roy has to get Roy's game in order.

It seems Vanek may be getting himself right. That would be key, since it looks like Miller is starting to make some fatigue mistakes. They're going to need the goals...
Bingo.

joshjull is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2010, 03:16 PM
  #79
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 11,502
vCash: 500
When Vanek/Kennedy/Grier was at its height it was on their ability to win a battle down low and get the puck to the net with both Grier and Vanek around the cage. Unfortunately, it's hard to do the whole zone pressure thing when Kennedy is so bad at faceoffs and when he stopped winning battles down low, the line took a pretty big nosedive and got broken up.

Anyway, a better playmaking winger might help Vanek, but it's pretty obvious that it would help Vanek in spite of Roy and an old dude like Whitney wouldn't help the long-term situation of Roy/Vanek not having chemistry.

The long term best thing for Vanek would be a center like Brule, Dubinsky etc. Young, physical, good down low and on faceoffs, especially since the Sabres aren't getting Getzlaf or Thornton, big guys who could constantly feed Vanek across the crease.

struckbyaparkedcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2010, 03:19 PM
  #80
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 36,832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
When Vanek/Kennedy/Grier was at its height it was on their ability to win a battle down low and get the puck to the net with both Grier and Vanek around the cage. Unfortunately, it's hard to do the whole zone pressure thing when Kennedy is so bad at faceoffs and when he stopped winning battles down low, the line took a pretty big nosedive and got broken up.

Anyway, a better playmaking winger might help Vanek, but it's pretty obvious that it would help Vanek in spite of Roy and an old dude like Whitney wouldn't help the long-term situation of Roy/Vanek not having chemistry.

The long term best thing for Vanek would be a center like Brule, Dubinsky etc. Young, physical, good down low and on faceoffs, especially since the Sabres aren't getting Getzlaf or Thornton, big guys who could constantly feed Vanek across the crease.
Vanek would score 100 goals with Thornton as his center

Jame is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2010, 03:21 PM
  #81
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 36,832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Vanek has to get Vanek's game in order. Just like Connolly had to get Connolly's game in order and now Roy has to get Roy's game in order.

It seems Vanek may be getting himself right. That would be key, since it looks like Miller is starting to make some fatigue mistakes. They're going to need the goals...
I actually agree completely. I just happen to believe there games would be in immediate better order NOT playing with each other.

However, are complete lack of depth at center makes it hard to work a LU without Van-Roy pair, especially with HCP playing out of their minds...

and that's where Saku Koivu comes in...

Jame is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2010, 03:26 PM
  #82
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 36,699
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I actually agree completely. I just happen to believe there games would be in immediate better order NOT playing with each other.

However, are complete lack of depth at center makes it hard to work a LU without Van-Roy pair, especially with HCP playing out of their minds...

and that's where Saku Koivu comes in...
You had me with you until the bolded.

Its not going to happen so its not a solution.


A simple flip of Mac and Vanek at this point might do the trick until trade may add other options.

joshjull is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2010, 04:06 PM
  #83
HockeyH3aven
#Flynnsanity
 
HockeyH3aven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Buffalo NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,221
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
contradiction?

Vanek doesnt score on breakaways.

His lack of production simply comes from a lack of his linemates to get pucks to the net in puck possession/forechecking ways. It doesn't help that Roy is a risk taker, poor decision maker... and Stafford's effort is questionable on any given shift.

Vanek is flawed in many ways (awful skater, which makes many aspects of his overall game very weak), but can still pot 40 goals with ease if he was used properly.
No it was not a contradiction. Roy and Stafford are always trying to carry the puck up ice and into the neutral zone by themselves and this results in a lot of turnovers. Vanek just adds fuel to that fire because even if they try to give him the puck he tries to get rid of it immediately.

If you were to look back at every breakaway goal the Sabres have scored in the last 3 years, I'd put money that Vanek has at least twice as many more than anybody else. Especially with last year, Lindy would have Vanek goal hang in the neutral zone (even on the PK) and then catch the other team changing with a breakaway.

He isn't scoring on breakaways this year, mostly because Lindy changed up the way the team plays and he doesn't let Vanek hang around in the neutral zone waiting for a pass.

HockeyH3aven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2010, 05:06 PM
  #84
TheKingPin
Registered User
 
TheKingPin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,510
vCash: 500
Good to see Connolly finally playing a full year and showing what he can do. Ive always had him on my fantasy team. Also added Hecht for the ride haha. Good luck the rest of the way.

TheKingPin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2010, 05:49 PM
  #85
SECRET SQUIRREL
Registered User
 
SECRET SQUIRREL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Clarence
Country: Ireland
Posts: 1,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalowing88 View Post
Everyone on this board has been wrong here in some circumstance or another...but realistically, aside from myself, Jame, and KPatterson, I havent seen a lot of realistic assessments of Roy this season. He's garbage at this point and I'm just not going to believe otherwise. Is he talented? Sure. But, honestly, losing Max and keeping him may be a detriment to the team at this point. The NHL is shifting back to its pre lockout ways and a guy like Roy is going to wind up mediocre. It's not that he's small, it's that he has no nose for the net. His arms are far too small to pull off half the moves he tries to make and his game has become too complicated. I honestly think Roy's never going to sniff his career highs again. He's a 50-60 point player in this league tops and hes the most valuable trade chip we have right now.
Dont forget about me I have called Roy out on numerous occasions, even when he was putting up points. Its time to move him while he still has value.

SECRET SQUIRREL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2010, 06:02 PM
  #86
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 36,832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpatterson14206 View Post
No it was not a contradiction. Roy and Stafford are always trying to carry the puck up ice and into the neutral zone by themselves and this results in a lot of turnovers. Vanek just adds fuel to that fire because even if they try to give him the puck he tries to get rid of it immediately.

If you were to look back at every breakaway goal the Sabres have scored in the last 3 years, I'd put money that Vanek has at least twice as many more than anybody else. Especially with last year, Lindy would have Vanek goal hang in the neutral zone (even on the PK) and then catch the other team changing with a breakaway.

He isn't scoring on breakaways this year, mostly because Lindy changed up the way the team plays and he doesn't let Vanek hang around in the neutral zone waiting for a pass.
um... i'll take that bet. Vanek doesnt get breakaways often... and isn't very good at them either... look out his ugly shootout stats.

Jame is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2010, 03:18 AM
  #87
SECRET SQUIRREL
Registered User
 
SECRET SQUIRREL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Clarence
Country: Ireland
Posts: 1,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
i think you are absolutely blind and a total hypocrit...

"Stafford has played inconsistantly and ineffectively with almost ever center in this lineup. Who his center is is not the problem. The problem is with Stafford."

then this...

"Btw Stafford has played some good hockey with Roy as his center just not with Vanek as the other winger"

that's a pure example of personal bias. I turn it into a Roy thing, and you immediately have to defend Roy, and bash Vanek (its what we do, don't think you are any different), not noticing you contradict yourself in a matter of minutes...

There is a post on the trade board... i'd do it in a heartbeat.

Langkow AND Backlund
for
Roy

Langkow is signed for 3 more seasons with a 4.5 cap hit, but a 4.25 salary. He'll make LESS then Roy in the last two seasons of his deal. His an older veteran, but not yet over the hill, as a comparison to Whitney is not crazy since in the same manner, Langkow continues to perform at the same level. His production is darn similar to Roy's over the last 4 seasons. He's better defensively, protects the puck a lot better, and uses his linemates. He fits the ssytem.

On top of it, the Sabres get a near NHL ready high end Center prospect. Someone who could be ready to replace Connolly in a year or two. and a former teammate of Tyler Myers no less...

Could you turn that deal down?

edit:
Roy and Vanek's numbers are down because Roy doesn't fit the new system, can't get vanek the puck around the net, and they both suffer offensively because of it.

Vanek fits the system. He works down low and battles in front of the net... it's Roy's game that does not match that skill or the current puck possession system. Roy needs to ATTACK on the rush, while the system is built to wear down the opponent and create offensive zone opportunities while maintaining possession and defensive responsibilities
Yes please!

SECRET SQUIRREL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2010, 09:58 AM
  #88
jflory81
Garbo is coming
 
jflory81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 21,597
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to jflory81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Vanek has to get Vanek's game in order. Just like Connolly had to get Connolly's game in order and now Roy has to get Roy's game in order.

It seems Vanek may be getting himself right. That would be key, since it looks like Miller is starting to make some fatigue mistakes. They're going to need the goals...
I wonder how much of Vanek's wrapping around his wrist/hand (seen during the 1st of the VAN game, I think) are affecting his precision with his deflections. That's an extremely delicate thing, and a large part of where a lot of his offense comes from. Even in the game people were saying he was invisible, he had a chance at potting deflections 3 or 4 times.

He's playing good hockey, his best attribute just seems to be comprimised right now.

jflory81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2010, 10:01 AM
  #89
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 57,221
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
I wonder how much of Vanek's wrapping around his wrist/hand (seen during the 1st of the VAN game, I think) are affecting his precision with his deflections. That's an extremely delicate thing, and a large part of where a lot of his offense comes from. Even in the game people were saying he was invisible, he had a chance at potting deflections 3 or 4 times.

He's playing good hockey, his best attribute just seems to be comprimised right now.
It's the same thing I noticed a few weeks back in one of his post-game interviews and it looked like an ace bandage.

Chainshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2010, 10:06 AM
  #90
jflory81
Garbo is coming
 
jflory81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 21,597
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to jflory81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
It's the same thing I noticed a few weeks back in one of his post-game interviews and it looked like an ace bandage.
Yeah, I remember that. One thing's for sure, it's still there.

Vanek's a tough guy. He'll play through anything. He seems to be learning what it takes to at the very least hold his own out there and not be a liability when he's not scoring. If he can translate that to...say....next year, when he's healthy, he'll earn that contract yet.

jflory81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2010, 10:16 AM
  #91
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 57,221
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
Yeah, I remember that. One thing's for sure, it's still there.

Vanek's a tough guy. He'll play through anything. He seems to be learning what it takes to at the very least hold his own out there and not be a liability when he's not scoring. If he can translate that to...say....next year, when he's healthy, he'll earn that contract yet.

He may be feeling better/getting healthier/coping better since last night was goal 4 in the last 8, and 9th point in 9 games. Given him heating up, it may be that he's now not the focus of teams as much defensively and that the powerplay has had a revival since the coaching change. The Hecht-Connolly-Pominville line may have a ripple effect on Vanek's production if they are drawing the better defense pairings or more checking consideration on the road.

Chainshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2010, 10:21 AM
  #92
jflory81
Garbo is coming
 
jflory81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 21,597
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to jflory81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
He may be feeling better/getting healthier/coping better since last night was goal 4 in the last 8, and 9th point in 9 games. Given him heating up, it may be that he's now not the focus of teams as much defensively and that the powerplay has had a revival since the coaching change. The Hecht-Connolly-Pominville line may have a ripple effect on Vanek's production if they are drawing the better defense pairings or more checking consideration on the road.
I don't know if it's much of a difference at ES (see his career numbers at ES) but a healthy Vanek with outside threats would certainly boost this team's, well, lackluster PP.

Although, on that note (sorry, I'm straying here), the Sabres posession on their PP's HAS to get better. More often than not when the Sabres are buzzing early, their PP gives the OTHER team a chance to steady their feet and get some momentum going.....that goes back to the team need of PP pointman.

jflory81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2010, 10:49 AM
  #93
buffalowing88
Registered User
 
buffalowing88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpatterson14206 View Post
No it was not a contradiction. Roy and Stafford are always trying to carry the puck up ice and into the neutral zone by themselves and this results in a lot of turnovers. Vanek just adds fuel to that fire because even if they try to give him the puck he tries to get rid of it immediately.

If you were to look back at every breakaway goal the Sabres have scored in the last 3 years, I'd put money that Vanek has at least twice as many more than anybody else. Especially with last year, Lindy would have Vanek goal hang in the neutral zone (even on the PK) and then catch the other team changing with a breakaway.

He isn't scoring on breakaways this year, mostly because Lindy changed up the way the team plays and he doesn't let Vanek hang around in the neutral zone waiting for a pass.
See this is where it gets tricky. I think the Sabres need players to carry the puck up the ice and go right to the net or throw the puck on net. Most of the time we are seeing defensemen make poor transition passes to forwards who than try and make a 2nd pass while in the neutral zone. This never works. I almost miss Max because at least he'd get in into the offensive zone before coughing it up.

Now that being said, theres a difference between carrying the puck into the offensive zone as efficiently as possible, and what Derek Roy does. His end goal when he gets the puck doesent seem to be playing a North-South style and taking it right towards the net. He's busy trying to dipsy doodle along and with his limited stature, thats just not going to happen.

I just don't think making the pass is always the right solution, especially in the neutral zone. If a guy can take it in by himself, I encourage this, as long as he's not making it harder than he needs to be. I think that's my favorite thing about Myers. He isnt content to make a crap pass through the neutral zone, he skates straight to the net and tries to make something happen.

buffalowing88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2010, 10:55 AM
  #94
jflory81
Garbo is coming
 
jflory81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 21,597
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to jflory81
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalowing88 View Post
See this is where it gets tricky. I think the Sabres need players to carry the puck up the ice and go right to the net or throw the puck on net. Most of the time we are seeing defensemen make poor transition passes to forwards who than try and make a 2nd pass while in the neutral zone. This never works. I almost miss Max because at least he'd get in into the offensive zone before coughing it up.

Now that being said, theres a difference between carrying the puck into the offensive zone as efficiently as possible, and what Derek Roy does. His end goal when he gets the puck doesent seem to be playing a North-South style and taking it right towards the net. He's busy trying to dipsy doodle along and with his limited stature, thats just not going to happen.

I just don't think making the pass is always the right solution, especially in the neutral zone. If a guy can take it in by himself, I encourage this, as long as he's not making it harder than he needs to be. I think that's my favorite thing about Myers. He isnt content to make a crap pass through the neutral zone, he skates straight to the net and tries to make something happen.
If you're on the wrong side of center, and you've got a forward streaking through the neutral zone, it not only does work, but it's often what's planned, particularly if you're caught standing still.

Roy hasn't been good offensively (and giving the puck away in the offensive half), but his play in the back half of the ice I haven't found a thing to complain about.

jflory81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2010, 01:41 PM
  #95
buffalowing88
Registered User
 
buffalowing88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
If you're on the wrong side of center, and you've got a forward streaking through the neutral zone, it not only does work, but it's often what's planned, particularly if you're caught standing still.

Roy hasn't been good offensively (and giving the puck away in the offensive half), but his play in the back half of the ice I haven't found a thing to complain about.
I havent seen it work consistently enough with this team to promote doing that. Either our forwards are too weak on the puck or our defensemen are making ineffective passes.

buffalowing88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2010, 02:29 PM
  #96
jflory81
Garbo is coming
 
jflory81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 21,597
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to jflory81
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalowing88 View Post
I havent seen it work consistently enough with this team to promote doing that. Either our forwards are too weak on the puck or our defensemen are making ineffective passes.
I think we're talking about completely different things.

I think Roy has been really good on his own side of center getting rid of the puck when he's caught standing still to a defenseman or forward who is going forward. I think he's done a terrible job with too much stickhandling or stupid passes to other (covered) forwards or defenseman on the offensive half of center, when he should really just be pounding the puck into the defensive zone.

Was the 2nd half of that what you were getting at?

jflory81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2010, 12:00 AM
  #97
buffalowing88
Registered User
 
buffalowing88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
I think we're talking about completely different things.

I think Roy has been really good on his own side of center getting rid of the puck when he's caught standing still to a defenseman or forward who is going forward. I think he's done a terrible job with too much stickhandling or stupid passes to other (covered) forwards or defenseman on the offensive half of center, when he should really just be pounding the puck into the defensive zone.

Was the 2nd half of that what you were getting at?
Gotcha...I see what you're saying now. Yeah, I agree with that assessment, I was just coming from a different perspective and didn't realize what you meant initially.

buffalowing88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2010, 08:10 AM
  #98
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 57,221
vCash: 500
Awards:
Pom's has cooled a bit with no points in the last three, but he's still shooting. I get the impression that Ruff has told him to shoot, shoot from everywhere, and just keep shooting. In the 14 games since the turn of the New Year, he's been held shotless once -- against the Devils -- and to only 1 shot once -- against the Thrashers on New Years Day. The other twelve games, he's been credited with at least three shots on goal every game. Can't fault him for not putting rubber on net.

Chainshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-23-2010, 01:48 PM
  #99
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 36,699
vCash: 500
Well I think its now safe to say they are a solid two way top 6 line.



They've been together for 34 games now (since 12/27 -vs- St.Louis)

In those 34 games together

Pommer
ES ---> 7g 13a 20pts
PP ---> 5g 4a 9pts
Total -> 12g 17a 29pts +10

Hecht
ES ---> 13g 11a 24pts
PP ---> 1g 0a 1pt
Total -> 14g 11a 25pts +15

Connolly
ES ---> 5g 20a 25pts
PP ---> 3g 10a 13pts
SH ---> 1g 0a 1pt
Total -> 9g 30a 39pts +11


Imagine what numbers they could put up playing like this for a full season. We will likely find out next year.

joshjull is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-23-2010, 01:50 PM
  #100
jflory81
Garbo is coming
 
jflory81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 21,597
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to jflory81
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Well I think its now safe to say they are a solid two way top 6 line.



They've been together for 34 games now (since 12/27 -vs- St.Louis)

In those 34 games together

Pommer
ES ---> 7g 13a 20pts
PP ---> 5g 4a 9pts
Total -> 12g 17a 29pts +10

Hecht
ES ---> 13g 11a 24pts
PP ---> 1g 0a 1pt
Total -> 14g 11a 25pts +15

Connolly
ES ---> 5g 20a 25pts
PP ---> 3g 10a 13pts
SH ---> 1g 0a 1pt
Total -> 9g 30a 39pts +11


Imagine what numbers they could put up playing like this for a full season. We will likely find out next year.
You know what I take out of this.....?


HECHT IS A POTENTIAL 30 GOAL SCORER OMG!!!!!!!!



jflory81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:05 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.