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Would Brodeur be a HOF Goalie Without the Devils?

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Old
01-08-2010, 03:42 PM
  #1
Wario Lemieux*
 
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Would Brodeur be a HOF Goalie Without the Devils?

The Devils pretty much invented the trap and have used it throughout the career of Brodeur, which in turn has led to a lot of success for him.

For example, Roloson, Fernandez, and now Backstrom have faded without the defensive system Lemaire employed in Minnesota. Would Brodeur still be a HOF goalie if he spent his career playing on a run and gun team like Atlanta?

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01-08-2010, 03:43 PM
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Doctor No
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Yes.

And the trap was developed and used long before the New Jersey Devils started using it.

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01-08-2010, 03:43 PM
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Who knows?

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01-08-2010, 03:44 PM
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bishop12
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Yea I think he would be. Altho he wouldn't have all those records, cups and etc.

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01-08-2010, 03:45 PM
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Brodeur's proved over the years that despite whatever cast of characters are in front of him or who is running the ship behind the bench, when you take away all the elements that compose the Devils you're left with Marty, and that's enough to win.

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01-08-2010, 03:46 PM
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From my understanding the trap was an offensive steategy when it was first implemented by a coach in a European league but the Devils flipped it around to trap the puck out of their zone instead of trap it in the offensive zone.

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01-08-2010, 03:47 PM
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The Devils did NOT invent the Trap, and yes he would have. Seriously, how many threads do you have to start a day.

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01-08-2010, 03:47 PM
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Doctor No
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wario Lemieux View Post
From my understanding the trap was an offensive steategy when it was first implemented by a coach in a European league but the Devils flipped it around to trap the puck out of their zone instead of trap it in the offensive zone.
Bob Johnson's Flames were trapping in the early 1980s. And they weren't the first, either.

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01-08-2010, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJT View Post
Brodeur's proved over the years that despite whatever cast of characters are in front of him or who is running the ship behind the bench, when you take away all the elements that compose the Devils you're left with Marty, and that's enough to win.
Good points but put Marty on some of those early 90s Sens teams or any other expansion teams and hes only good not great imho.

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01-08-2010, 03:51 PM
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I know the Devils wouldn't have 3 Cups without him.

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01-08-2010, 03:52 PM
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DownFromNJ
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The Devils have been great over the past two decades for a lot of reasons. The #1 reason is Martin Brodeur. The Stevens, Elias', Niedermayers, Parises, and others come and go. Brodeur has been the only constant.

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01-08-2010, 03:53 PM
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There's already like ten threads debating this.

I think it's hard to say. It's obvious his numbers are padded by New Jersey's defensive style. But that doesn't mean he'd be bad without it. One thing he has going for him is endurance. Maybe New Jersey's defense made his wins and GAA higher than they would have been, but he had to be starting the inhuman number of games year in and year out to collect them. He's somewhat better than his save percentages because of his endurance and because of his stickhandling/shotprevention. He's still a great goalie.

The other question is whether he'd be in the best of all time discussion without the trap. I don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownFromNJ View Post
The Devils have been great over the past two decades for a lot of reasons. The #1 reason is Martin Brodeur. The Stevens, Elias', Niedermayers, Parises, and others come and go. Brodeur has been the only constant.
They haven't won a cup since the HOF defenseman left.

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01-08-2010, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg Zeppelin View Post
Who knows?
agree with this, Clemmensson had real good number too last year with New Jersey and now that he left he's not that good anymore ...

Ok, Brodeur is better than Clemmensson, but is he one of the best of all time ?

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01-08-2010, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by DownFromNJ View Post
The Devils have been great over the past two decades for a lot of reasons. The #1 reason is Martin Brodeur. The Stevens, Elias', Niedermayers, Parises, and others come and go. Brodeur has been the only constant.
But the defense first mentality has also been there the whole time as well.

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01-08-2010, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownFromNJ View Post
The Devils have been great over the past two decades for a lot of reasons. The #1 reason is Martin Brodeur. The Stevens, Elias', Niedermayers, Parises, and others come and go. Brodeur has been the only constant.
I dont think anyone is debating this but hypotheticaly how "great" would Marty or or any other 1st ballot HOF guy been without a great team around him? not baiting just looking for conversation.

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01-08-2010, 03:59 PM
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Uhhh are you serious? Of course he would. The Devils system didn't win ALL those games and shut out ALL those teams. Nor did they make the COUNTLESS amazing glove saves and so forth and so on. Maybe (and just maybe) he wouldn't have had as many wins or shutouts, but he would still no doubt be a HOF player. But in the opposite of that, he could have had more, you really don't know. I still think ROY was a better goalie, but Brodeur is a HOF player regardless of where he played.

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01-08-2010, 04:00 PM
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Yes he would. And whatever team he would have been on would have had a bigger chance of winning a cup.

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01-08-2010, 04:06 PM
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Who knows.

I don't think he would have the numbers that he has know.

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01-08-2010, 04:07 PM
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Yes.

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01-08-2010, 04:07 PM
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Yes HOF no to records.

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01-08-2010, 04:09 PM
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The Devils implemented and played the system they did because they had Brodeur in net. He made the system, the system didn't make him.

So yes, he would still be a Hall of Famer on any other team, because presumably, they'd tailor their system around him.

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01-08-2010, 04:12 PM
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I would say he was fortunate to not be on a terrible team through his career but he also wasnt on the best team for his entire career. So dont take anything away from him he still showed up to every game to work hard and put up the numbers he has today.

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01-08-2010, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
The Devils implemented and played the system they did because they had Brodeur in net. He made the system, the system didn't make him.

So yes, he would still be a Hall of Famer on any other team.
But I imagine that the system will will be there after he retires because even Kevin Weekes put up good numbers when Brodeur went down last season, and Weekes is really bad.

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01-08-2010, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wario Lemieux View Post
The Devils pretty much invented the trap and have used it throughout the career of Brodeur, which in turn has led to a lot of success for him.

For example, Roloson, Fernandez, and now Backstrom have faded without the defensive system Lemaire employed in Minnesota. Would Brodeur still be a HOF goalie if he spent his career playing on a run and gun team like Atlanta?
No, Brodeur wouldn't be a definite HOFamer if he wasn't on the Devils. The Devils play the most boring brand of hockey in the game. Getting Lemaire behind the bench has made it even worse, but obviously very good for Brodeur. If Marty played for the Thrashers he would not be who he is now and that should be a fact. The Devils organization as a whole should be credited with all Marty's accomplishments. Wins and GAA, shutouts are all based on team play, not the individual. Remember when Brodeur was out for a long period of time and I think Clemmenson stepped in. It was like Marty never left, and that's because of the team. Marty Brodeur is a product of the players around him and nothing more. It actually really bothers me that he's always just given the title Best Ever. Sawchuck had more SO's per game, he played in a time where your hockey life was much shorter (medical advancments have really helped players nowadays). So even that record is not all too big a deal. Hey, if you play forever, eventually you'll get the records. Brett Favre is doing the same thing in Minnesota. He's 40 and had his best statistical season ever. Another product of the players around him. I like Brodeur and hope for another Canada gold, but to say he'd still be a hall of famer without the Devils team and teams of the past is downright BLIND!!!


Last edited by Majik1987: 01-08-2010 at 04:16 PM. Reason: trolling
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Old
01-08-2010, 04:16 PM
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The Devils had some great teams in the 90s and still do for that matter. Some may say a d first trap type system is boring but its been proven if excecuted to a T with great team D it wins Cups.

MB is a GOD in net and the people of NJ are lucky to have been able to have him play in net for them for the last decade. But I still believe he would have nor any other elite golie for that matter won as many cups or had as many shutouts or singlehandily stole wins infront of a horrible team.

Can anyone honestly think of a great goalie on a sub par team that achieved a cup or any other ammount of accolade albeit individual or team?

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