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Old
02-13-2010, 03:57 PM
  #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
As for this whole goalie thing, I just don't get it. What is the fascination with having two starting goalies? Rinne and Ellis are both providing virtually identical performances night in and night out. I understand the flip-flopping right now as we are searching for a clear-cut starter, but if we dealt one of the two, I think the performance level out of the goaltending position will be virtually identical. In the playoffs, it is almost unheard to use more than one goalie. It simply does not happen. If we choose to deal Ellis or Rinne, it is not going to make this team suddenly weaker. Sure, if Rinne gets hurt, we would be in a tough spot. Guess what, though, you can say that for every single team in this league. You can never be immune from having injuries hurt you. Having two goaltenders is a luxury, not a need. In fact, it is silly to hold on to both of them unless you are A) Unable to get anything truly of value or B) Believe you will continue to rotate goalies in the playoffs and that it is beneficial to do so.
That's the thing, I don't think we'd get the same "bang for our buck" in another goalie right now. We really aren't paying either goaltender that much and they are performing fairly well in comparison. We have two starting goaltenders for about $2M combined this season. I really don't think it can get much better than that.

Although, having said that, I agree that we should press one to play and not rotate when that one doesn't do as hot as we might like. You never work out the kinks when you take the guy who fails out. Try, try, again - right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
A lot of attachment we have to these players is emotional, and we are intimidated by the thought of "not having Ellis", or whoever a trade rumor is about. It's hard to let go of a player who we like, but it's a business.
Absolutely, I will fully admit that that is me. I try not to get attached to the players so much but I do. If it isn't obvious, our two goaltenders are my two favorite players and I will be extremely sad with whoever leaves but also very happy with whoever stays. Now if both of them go, what will I do?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appreci8 View Post
Question from a Caps fan.

How good is Hamhuis? What are his strengths/weaknesses?
Well, he likes to turn the puck over in front of the net and get unnecessary penalties for boarding when the puck isn't even near him.

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Old
02-13-2010, 10:23 PM
  #327
echlfreak
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Trade Proposals for the stretch drive

To NYR:

Hamhuis
Josi
3rd Round Pick


for


To Nash:

Prospal
Del Zotto


OR

To Nash:

Whitney
Alberts
Yelle
Then sign Whitney 2 yrs 2.75...a cheaper/older Sullivan


To Carolina:

Hamhuis
1st or 2nd Round pick

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Old
02-13-2010, 10:27 PM
  #328
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To Wash:

Hamhuis
4th Round Pick


To Nash:

Morrisonn
Fehr

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Old
02-13-2010, 10:35 PM
  #329
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To Nashville:

Smid
Cogliano
Moreau


To Edmonton:

Hamhuis
Budish
4th Round Pick

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Old
02-13-2010, 10:36 PM
  #330
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Is Hamhuis' really that bad?

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Old
02-13-2010, 10:43 PM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appreci8 View Post
Is Hamhuis' really that bad?
No, he is probably one of the best No. 3 defensemen in the NHL and also probably above-average as a No. 2 defenseman for most teams in the league.

However, he is an UFA this summer and will not be re-signed by the Predators due to our fiscal restraints. Additionally, he has had some real gaffes this season playing defense partnered with Kevin Klein, who does not communicate on the ice and frequently doesn't adequately support his partner, that have made Hamhuis the whipping boy for the fan base.

I think Hamhuis would be a great addition for a team looking to make a playoff drive and also will be a highly sought after free agent this summer if he makes it to UFA status.

Personally, I want to see him traded to maximize the potential trade value he has as a rental and use that value to fill other holes within the organization (scoring help). I really believe that if he is traded, he will be a key contributor to whatever team acquires him and provide 20+ minutes a night of solid two-way hockey...

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Old
02-13-2010, 10:50 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
To NYR:

Hamhuis
Josi
3rd Round Pick


for


To Nash:

Prospal
Del Zotto
Why are you trading Josi and why do the Rangers want Hamhuis? They are currently loaded with defensemen and have several top young prospects like Del Zotto that they are high on replacing some of their high-priced vets in the upcoming years...

Quote:
To Nash:

Whitney
Alberts
Yelle
Then sign Whitney 2 yrs 2.75...a cheaper/older Sullivan


To Carolina:

Hamhuis
1st or 2nd Round pick
Why does Whitney waive his NTC to come to Nashville? Where do we find the roster room for three players? Why are we giving up our first round pick? Why would Carolina want Hamhuis as a rental? I watched them tonight, Carolina is flying...won 7 in a row, but still remain 8-10 points out of a playoff spot...they are rebuilding, not looking to acquire rentals...they are selling them off...

Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
To Wash:

Hamhuis
4th Round Pick


To Nash:

Morrisonn
Fehr
Probably have to up the pick coming from Nashville to at least a 3rd, but a workable proposal. A lot of Washington fans don't want to give up Fehr, but...you've gotta give to get...

Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
To Nashville:

Smid
Cogliano
Moreau


To Edmonton:

Hamhuis
Budish
4th Round Pick
Again, Edmonton is not in the market for a rental...they are selling, not buying. Not keen on trading Budish, especially for that package. Also, again where are we finding room on the roster to put three players in when only subtracting one?

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Old
02-13-2010, 10:56 PM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
No, he is probably one of the best No. 3 defensemen in the NHL and also probably above-average as a No. 2 defenseman for most teams in the league.

However, he is an UFA this summer and will not be re-signed by the Predators due to our fiscal restraints. Additionally, he has had some real gaffes this season playing defense partnered with Kevin Klein, who does not communicate on the ice and frequently doesn't adequately support his partner, that have made Hamhuis the whipping boy for the fan base.

I think Hamhuis would be a great addition for a team looking to make a playoff drive and also will be a highly sought after free agent this summer if he makes it to UFA status.

Personally, I want to see him traded to maximize the potential trade value he has as a rental and use that value to fill other holes within the organization (scoring help). I really believe that if he is traded, he will be a key contributor to whatever team acquires him and provide 20+ minutes a night of solid two-way hockey...
Thanks for the breakdown man, answers a lot of my questions on him.

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Old
02-13-2010, 11:27 PM
  #334
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Value of Hamuis to the Sens

Sens need some help on D and Hamuis is an intresting option. what would Nash want in return for him?

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Old
02-13-2010, 11:30 PM
  #335
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Old
02-14-2010, 12:17 AM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisher For Selke View Post
Sens need some help on D and Hamuis is an intresting option. what would Nash want in return for him?
Any chance if we add Jones we could get back Foligno and maybe a prospect or pick?

As I'm sure you do, I really like watching Foligno and believe he could really develop into a real consistent, hard-nosed two-way forward that has enough offensive skill to play top-six minutes nightly.

Saw the JP Dumont comparison over on the Sens board due to his playmaking skill, but it's really his playmaking ability plus his grit that makes me covet him...

Honestly, I doubt Foligno is available though...just don't see much on the Senators roster that can help us right now without hurting the Sens at the same time. Don't think we're good trading partners...

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Old
02-14-2010, 12:56 AM
  #337
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Any interest in Stempniak? He's a hard working guy that has a little skill and can play the PK. Not really a guy that fixes anything but if we are going for a more minor transaction I can see him being a target.

Edit: NM just saw he is making 3.5 this year. Even prorated that is awful for someone his caliber.

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Old
02-14-2010, 07:59 AM
  #338
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Who do we think might be used in the coming weeks?

I'd guess Jones, O'Reilly, Santo and a slight (very slight) chance of D. Ellis or Rinne?

Thoughts

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Old
02-14-2010, 08:35 AM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
To NYR:

Hamhuis
Josi
3rd Round Pick


for


To Nash:

Prospal
Del Zotto

personally, i don't care that the rangers don't need hamhuis. sather is an idiot that would do something like this. i would in a heartbeat. i really like del zotto

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:03 AM
  #340
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Let's all applaud Dan Hamhuis and his two-penalty performance in NJ, likely shooting down any chance of a trade with any Eastern Conf team. *ugh*

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Old
02-14-2010, 08:57 PM
  #341
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Wow, after the Pittsburgh game, I say the player we need to try to get should be Jordan Staal! That guy is a force on the penalty kill, and he could be on our power play too. The Penguin fans are always moaning about needing wingers to play with Crosby and Malkin... How about:

To Nashville:
Jordan Staal

To Pittsburgh:
JP Dumont
Ryan Jones
rights to Radulov
conditional 2nd if Rads doesn't come back after his KHL contract is up

That may sound like a lot, but this guy could solve our penalty kill and power play woahs simultaniously for years.

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Old
02-14-2010, 09:11 PM
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oreilly22 View Post
Wow, after the Pittsburgh game, I say the player we need to try to get should be Jordan Staal! That guy is a force on the penalty kill, and he could be on our power play too. The Penguin fans are always moaning about needing wingers to play with Crosby and Malkin... How about:

To Nashville:
Jordan Staal

To Pittsburgh:
JP Dumont
Ryan Jones
rights to Radulov
conditional 2nd if Rads doesn't come back after his KHL contract is up

That may sound like a lot, but this guy could solve our penalty kill and power play woahs simultaniously for years.
I doubt it's going to happen, but I would die and have gone to heaven if Jordan Staal came to Nashville.

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Old
02-14-2010, 09:27 PM
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabreTooth3539 View Post
I doubt it's going to happen, but I would die and have gone to heaven if Jordan Staal came to Nashville.
Yeah you're right, but I think it makes since for both sides because we get the super human penalty killing machine, and the Penguins get a really good winger in Dumont, at least while they wait for their super prize - Alexander Radulov - who alongside Geno could make opposing defenses have nightmares in a bad English-Russian dialect. Come on Poile make it happen!

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Old
02-15-2010, 12:06 AM
  #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appreci8 View Post
Is Hamhuis' really that bad?
As a talent, no, but his play has not reflected his talent or his expected salary demands.

Poile said he has no interest in trading Hamhuis during the season, which may be true, but it would make sense to do so if we could swing a deal for a replacement on the cheap. Plus he has to see that the Hamhuis-Klein pairing STILL isn't working... doesn't he?

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Old
02-15-2010, 02:01 AM
  #345
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Still not sure about giving away rights to Radulov. I understand it though adding something to our team now by getting rid of something not even interested in playing for us.

I'd still like to see Hamhuis, Smithson, Sulzer, Dumont, Ellis, and maybe even Jones gone. Thats alot of moves but I think we could do it if they wanted too. Before someone calls me stupid those are players that could be easily replaced on our team. Dumont and Ellis would be the toughest to replace but I have faith we could get something decent for them maybe. Or even for the Ellis lovers I could easily replace Ellis with Rinne. Not sure on the contract specifics I know Dumont has a no move clause. Not sure about the others.

Smithson could easily be replaced by Spaling. Not too mention would fit well on legwands line. I know he's not the most experienced player you want going into a playoff run but seemed very responsible for most of his stay up here.

Sulzer will be replaced when Franson comes back. Probably... His move or trade could help open up a spot where Hamhuis is now????

Jones seems likes he'd be a welcome addition to any team looking for grit speed and goalie presence.

I just don't see us moving Arnott or Sullivan. So I picked Dumont cause he's still got game a change of scenery would probably do him wonders.

I still see us getting rid of Ellis or Rinne we only need one the other I agree is a luxury we don't need to be spending money on. Unless we get a nice deal.
you could probably add O'Reilly on there as well I didn't because I am impressed by his play every time he comes up here he has good puck handling skills needs a little more NHL play but I always see improvements with him. Not sure where he fits in our grand scheme of things, Would hate to see him picked up off waivers though and we get nothing.

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Old
02-15-2010, 08:18 AM
  #346
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I look at the Ellis/Rinne situation from a different angle. If Ellis is a viable option for the immediate future the Poile can play hardball with Rinne. I think Poile should make a big push to sign one or both of them over the break and not wait for Rinne to maybe get hot and drive his pice sky high.

Here is how it could go: Poile offers Rinne 2 yrs 7 million total and tells him if he doesnt take it he'll make a similar offer to Ellis.

if Rinne calls that bluff, Poile offers Ellis 2 yrs 5 million total. Ellis should take that as a bird in the hand vs trying the FA market not knowing how the rest of the season goes.

If Rinne subsequently signs, Ellis should be tradeable this summer at that figure.

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Old
02-15-2010, 08:25 AM
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
I look at the Ellis/Rinne situation from a different angle. If Ellis is a viable option for the immediate future the Poile can play hardball with Rinne. I think Poile should make a big push to sign one or both of them over the break and not wait for Rinne to maybe get hot and drive his pice sky high.

Here is how it could go: Poile offers Rinne 2 yrs 7 million total and tells him if he doesnt take it he'll make a similar offer to Ellis.

if Rinne calls that bluff, Poile offers Ellis 2 yrs 5 million total. Ellis should take that as a bird in the hand vs trying the FA market not knowing how the rest of the season goes.

If Rinne subsequently signs, Ellis should be tradeable this summer at that figure.
I'm new to the whole world of salaries and so forth but do you really think Pekka's salary would jump from $725k (I think that's what it is this year) to $3.5M in one year?? He hasn't been stellar this season so I just can't imagine it rising that high. But like I said, I'm new to this so I could be totally wrong.

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Old
02-15-2010, 09:04 AM
  #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabreTooth3539 View Post
I'm new to the whole world of salaries and so forth but do you really think Pekka's salary would jump from $725k (I think that's what it is this year) to $3.5M in one year?? He hasn't been stellar this season so I just can't imagine it rising that high. But like I said, I'm new to this so I could be totally wrong.
Others who I think know this better than me seem to believe Rinne could easily command over 4 million on the open market.

Starting goalies are obviously a prized commodity, but many GMs have been burned giving big multi year deals to goalies with only one or two good years behind them.

Rinne agreed to this years one year deal playing for peanuts specifically so he could be a UFA this summer, so i think he's going to be looking for big money if its there. But his play has been a little inconsistent the last two months so he might decide that 3.5 mil guaranteed for 2 years is better than what he would get if he has a bad spell and Ellis supplants him down the stretch.

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Old
02-15-2010, 09:04 AM
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabreTooth3539 View Post
I'm new to the whole world of salaries and so forth but do you really think Pekka's salary would jump from $725k (I think that's what it is this year) to $3.5M in one year?? He hasn't been stellar this season so I just can't imagine it rising that high. But like I said, I'm new to this so I could be totally wrong.
Unfortunately, yes. When a player becomes a UFA, any team can sign them. As a result, they get the highest salary anyone is willing to pay them. In this case, fair value for him is at or above that amount. His old salary doesn't really matter.

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Old
02-15-2010, 09:20 AM
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Others who I think know this better than me seem to believe Rinne could easily command over 4 million on the open market.

Starting goalies are obviously a prized commodity, but many GMs have been burned giving big multi year deals to goalies with only one or two good years behind them.

Rinne agreed to this years one year deal playing for peanuts specifically so he could be a UFA this summer, so i think he's going to be looking for big money if its there. But his play has been a little inconsistent the last two months so he might decide that 3.5 mil guaranteed for 2 years is better than what he would get if he has a bad spell and Ellis supplants him down the stretch.
Based on what? A good rookie season in which he split starts? Or how about his wildly inconsistent, mediocre sophomore season in which he's just as likely to let in an unscreened wrist shot fromt he top of the circles as he is to make a game saving save on a breakaway?

I wouldn't give Rinne more than 2 million per at this year. More than that, and we're bemoaning another handcuff contract with a player not living up to it.

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