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Old
02-15-2010, 09:28 AM
  #351
BigFatCat999
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THe problem with Rinne is that you would have to pay for potential when the shear fact of the matter is that I don't think it's there. he's 27 and Ellis is 29. Rinne is an old prospect. I think in 2 years Pickard could match Rinne's play and he would be an RFA after his EL contract. Much more value to the Preds than Rinne.

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02-15-2010, 11:36 AM
  #352
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I think he will get close to what mason got. We were lucky to be able to dump Mason and his salary off for the mid-round draft pick at the time. A similar situation could arise if we went that route with Ellis or Rinne.

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02-15-2010, 11:41 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
THe problem with Rinne is that you would have to pay for potential when the shear fact of the matter is that I don't think it's there. he's 27 and Ellis is 29. Rinne is an old prospect. I think in 2 years Pickard could match Rinne's play and he would be an RFA after his EL contract. Much more value to the Preds than Rinne.
I also think you have to remember that this is his sophomore year and those are common for slumps. Who was the one that was looking worse and worse and we brought a rookie (Pekka) up to "save the day" last year? Ellis. And just as Ellis is having a better year than last year, Pekka can pick it up and have a much better year next year. Not only that, but he's had a weird sophomore year. Getting to start only a little more than half the time really didn't help his confidence or consistency. He may be an "old" prospect but he still has a good 8-10 years in him. I think people are writing him off too fast.

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02-15-2010, 11:57 AM
  #354
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I also think you have to remember that this is his sophomore year and those are common for slumps. Who was the one that was looking worse and worse and we brought a rookie (Pekka) up to "save the day" last year? Ellis. And just as Ellis is having a better year than last year, Pekka can pick it up and have a much better year next year. Not only that, but he's had a weird sophomore year. Getting to start only a little more than half the time really didn't help his confidence or consistency. He may be an "old" prospect but he still has a good 8-10 years in him. I think people are writing him off too fast.
I'm not writing him off, I'm just saying the Predators have a position of strength (Goal) and they might be able to fix their team with that position of strength.

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02-15-2010, 12:06 PM
  #355
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I'm not writing him off, I'm just saying the Predators have a position of strength (Goal) and they might be able to fix their team with that position of strength.
I agree BFC, I want Ellis back and I want Rinne traded. Rinne has more trade value and I think Ellis is a sold netminder when he isn't forced into platoon situation.

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02-15-2010, 12:09 PM
  #356
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All I am saying is that let us see what happens. Right now Rinne is the future. But as we have seen with Hornqvist's development Pickard may become the future. If that is the case, I don't want the Preds handcuffed with a contract they can't move. If you look at the stats this year Ellis and Rinne are a wash, hell Cristobal Huet is better statistically than both Ellis and Rinne.

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02-15-2010, 12:21 PM
  #357
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Quote:
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I agree BFC, I want Ellis back and I want Rinne traded. Rinne has more trade value and I think Ellis is a sold netminder when he isn't forced into platoon situation.
I completely agree. Ellis is very solid in net. Much more than Rinne. I think Rinne's trade value will get us something great in return to boost this team. I don't think Ellis has quite the value.

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02-15-2010, 12:28 PM
  #358
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Ellis has been more consistent in net this year than Rinne but two things to consider, when we got hot and rode a goalie it was Rinne. As inconsistent as Rinne has been, he doesn't give up those back breaking goals that Ellis has the habit of doing. The San Jose game being one earlier in the year. Yesterdays Orpik goal was poorly played and could have cost us the game. However, Rinne has given up his fair share of those as well.

I don't think any team is going to pay Rinne $4 million or more this off season on potential alone. We have to look at what teams need goalies too and what their cap situation is. That would give us a better idea of who is looking, what their needs are and what they can offer. Come on, Anderson signed for what, $1.5 million? Khabi signed for $4 million. Then you have a guy like Huet who signed a big contract with the Hawks and is an albatross. I just don't see a team paying that much for an unproven quantity at this point.

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02-15-2010, 12:31 PM
  #359
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Ellis has been more consistent in net this year than Rinne but two things to consider, when we got hot and rode a goalie it was Rinne. As inconsistent as Rinne has been, he doesn't give up those back breaking goals that Ellis has the habit of doing. The San Jose game being one earlier in the year. Yesterdays Orpik goal was poorly played and could have cost us the game. However, Rinne has given up his fair share of those as well.

I don't think any team is going to pay Rinne $4 million or more this off season on potential alone. We have to look at what teams need goalies too and what their cap situation is. That would give us a better idea of who is looking, what their needs are and what they can offer. Come on, Anderson signed for what, $1.5 million? Khabi signed for $4 million. Then you have a guy like Huet who signed a big contract with the Hawks and is an albatross. I just don't see a team paying that much for an unproven quantity at this point.
New Jersey game last Friday? I saw two of them.

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02-15-2010, 12:32 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Ellis has been more consistent in net this year than Rinne but two things to consider, when we got hot and rode a goalie it was Rinne. As inconsistent as Rinne has been, he doesn't give up those back breaking goals that Ellis has the habit of doing. The San Jose game being one earlier in the year. Yesterdays Orpik goal was poorly played and could have cost us the game. However, Rinne has given up his fair share of those as well.

I don't think any team is going to pay Rinne $4 million or more this off season on potential alone. We have to look at what teams need goalies too and what their cap situation is. That would give us a better idea of who is looking, what their needs are and what they can offer. Come on, Anderson signed for what, $1.5 million? Khabi signed for $4 million. Then you have a guy like Huet who signed a big contract with the Hawks and is an albatross. I just don't see a team paying that much for an unproven quantity at this point.
If Rinne can be signed cheaply, I'm all for it. But if it get's to a contract that causes HF's profanity filters to explode from all the cussing then no.

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02-15-2010, 02:23 PM
  #361
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Based on what? A good rookie season in which he split starts? Or how about his wildly inconsistent, mediocre sophomore season in which he's just as likely to let in an unscreened wrist shot fromt he top of the circles as he is to make a game saving save on a breakaway?

I wouldn't give Rinne more than 2 million per at this year. More than that, and we're bemoaning another handcuff contract with a player not living up to it.
As the say "dont shoot the messenger"

I dont necessarily disagree with your concerns about rinne but if "you" (meaning poile) wont pay him at least 3 million, I predict someone out there who needs a goalie and has money to burn will. Thats just the reality of the market.

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02-15-2010, 02:26 PM
  #362
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I agree BFC, I want Ellis back and I want Rinne traded. Rinne has more trade value and I think Ellis is a sold netminder when he isn't forced into platoon situation.
what? Its only in a platooon situation that Ellis thrives. When he was given the starting job out of camp last year he flopped.

Ellis, for whatever reason, appears to be a fabulous 1B goaltender... the guy who can come in and break a losing streak when the 1A goalie is struggling, carry you for a few games, then hand it back over... but if you put him in a situation where he's gotta play 70 games a year i think he will not be able to do it

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02-15-2010, 02:29 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
All I am saying is that let us see what happens. Right now Rinne is the future. But as we have seen with Hornqvist's development Pickard may become the future. If that is the case, I don't want the Preds handcuffed with a contract they can't move. If you look at the stats this year Ellis and Rinne are a wash, hell Cristobal Huet is better statistically than both Ellis and Rinne.
Picard wont be ready until at least 11-12.

Rinne gets a two year deal in the 3.5 mil(per season) range and then he can try to prove he's worth a vokoun type deal.

If Rinne wont go for that, then sign Ellis for 2 years at 5 million total, and look for a veteran backup for next year.


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Old
02-15-2010, 02:30 PM
  #364
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The positives with rinne that make me choose him over ellis: 1). Size. 2) far better glove 3). He has better rebound control. In ellis's defense, he preobably is slightly more consistent with less chance of straying too far out of his crease. He is also a better stickhandler.

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02-15-2010, 03:38 PM
  #365
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New Jersey game last Friday? I saw two of them.
For what it's worth, read the third line after you bolded. I said Rinne has had his share of bad goals as well.

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02-15-2010, 11:28 PM
  #366
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I know this won't make a lot of sense and I doubt the player I'm about to mention would accept a trade here but what about a swap of Hamhuis for Scott Niedermayer. Anaheim would have the money to re-sign him in the offseason and it gives us a veteran d-man that has been there and he would come off the books in the offseason as well. He'd be an upgrade for sure over Hamhuis and would give us a true veteran presence on the blue line like we've never had before. The cap hit wouldn't be that huge and it would address some issues we have on the PP and PK. I am thinking way outside the box with this one and know he'd probably only go to Vancouver or NJ if he were to go anywhere but it just kind of hit me out of nowhere. Flame away but I already know it's not going to happen.

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02-15-2010, 11:38 PM
  #367
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I know this won't make a lot of sense and I doubt the player I'm about to mention would accept a trade here but what about a swap of Hamhuis for Scott Niedermayer. Anaheim would have the money to re-sign him in the offseason and it gives us a veteran d-man that has been there and he would come off the books in the offseason as well. He'd be an upgrade for sure over Hamhuis and would give us a true veteran presence on the blue line like we've never had before. The cap hit wouldn't be that huge and it would address some issues we have on the PP and PK. I am thinking way outside the box with this one and know he'd probably only go to Vancouver or NJ if he were to go anywhere but it just kind of hit me out of nowhere. Flame away but I already know it's not going to happen.

Ana has no reason to do this..
they can get better then a ufa from other teams

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02-15-2010, 11:41 PM
  #368
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Ana has no reason to do this..
they can get better then a ufa from other teams
If they know they could lock him up or had a sign and trade deal with him is it as far fetched?

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02-15-2010, 11:43 PM
  #369
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If they know they could lock him up or had a sign and trade deal with him is it as far fetched?
again they can prob get a young top 4 D + a 1st.. that helps them allot more then this..
Doesn't matter as hes going to retire a duck

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02-15-2010, 11:52 PM
  #370
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again they can prob get a young top 4 D + a 1st.. that helps them allot more then this..
Doesn't matter as hes going to retire a duck
He won't be a Duck if they're not going to the playoffs or he doesn't think they have a shot. It'll be interesting to see if he stays there or he gets moved at the deadline. I also wonder if he plays after this season and if he does, where does he end up because the guy can still play. I would love to get him here for one season to teach Suter what he knows. I see Suter slowly turning into Niedermayer the more I watch him.

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Old
02-16-2010, 07:56 AM
  #371
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Ana has no reason to do this..
they can get better then a ufa from other teams
praytell. what ufa d-man will be better and more affordable than dan hamhuis?

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02-16-2010, 08:51 AM
  #372
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the point is Ana wouldnt gain anything trading UFA neidermayer for Ufa hamhuis.

sign and trades dont often happen at the deadline (or at all for that matter).

If Anaheim was of a mind to trade neidermayer, they would want an asset back, ie an rfa or someone with years left on a contract.

but really, with the Ducks just 2 points out of 8th, I dont know why they would be looking to trade a major player anyway.

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02-16-2010, 09:08 AM
  #373
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praytell. what ufa d-man will be better and more affordable than dan hamhuis?
Anton Volchenkov
Willie Mitchell
Paul Martin
Toni Lydman
Andrew Ference
Joe Corvo
Niclas Wallin
Brett Clark
Dennis Seidenberg
Jordan Leopold
Andy Sutton
Adrian Aucoin
Zbynek Michalek
Carlo Colaicovo
Jay McKee
Shaone Morrisson

All should get comparable money to Hamhuis, most would likely do a better job for us.

Bolded are options that I feel will get significantly less than Hamhuis eventually will(I'm predicting someone gives him at least 4 million, I pray it's not us). I could have kept going.

We don't seem to understand that if we don't re-sign Hamhuis, if we don't re-sign Ellis or Rinne, it's not the end of the world. It doesn't mean we have to try to force Blum to be ready or play Sulzer 23 minutes a night. There are other options. We've had it so beaten into our heads that if we don't sign our guys, we simply have to plug something in from Milwaukee. That's not necessarily the case. *I* am more worried about losing Bouillon, honestly. He's been twice the defenseman Hamhuis has this season at a quarter of the cost. Raise him up to 1.2 million for 2 more years, then sign someone else to replace Hammer.

I rag on Hamhuis a lot. There are those around here that do it far worse, and there are those around here that are convinced that it's all in our heads, he's the same great defenseman he's always been, and that it's all Klein's fault. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle of all that.

I think the problem is that Hamhuis does everything "pretty well," but does nothing "great." That's fine, and I think for 2 million dollars, he's a great defenseman. The problem is that for whatever reason, the perception is going to be that he's a FOUR million dollar defenseman, and that he can play a top 2 role. he can't. He's the ideal complementary defenseman for a team that can afford to spend that much on a number 4. We very clearly cannot, not without continuing to ignore glaring needs and handcuff ourselves to another huge contract that rewards mediocrity.

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02-16-2010, 10:49 AM
  #374
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Anton Volchenkov
Willie Mitchell
Paul Martin
Toni Lydman
Andrew Ference
Joe Corvo
Niclas Wallin
Brett Clark
Dennis Seidenberg
Jordan Leopold
Andy Sutton
Adrian Aucoin
Zbynek Michalek
Carlo Colaicovo
Jay McKee
Shaone Morrisson

i don't think you understand hamhuis would be a top pair guy on alot of teams. on that list, martin is the only one. all the rest are bottom pair, maybe second pair guys

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02-16-2010, 10:49 AM
  #375
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What do you all think?

Hamuis, Rinne and a pick (probably 2nd or 3rd)
For
Patrick Sharp

Seems like it would help both teams now and in the future and I believe both Hamuis and Sharp are UFA's at the end of the season.

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