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Kovalchuk Trade Talks Underway

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Old
01-10-2010, 12:48 PM
  #201
OrrNumber4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btn View Post
The Thrashers got two NHL roster forwards, a 1st rounder drafted the year before, and another 1st rounder.

This offer is not even close to the Hossa offer.
Hossa did get that much, but keep in mind there should be fewer players in the Kovalchuk hunt this year because fewer contending teams have the cap space.

Also, teams have to feel with Kovalchuk that retaining him is going to be tough, which makes it less likely that a "pretender" picks him up. With Hossa that issue was not as significant.

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01-10-2010, 12:50 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Coach Parker View Post
If Toronto's 1st is being moved, salary would have to go as well to ensure the Bruins could sign him as well.

As and aside: WHY THE HELL would Chicago change anything about their team right now? Chemistry is great. Everyone is contributing, and players can be traded at the draft for picks! I wouldn't make a single move in Chicago. Taking away 2-3 players suggested takes away from the best aspect of Chicago's game right now: depth.

For once I agree that in Chicago's case the best move is no move at all. Reap the benefits of a Cup run then a sale of players at the draft who have the experience and youth.
the exact way i feel about the caps well minus 1 0r 2 journeymen d dmen at the deadline shold set us up for a decent run at it with out selling the farm.

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Old
01-10-2010, 12:58 PM
  #203
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Reading this thread, it boggles the mind how some people on here overvalue their team's mediocre AHL players so much.

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01-10-2010, 01:37 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by teme View Post
Ilya wants 10+, so good luck with that.

I think he is heading to KHL next season.

As for rental deals, Blackhawks are a very good trading partner to Thrashers. Versteeg, Bufyglien, etc. are exactly the kind of players they need. And by the way, so is Bergeron.
This is your typical broken logic of A = B therefore B must = C. Sorry but A /= C in this case as Los Angeles is not Atlanta.

Yes, he wants 10+ million...from Atlanta, evidently according to rumors. That means nothing here. Players always want to get paid more to play someplace they don't want to play and are willing to take less in a situation that makes more sense to them. LA can offer several possible situations all at once that "may" make Ilya want to go there, especially now that they are on the cusp of making the playoffs and have so many young, talented players that are still up and coming.

The situations include being in the city/county/state that is Los Angeles, playing on a team that looks like it can make many playoff runs in a row, a team that has yet to win anything yet looks like it has huge potential so he would be looked at as a savior-type if the team had success after his arrival, and has a talented center like Anze Kopitar.

Of all those things, the ATL maybe as Evander Kane and none of the above.

- R

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01-10-2010, 01:37 PM
  #205
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A few things to consider.

If Boston is in the market, they probably have some of the more tangible assets. Though I would have to figure they would probably be in the rental side of the deal if they look to make the move. Unless they deal significant salary (and the Toronto 1st might constitute some salary being dealt) I would imagine fitting him in would be tough.

I think the Caps at least put a feeler, if at the very least to try and drive the cost up or help influence what teams get a shot at him. I'm not sure they need him, but I can't say they would like him moving to an Eastern Conference rival.

Lastly, even if a team does acquire him, and he is for just a rental, teams probably could recoup at least a pick out of it come deadline for negotiation rights.

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01-10-2010, 01:38 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Parker View Post
If Toronto's 1st is being moved, salary would have to go as well to ensure the Bruins could sign him as well.

As and aside: WHY THE HELL would Chicago change anything about their team right now? Chemistry is great. Everyone is contributing, and players can be traded at the draft for picks! I wouldn't make a single move in Chicago. Taking away 2-3 players suggested takes away from the best aspect of Chicago's game right now: depth.

For once I agree that in Chicago's case the best move is no move at all. Reap the benefits of a Cup run then a sale of players at the draft who have the experience and youth.
Chemistry is great and that would be a risk

But if it is Versteeg and Barker going the other way it doesn't hurt us as much

LW Kovalchuk >>>>> LW Versteeg
Barker is close to losing his #6 dman spot to Jordan Hendry

Really doesn't hurt the team as much as people suggest

Adding a game breaking elite talent > Adding some picks + prospects in offseason

That is just my opinion of course

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01-10-2010, 01:42 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
If you think Atl would even trade you Pavelec for Bernier straight up, give your head a shake..They are every bit as high on him, as L.A is on Bernier
Nobody said that the deal would be valuing those two players equally. I was just throwing out there to the possibility that Bernier is not untouchable to the other Kings fans. If ATL made Pavelec (of whom I just found out has the same birthday as me) available as part of the deal, there's no reason why we couldn't make Bernier, who is still just a prospect, available.

If you're LA, wouldn't you allow Bernier to be in the trade discussion if it was for Pavelec when we're trying to make the playoffs right now? That's all I'm saying. Now what winds up being the overall deal, I didn't mention the values overall.

- R

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01-10-2010, 01:52 PM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mighty Boosh View Post
The Pens would be giving up lots of pieces in order to get a player who could just bolt the system (a la Hossa). Fool Shero once...
No disrespect (and a bit OT), but I disagree entirely with the implication of that comment.

Shero was not "fooled" by the Hossa deal. He got EXACTLY what he wanted ot of it - a trip to the SCF...an experience that served the Pens greatly when they returned 12 months later.

Shero knew precisely that he hhad Hossa's services for a couple of months when he acquired him. If he could re-sign him, great. But that is NOT why he made the deal. In a radio interview adter Hossa signed with Detroit, Shero said that he harbored no ill will toward Hossa, as its a business, and the player gave the Pens great service while with them. And he'd make the deal again, if given the chance.

HF posters need to make the CLEAR distinction between the purpose of deadline deals for contenders (read: winning the Cup; NOW) vs. also-rans (bulking up for the future).

As such, I'm guessing no one who is inquiring about Kovalchuk has any dreams (stipulation) of getting his name on a contract - let alone negotiating with him - before the season ends. The focus is entirely on the next few months, period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LetNoneIn View Post
Yes - because though the player may be a rental - the Stanley Cup is not a rental. If you win it, that year's cup victory is yours forever.
Precisely. Accumulating young futures is a means to an end - winning the Cup. GMs are paid not to accumulate talent, but to win championships. So, when you believe you have a real chance, you do everything possible to make it happen.


Last edited by Trottier: 01-10-2010 at 01:59 PM.
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01-10-2010, 02:00 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by The Mighty Boosh View Post
As much as all Pens fans would love to see Crosby get an all-star winger to play alongside him for years to come, Pittsburgh is absolutely not in the running.

- Sid and Kovy don't exactly get along very well, at least on the ice.
- The Pens don't have nearly enough cap space to take on Kovy's salary.
- Hossa trade aside, Shero seems to like to tinker with the roster as opposed to make huge moves.
- The Pens would be giving up lots of pieces in order to get a player who could just bolt the system (a la Hossa). Fool Shero once...
You really believe the last point? What did Shero give up in hindsight? Esposito who hasn't done anything, a 1st round pick who needs quite a bit of time to develop, Erik Christensen who has bounced around quite a bit since his days with the Pens, and Colby Armstrong who is a good 3rd line player who can create some secondary scoring. That price tag was well worth the experience this team got, which directly benefited the team last season when they were placed in the same position. If presented with a deal like that again, I would take it 10/10 times as a Pens fan.

What I think you should be saying is, Fool Waddell once...

There is no way I see Don getting hosed with Kovalchuk like he did with Hossa. More sure thing assets will have to be going the other way.

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01-10-2010, 02:15 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Precisely. Accumulating young futures is a means to an end - winning the Cup. GMs are paid not to accumulate talent, but to win championships. So, when you believe you have a real chance, you do everything possible to make it happen.
Which is exactly why Washington or Chicago *may* be the likeliest destinations. As a Caps fan, I don't think I'm rooting for a Kovalchuk to the Caps trade...but were it to happen, it would be for the above mentioned reasons.

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01-10-2010, 02:20 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Chemistry is great and that would be a risk

But if it is Versteeg and Barker going the other way it doesn't hurt us as much

LW Kovalchuk >>>>> LW Versteeg
Barker is close to losing his #6 dman spot to Jordan Hendry

Really doesn't hurt the team as much as people suggest

Adding a game breaking elite talent > Adding some picks + prospects in offseason

That is just my opinion of course
You just made a great argument as to why Atlanta should trade their face of the franchise for these players.

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01-10-2010, 02:28 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Nobody said that the deal would be valuing those two players equally. I was just throwing out there to the possibility that Bernier is not untouchable to the other Kings fans. If ATL made Pavelec (of whom I just found out has the same birthday as me) available as part of the deal, there's no reason why we couldn't make Bernier, who is still just a prospect, available.

If you're LA, wouldn't you allow Bernier to be in the trade discussion if it was for Pavelec when we're trying to make the playoffs right now? That's all I'm saying. Now what winds up being the overall deal, I didn't mention the values overall.

- R
Pavelec is a different deal, if Atl even gives him up...
I dont know why they would swap goalie prospects, when they like theirs better...
And Bernier would hold wayyy more value to a team that needed a young goalie...
Need I remind you, that they already have 2, under 25, with number 1 potential...
Goalies to Atl are no value (unless its Fleury, Luongo, Ward, then im sure they would at least listen)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Chemistry is great and that would be a risk

But if it is Versteeg and Barker going the other way it doesn't hurt us as much

LW Kovalchuk >>>>> LW Versteeg
Barker is close to losing his #6 dman spot to Jordan Hendry

Really doesn't hurt the team as much as people suggest

Adding a game breaking elite talent > Adding some picks + prospects in offseason

That is just my opinion of course
WOW.....YOU SHOULD BE A SALESMAN WHEN YOU GROW UP...
IF YOU WANT KOVALCHUK, YOU NEED TO SELL YOUR GUYS AS WHAT ATL NEEDS, NOT DISCREDIT THEM!

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01-10-2010, 03:09 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Chemistry is great and that would be a risk

But if it is Versteeg and Barker going the other way it doesn't hurt us as much

LW Kovalchuk >>>>> LW Versteeg
Barker is close to losing his #6 dman spot to Jordan Hendry

Really doesn't hurt the team as much as people suggest

Adding a game breaking elite talent > Adding some picks + prospects in offseason

That is just my opinion of course
I'm with you on this one. If those are the two players involved, I'm okay with it. I still think it would take more than those two guys to get Ilya Kovalchuk, but for the sake of this conversation, if it only costs the Hawks two current rostered players (in particular the two listed) and then a couple of picks I'm okay with only two guys moving. There is a lot to be said about the chemistry, depth, and overall make up of this team this year and I wouldn't feel comfortable giving up more than two current rostered players on a rental. Any more than that would be risky, in my opinion.

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01-10-2010, 03:11 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
WOW.....YOU SHOULD BE A SALESMAN WHEN YOU GROW UP...IF YOU WANT KOVALCHUK, YOU NEED TO SELL YOUR GUYS AS WHAT ATL NEEDS, NOT DISCREDIT THEM!
I don't think he's discrediting them so much as he's crediting the Hawks talent and depth in being able to move guys like that.

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01-10-2010, 03:28 PM
  #215
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Chicago is probably most likely suitor and the situation itself is amazing, chicago has a real opportunity to fix cap issues and win a cup at the same time lol Very interesting, anyone else in the playoff hunt contending for him could mess things up for the team. Other than chicago, all others should wait until June/July, Kovie is not returning.
Enlighten me here. How can Chicago fix their cap issues when Kovy wants $10,000,000 for starters? Because no way Atlanta will take on Campbell to their roster and you can bet your mortgage on that. If I was Atlanta I will start with Seabrook and Versteeg.... Keep in mind what quality type of player Kovy is. No way I want Barker.

Secondly, why would Chicago disrupt the team's chemistry at this point?

Edit: I don't think they are a great trading partner.

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01-10-2010, 03:30 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by The Judge View Post
Enlighten me here. How can Chicago fix their cap issues when Kovy wants $10,000,000 for starters? Because no way Atlanta will take on Campbell to their roster and you can bet your mortgage on that. If I was Atlanta I will start with Seabrook and Versteeg.... Keep in mind what quality type of player Kovy is. No way I want Barker.

Secondly, why would Chicago disrupt the team's chemistry at this point?

Edit: I don't think they are a great trading partner.
Do people really not understand rental? Chicago is trading players they have to get rid of next season anyway for a better shot at the cup this season.

It's not that complicated.

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01-10-2010, 03:39 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by thedjpd View Post
Do people really not understand rental? Chicago is trading players they have to get rid of next season anyway for a better shot at the cup this season.

It's not that complicated.
Nope people never will either even Hawks fans don't get it. It is amazing how thick some people are

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01-10-2010, 03:40 PM
  #218
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Don't you think Kovalchuk's threats of going to the KHL and/or asking for $10 million per season will make the offers for a trade go down a bit. When the Thrashers dealt Hossa, the thought was that the team he was traded to would sign him for around 7-8 million per season, an acceptable number for the player and the team. With Kovalchuk wanting to be the highest paid player in the league (which is ridiculous when he isn't even close to being in the top 5), I think teams will keep that in mind when they make their trade proposals.

I'm sure Atlanta would ship Kovie to Chicago as soon as they offered Sharp, Versteeg and Barker, but I don't think Chicago is going to shake up the team like that when they're the #1 team in the league.

I think that Kovalchuk's demands of a 10 year/100 million dollar contract is a way for him to say, "Don't hate me Thrashers fans, I gave them the option to sign me, but they wouldn't pony up the cash." He really wants out of Atlanta and by asking for a ridiculous contract like that he'll get what he wants and not look like the bad guy.

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01-10-2010, 03:48 PM
  #219
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If Kovalchuk goes to the Hawks, goes on to win the Rocket Richard trophy, the Hawks win the Cup, and scores 15+ goals in the playoffs, and *gasp* win the Conn Smythe, I think there will be teams willing to spend 10 million/year and even turn over the top end of their rosters to sign him in the summer.

If Kovy goes to Chicago, he will be there to scores goals only, especially on the PP... not to play defense, not for leadership.

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01-10-2010, 03:48 PM
  #220
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Nope people never will either even Hawks fans don't get it. It is amazing how thick some people are
That's the thing, Chicago doesn't need a rental to lose guys like Sharp, Versteeg and Barker. If they don't trade for Kovie, keep thier team in tact and then move someone like Campbell at the draft, they get to keep Versteeg, Sharp and Barker. They're #1 overall right now in the NHL, why would they want to risk that?

It's not about being, "thick skulled," about a rental player, it's the notion that the Hawks would want to gut their team when they may not necessarily have to.

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01-10-2010, 03:51 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by who_me? View Post
If Kovalchuk goes to the Hawks, goes on to win the Rocket Richard trophy, the Hawks win the Cup, and scores 15+ goals in the playoffs, I think there will be teams willing to spend 10 million/year and even turn over the top end of their rosters to sign him in the summer.

If Kovy goes to Chicago, he will be there to scores goals only, especially on the PP... not to play defense, not for leadership.
That's a lot of assuming there my friend. Just because a team gets a superstar at the deadline doesn't mean ANYTHING. Just ask Ray Shero if you don't believe me.

You forget that Kovalchuk isn't the kind of guy that just sits back and takes orders. He's the type of player that likes to lead, and lead by example. He wants to be the voice of a team and that's why he wears the C right now. He's not a role player. He's a two way forward and a leader.

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01-10-2010, 03:52 PM
  #222
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How about:

Brown, Teubert, and a 1st in 2011?

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01-10-2010, 03:54 PM
  #223
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Man I was unaware that GM's read hfboards

BWC is 100% correct

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01-10-2010, 03:57 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
If Boston is in the market, they probably have some of the more tangible assets. Though I would have to figure they would probably be in the rental side of the deal if they look to make the move. Unless they deal significant salary (and the Toronto 1st might constitute some salary being dealt) I would imagine fitting him in would be tough.
There would be virtually zero chance the B's could extend Kovalchuk without completely gutting the team -- which they refused to do for Kessel. Therefore it would purely be a rental...but even then, the Bruins would likely need to drop some salary to fit Kovy in. However, the B's don't really have much 'dead weight' they'd like to jettison. Bergeron, Ryder, & Sturm are probably the most overpaid but they're all heavily relied on so losing them would be counter-productive (plus Sturm has a NTC). They can afford to lose a defenseman (once everyone is healthy) but Ference & Hunwick only make $1.4MM so they aren't going to clear enough room and losing Wideman ($3.8MM) IMO would hurt worse than some B's fans think.

Long story short, I don't see the Bruins acquiring Kovalchuk.

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01-10-2010, 03:57 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Randolph42 View Post
You forget that Kovalchuk isn't the kind of guy that just sits back and takes orders. He's the type of player that likes to lead, and lead by example. He wants to be the voice of a team and that's why he wears the C right now. He's not a role player. He's a two way forward and a leader.
I think he is mature and smart enough to suck it up for a few months of playoff hockey without a letter on his jersey and keep in mind that he has the potential to cash in on a $100M plus contract by doing just one thing: scoring goals.

EDIT: besides, it's not like Kovy has had a lot of playoff experience...some star players choke in the playoffs..for Kovy on the Hawks, he gets to keep it really simple.


Last edited by who_me?: 01-10-2010 at 04:05 PM.
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