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Old
01-19-2010, 12:30 PM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
He wouldn't be paid. He'd lose about $3.2MM were the Rangers to suspend him for the season. From his perspective, it might force the Rangers' hand.

I have no idea how it would impact the cap (whether his number would count or not).
Who doesn't count against the cap?
During the season: Players assigned to the minors - even if on one-way contracts - do not count (as long as they are not on conditioning assignments or fit the condition of 50.5(d)(i)(B)(5) above) as well as players signed to a contract that are in Major Junior hockey or overseas. Players suspended by either the team or the NHL will not count for the duration of the suspension as long as the player is not receiving his salary; however, teams must keep enough payroll space available to be able to accept the player should his suspension end immediately.

During the offseason: players signed to a 2-way contract but who were not on an NHL roster at any point during the previous season, and any player not under contract. That's it - everyone else counts as described above.

^^ taken from : http://www.nhlscap.com/cap_faq.htm

So yes, it potentially could count. The CBA's not very clear on what happens if a player refuses assignment.. I doubt something like that's actually ever happened.

But honestly, do you think redden's going to forfeit millions of dollars out of "pride"? All he has to do is intentionally screw his AHL team and he won't even have to lift a finger to collect his massive paychecks. Healthy scratch every game...

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01-19-2010, 12:32 PM
  #127
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I just can't see Redden getting sent down, no matter how much sense it makes. The only reason he'd be sent down is because Sather agreed to a bad signing and he has the money to pay him while he's in the minors. And if sent down, that's the end of his career as bringing him up, then being claimed will cost the Rangers $3.25MM per for nothing. If that's going to be the case, perhaps they do what they feel would be more honorable and that's buy him out, allowing him to sign elsewhere and remain in the NHL. As much sense as it makes to send him down and eat the costs, with nothing against the cap, I don't see Sather doing that.

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01-19-2010, 12:33 PM
  #128
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Honestly, if redden were to be assigned to the AHL, there'd probably be a negotation between the team and him so that he wouldn't actually have to play to begin with..

In effect it'd be him retiring but still getting paid in full for the remainder of his contract.

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01-19-2010, 12:40 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f2d View Post
Who doesn't count against the cap?
During the season: Players assigned to the minors - even if on one-way contracts - do not count (as long as they are not on conditioning assignments or fit the condition of 50.5(d)(i)(B)(5) above) as well as players signed to a contract that are in Major Junior hockey or overseas. Players suspended by either the team or the NHL will not count for the duration of the suspension as long as the player is not receiving his salary; however, teams must keep enough payroll space available to be able to accept the player should his suspension end immediately.

During the offseason: players signed to a 2-way contract but who were not on an NHL roster at any point during the previous season, and any player not under contract. That's it - everyone else counts as described above.

^^ taken from : http://www.nhlscap.com/cap_faq.htm

So yes, it potentially could count. The CBA's not very clear on what happens if a player refuses assignment.. I doubt something like that's actually ever happened.

But honestly, do you think redden's going to forfeit millions of dollars out of "pride"? All he has to do is intentionally screw his AHL team and he won't even have to lift a finger to collect his massive paychecks. Healthy scratch every game...
I just remember how pissed he was at being scratched earlier this season. Even though the guy is a shell of his former self, he's still an NHL-caliber player, and we know he has pride. Refusing the assignment would put the Rangers in a tough spot--from what you said, they wouldn't be able to add the equivalent of his salary since they'd have to have space were his suspension to end. That's a gray area though, so I'm not sure if that's the case. Either way, it would create a nasty situation and might give the Rangers impetus to offer a buyout or something. I don't know, just speculating.

As far as whether this actually happens, it does. Enver Lisin refused his assignment a few years ago, for instance. He was suspended and played the rest of the year in Russia. There was talk that Mathieu Schneider might refuse assignment after he was waived earlier this season. He ended up accepting, but it was a real possibility.

I don't know if those circumstances are the same or not, or if Wade would consider this route, but it seems plausible to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f2d View Post
Honestly, if redden were to be assigned to the AHL, there'd probably be a negotation between the team and him so that he wouldn't actually have to play to begin with..

In effect it'd be him retiring but still getting paid in full for the remainder of his contract.
And this is me speculating again, but I'd be absolutely stunned if Wade were willing to basically retire. I think the way he reacted to his benching earlier this year made it pretty clear he wants to keep playing and thinks he still has lots to offer. I mean he's only 32.

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01-19-2010, 12:46 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Yes, he is. Its really his biggest problem and has been since the post-lockout era began.

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that hes one of the slowest skaters in the NHL.
Then I disagree.

He is an average skater in the NHL.

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If Redden and Drury made what Girardi and Callahan do they would be hailed on here as gritty, sacrificing players who always put the team first.

But because they make 6.5 - 7 mil a year...they are no doubt just money grubbing wastes of flesh...
Pretty much.

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01-19-2010, 12:46 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
And if sent down, that's the end of his career as bringing him up, then being claimed will cost the Rangers $3.25MM per for nothing. I
I think it's only over for the season Fletch. If he won a spot out of camp next season, he wouldn't have to be "recalled" from a re-assignment the previous season first, would he?

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01-19-2010, 12:51 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I think it's only over for the season Fletch. If he won a spot out of camp next season, he wouldn't have to be "recalled" from a re-assignment the previous season first, would he?
That is true that he would be able to be brought up the next offseason in camp but how much of a chance do you see the team giving him when he makes 6.5 million against the cap? That would mean Sather would have to leave that much space in the offseason just in case Redden showed up and played well. The team would move on I am sure of it and it would be pretty much the end of his career.

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01-19-2010, 12:57 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Yes, he is. Its really his biggest problem and has been since the post-lockout era began.

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that hes one of the slowest skaters in the NHL.
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that you don't know what you're talking about.

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01-19-2010, 01:03 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
That is true that he would be able to be brought up the next offseason in camp but how much of a chance do you see the team giving him when he makes 6.5 million against the cap? That would mean Sather would have to leave that much space in the offseason just in case Redden showed up and played well. The team would move on I am sure of it and it would be pretty much the end of his career.
I'm assuming he's coming back and playing again each season.

You'd basically be able to "borrow" $6.5M in cap space for rentals at the time he's demoted, if you were inclined to do so for a playoff run.

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01-19-2010, 01:04 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post

As far as whether this actually happens, it does. Enver Lisin refused his assignment a few years ago, for instance. He was suspended and played the rest of the year in Russia. There was talk that Mathieu Schneider might refuse assignment after he was waived earlier this season. He ended up accepting, but it was a real possibility.

Do you remember what happened with his cap space?

Granted, his pay is tiny so it probably wasn't a big deal.. but was the cap space usable at the time or no?

I don't think there's precedent for a major contract being sent to the minors and refused

I think the next round of CBA discussions will definitely have a less painful way of dumping lousy contracts..

Well, one thing we could always do is buy him out and then start making egregious 10 - 15 year cap cheat contracts...

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01-19-2010, 01:04 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I'm assuming he's coming back and playing again each season.

You'd basically be able to "borrow" $6.5M in cap space for rentals at the time he's demoted, if you were inclined to do so for a playoff run.
It is possible but with Sather here I would imagine that if he had a chance to spend another 6.5 million he would.

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01-19-2010, 01:05 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that you don't know what you're talking about.
Youve already proved that you have an irrational love for the guy. I admitted hes a 3rd pairing guy, and thats all youll get from me. I think its time for you to let the adults take care of this one.

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01-19-2010, 01:08 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f2d View Post
Do you remember what happened with his cap space?

Granted, his pay is tiny so it probably wasn't a big deal.. but was the cap space usable at the time or no?

I don't think there's precedent for a major contract being sent to the minors and refused

I think the next round of CBA discussions will definitely have a less painful way of dumping lousy contracts..

Well, one thing we could always do is buy him out and then start making egregious 10 - 15 year cap cheat contracts...
Hahah, nah, I have no idea what happened regarding the cap space. I didn't even know about that happening until we got Lisin and it was discussed.

As to the part in bold--I don't know that there's precedent for a major contract being sent to the minors, period. There's the bit with Nylander, but that's been hard to follow. He did a conditioning stint in the AHL, and then was waived, but wasn't sent down for well over a month. Did he refuse? I don't know, again, I wasn't really following it. I'm sure RB or someone will have the scoop.

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01-19-2010, 01:13 PM
  #139
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Only the rangers would come anywhere close to even thinking about sending a 6.5 million $ / year player to the AHL...

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01-19-2010, 01:21 PM
  #140
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If and it's a big if that we send Redden to the minors for the remainder of the season at some point, he gets bought out in the off-season IMO. Just too much conflict/controversy to be dealt with if we tried to keep him in the AHL and have him play the remainder of his contract there.

He had an issue with being a healthy scratch for one game. He's not going to take a demotion to the AHL lying down. He has too much pride. Rangers will have to bite the bullet on this one, IMO

And if Redden refused assignment I'm guessing we still wouldn't be on the hook for his cap hit, so honestly, what difference would it make?

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01-19-2010, 01:22 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I'm assuming he's coming back and playing again each season.

You'd basically be able to "borrow" $6.5M in cap space for rentals at the time he's demoted, if you were inclined to do so for a playoff run.
I really doubt Redden would be cool with getting sent down to Hartford each year when the time came to get serious about a playoff push

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01-19-2010, 01:35 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Youve already proved that you have an irrational love for the guy. I admitted hes a 3rd pairing guy, and thats all youll get from me. I think its time for you to let the adults take care of this one.
Haha, what a stupid ****ing post.

I've been bashing Redden left and right lately for his terrible play since coming back from injury.

Get a clue, man. I bash the guy when needed and praise him when needed. At least I can have an objective opinion on a player. You calling him one of the slowest players in the league is one of the dumbest things that could've been posted. Does he have great acceleration or top end speed? Not at all. But he's decidedly average and not anything worse.

I don't know why I have to sit here and explain things around here to some posters all the time. Your irrational hate for Redden is about as sad as Sting's hate for him and offda's weird love for Lisin. It's just sad.

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01-19-2010, 01:41 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
If and it's a big if that we send Redden to the minors for the remainder of the season at some point, he gets bought out in the off-season IMO. Just too much conflict/controversy to be dealt with if we tried to keep him in the AHL and have him play the remainder of his contract there.

He had an issue with being a healthy scratch for one game. He's not going to take a demotion to the AHL lying down. He has too much pride. Rangers will have to bite the bullet on this one, IMO

And if Redden refused assignment I'm guessing we still wouldn't be on the hook for his cap hit, so honestly, what difference would it make?
I just can't see a buyout. 8 years carrying a cap hit for this guy. At the least we need to wait 2 more years before buying him out.

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01-19-2010, 01:41 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I really doubt Redden would be cool with getting sent down to Hartford each year when the time came to get serious about a playoff push
Luckily for us, what Redden is cool with doesn't matter.

Why is there a concern for the precedent this will set? If the precedent is "if you sign with the Rangers and produce absolutely nothing while playing with no passion you'll be banished to the AHL" then I am ok with that precedent. Our UFA ratio is not good. For every Gaborik there is 4 Drury, Redden, Kotalik, Gomez etc. Lets stop trying to build the core of our team through free agency. If UFA's don't wanna come here that may be a good thing. Save us from ourselves.

Also, didn't we essentially do this already with Rissmiller? Gave the guy a 3 year contract then sent him to Hartford to play out the 3 years in the AHL.

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01-19-2010, 01:43 PM
  #145
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BTW, for any fool saying Redden's problem is his speed, his real problem is in front of the net. He's lost when the play is in traffic. Redden is very good when he has ample room and time to make plays. As soon as the play gets congested, he wanders around aimlessly.

But slow? No. That's just an idiotic thing to say.

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01-19-2010, 01:45 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
Luckily for us, what Redden is cool with doesn't matter.

Why is there a concern for the precedent this will set? If the precedent is "if you sign with the Rangers and produce absolutely nothing while playing with no passion you'll be banished to the AHL" then I am ok with that precedent. Our UFA ratio is not good. For every Gaborik there is 4 Drury, Redden, Kotalik, Gomez etc. Lets stop trying to build the core of our team through free agency. If UFA's don't wanna come here that may be a good thing. Save us from ourselves.

Also, didn't we essentially do this already with Rissmiller? Gave the guy a 3 year contract then sent him to Hartford to play out the 3 years in the AHL.
Yeah we did, we paid him 3 million over 3 years to play like 2 NHL games. Dumbass signing..

But that's only a $1M / season contract.. shipping a 6.5M / year contract to the AHL is much bigger of a deal and will get much more publicity.

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01-19-2010, 01:47 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
BTW, for any fool saying Redden's problem is his speed, his real problem is in front of the net. He's lost when the play is in traffic. Redden is very good when he has ample room and time to make plays. As soon as the play gets congested, he wanders around aimlessly.

But slow? No. That's just an idiotic thing to say.
He struggles more with mental speed than physical speed, it seems.

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01-19-2010, 01:48 PM
  #148
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Whats the cap in the minors? I find it hard to believe that you can get rid of someone by burying them in the minors and their cap hit goes away. Takes away the risk of offering a big contract.

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01-19-2010, 01:51 PM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
I just can't see a buyout. 8 years carrying a cap hit for this guy. At the least we need to wait 2 more years before buying him out.
would you rather count his full contract against the cap? $2mil of dead cap space most years(~$4mil for 2 years)...sounds very similar to what I'd call Kotalik and Brashear anyway.

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01-19-2010, 01:52 PM
  #150
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I think it's long overdue from a business standpoint, but human beings are involved.

The Rangers will only do this if they can line up a big fish at the deadline.
But I can't see Redden on the books for next season, let alone the next 4. Maybe this becomes the instigator for the CBA being changed to allow team to eat money in trades or renegotiate contracts.

As for what Redden will do it it happens, who knows? I guess he will go to the AHL and collect his paycheck for the rest of the season.

Then he will either retire, be loaned to Europe, or hope for some relief from the CBA. But most likely, the Rangers will have to find the middle ground between business and personal and buy him out. I doubt anyone would take him on re-entry waivers, even.
Then Redden will sign with a team for about $1 million.

Just my take.

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