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Re: Forward Thinking & Hemsky/Penner

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01-11-2010, 12:20 PM
  #1
HFPM
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Re: Forward Thinking & Hemsky/Penner

With this season in the tank, and the future looking cloudy for the Oilers, this year's draft is paramount for laying the foundation for any sort of time period beyond this year. As everyone knows, the Oilers need to clear salary and stockpile picks + prospects. There's no better way to do this than turf veterans and wheel and deal. But bloated salaries and poor performances, are hampering these efforts.

There's a few interesting scenarios around the league that could play out by season's end. Boston is one of those, possessing Toronto's 1st rounder (and likely 3-7 position overall). They're interesting in the sense that they have a few nice prospects coming up, but not one that's a can't-miss world beater. But most importantly, they're having trouble putting the puck in the net. Marc Savard can't stay healthy, and Patrice Bergeron is out for a few weeks. The Bruins are 2nd last in the league in goals, and it's hurting them big time. Miroslav Satan isn't going to fix it.

My first proposition is to consider dealing Hemsky to Boston for something centered around their 1st round pick and one season of Michael Ryder. This affords Boston the cap space to take on Hemsky's lovely contract and still be in decent shape going forward. Ryder is a UFA after next season and would be a necessary evil to acquire Boston's (via Toronto) 1st this year.

Hemsky's been an enigma all his career. When he's on, he makes us go crazy. When he's not, he slacks off and fades away into the background and incites anger in a lot of us. This isn't the guy you build teams around. He doesn't get the job done. Boston on the other hand, would be overjoyed to both unload Michael Ryder's ugly contract, and the acquire a playmaker with an above average shot. It's not an ideal fit for the Bruins with Marc Savard already in the fold, but I think it's something that's quite possible.

A similar deal could be made with Penner in Hemsky's stead. Boston could use more depth on the left wing, and Penner can score the goals they so desperately need. The cap hits for both Penner and Ryder are very similar, so this isn't out of the air of possibility either.

With this deal being made, the door is then opened for the opportunity to draft both Taylor Hall, and another top 7 prospect (be it Cam Fowler, Neiderreider or someone else). There's also a possibility that this pick could be used to trade down, and pile up some picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. This would help along the rebuild and clear some salary off come 2011.

Consider it food for thought if the Oilers continue down their current course.

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01-11-2010, 12:34 PM
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joestevens29
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I thought about the Hemsky for Ryder and the 1st yesterday, but depending on where Toronto is I'm not sure the Bruins move the pick. Why would they? If they have a crack at a top 3 pick that is exactly what they need, a cheap skilled young player. Somehow I don't see them moving that pick until the draft if at all.

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01-11-2010, 12:37 PM
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Most people here seem to operate under the assumption that both Hemmer and Penner will leave as soon as their contracts expire. If we land elite talent through the draft, why wouldn't they at least consider staying? That said I would look very closely at any deal that could get us TOs pick - having 2 picks in the top 5 would be great. In a cap world, teams (BOS) are always looking for cheap talent that outperform their contracts to fill in the gaps on their expensive rosters. I doubt they consider trading it.

They might do it for Hemsky, but why would we trade a PPG player and one of our best contracts? If we get rid of *all* our vets, and have all the same aged players, by the time the teams reaches its prime, they will all be too expensive to keep. Why start from scratch?

I don't think teams can do full rebuilds anymore with RFA prices gone up, and players becoming UFAs in only 7 years.

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01-11-2010, 12:41 PM
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I'm open to the idea. Moreso Penner than Hemsky though. I think Boston likes Penner over Hemsky as well. Penner would fill a void they lack more than a void Hemsky could fill. I also wonder if Boston has any desire for Chara's Slovakian counterpart in Visnovsky. If they play incredible together at the Olympics, I could see Boston calling.

Boston is in a pretty decent spot to build a quality team come playoffs. They are in the win-now mode as I see it and that comes with selling off picks and prospects for quality players. However, I don't seeing them moving Toronto's pick. Possibly they could move Toronto's 2011 and their own 2010 1st rounder. Ryder is a contract I could handle for a year as well bearing another top 5 pick.

Ideally if Lowebellini had some balls, they'd attempt it atleast.

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01-11-2010, 12:46 PM
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The Oilers are rebuilding so lets get rid of the younger players just coming into thier prime? THat makes so much sense.

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01-11-2010, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I thought about the Hemsky for Ryder and the 1st yesterday, but depending on where Toronto is I'm not sure the Bruins move the pick. Why would they? If they have a crack at a top 3 pick that is exactly what they need, a cheap skilled young player. Somehow I don't see them moving that pick until the draft if at all.
Because they are in a win now mode. A prospect that isn't a sure fire Crosby/AO doesn't halp them win a cup. They have the players now and the salary now.

I am sure Boston would move that pick if it put them a big step closer to the SC this year.

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01-11-2010, 12:50 PM
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why would boston want hemsky for TO's 1st if Hemsky is going to be ZERO help for them in the PO's and they have to give up a roster player as well?

doesn't make sense from BOS's standpoint whatsoever

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01-11-2010, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Live Breathe Hockey View Post
why would boston want hemsky for TO's 1st if Hemsky is going to be ZERO help for them in the PO's and they have to give up a roster player as well?

doesn't make sense from BOS's standpoint whatsoever
First of all this thread is stupid. If they couldn't sign Kessel at that money what makes you think they'd want to sign Hemsky at similar money?

2nd what exactly do you mean by ZERO help? Check the record buddy Hemsky is clutch.

I really get irate having to put up with some of the heat Hemsky has to take. Where has Dustin Penner gone since Hemmer's gone down? WE have a $5.5 million dollar player with less points than Hemsky while playing DOUBLE the games. OH right but Horcoff isn't European so we can let it slide. Horcoff is also one of the league worst in +/- at -20.

Give Hemsky a break. I really hope he leaves when he is UFA. The fans show no appreciation.

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01-11-2010, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jeetz View Post
Because they are in a win now mode. A prospect that isn't a sure fire Crosby/AO doesn't halp them win a cup. They have the players now and the salary now.

I am sure Boston would move that pick if it put them a big step closer to the SC this year.
There is a good chance that Hall could put up similar numbers to Hemsky next year. I really don't think Boston makes this move. Not now anyways.

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01-11-2010, 01:14 PM
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The biggest issue with this proposal is Hemsky is out for the season (come playoff time who knows) the idea of trading a healthy winger for a winger who *might* be ready for the playoffs is a major risk, Boston is already weak on the wings and trading Ryder does not help that situation what-so-ever. Boston is first and formost looking to solidify themselves as a top 4 playoff seed as a 5-8 seed would be an ideal opponent in a weaker eastern conference, an injured Hemsky will not help them do this while a healthy Ryder is certianly better than nothing. Also I don't think Toronto's pick is avaliable, Boston's 1st on the other hand is.

Now Penner, is probably the most valuable asset the Oiler's have, he is playing like a top 30 player in the league and any playoff team would be interesting in aquiring a huge, injury-free (as well as no injury history), Stanley cup winning, scoring Winger at a mere 4.25 million cap hit.

At the same time the Oiler's have this exact player signed until 2012, why would the Oiler's be interested in trading such a player to get a pick/prospect? I am all for a rebuild, but trading a player who is finally starting to show what he was aquired for is just bad business (invest in a product and when it finally is starting to bring in a profit sell it for another potential profit earning product?)

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01-11-2010, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MerryJ99 View Post
The Oilers are rebuilding so lets get rid of the younger players just coming into thier prime? THat makes so much sense.
Yeah that sort of sounds like what Florida tried to do a couple times with predictably very little success. Develop and grow some good young players, as soon as they are in or about to hit their prime trade them off and rarely get good or proper value in return. What if the lottery tickets (draft picks) you get end up being busts or fringe players? It is a fairly large size gamble.

I think most would rather have a 2-4 year rebuild rather than a 5-8 year type rebuild. Then hope when those young players get good that you do not just trade them off all over again and start an endless cycle.

I am all for clearing out some declining and/or overly expensive vets like Moreau, Staios, Souray etc... But I think you have to be careful about how far you go with it.

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01-11-2010, 01:23 PM
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2nd what exactly do you mean by ZERO help? Check the record buddy Hemsky is clutch.
Hemsky had a season-ending injury, scheduled to return sometime late May/early June. He'll hardly be in game shape at that point. You don't trade for a guy who's been on the IR for 6 months and expect him to be a gamechanger.

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01-11-2010, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Oilerdiehard View Post
Yeah that sort of sounds like what Florida tried to do a couple times with predictably very little success. Develop and grow some good young players, as soon as they are in or about to hit their prime trade them off and rarely get good or proper value in return. What if the lottery tickets (draft picks) you get end up being busts or fringe players? It is a fairly large size gamble.

I think most would rather have a 2-4 year rebuild rather than a 5-8 year type rebuild. Then hope when those young players get good that you do not just trade them off all over again and start an endless cycle.

I am all for clearing out some declining and/or overly expensive vets like Moreau, Staios, Souray etc... But I think you have to be careful about how far you go with it.
The thing that makes our rebuild different is that we are already on our way to the rebuild with guys like Eberle, MPS, Omark and others in the system. Plus we also have guys like Cogliano and Gagner who are young and are in the NHL.

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01-11-2010, 01:29 PM
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We have no one that replaces Hemsky on the team
We have no one that plays the same game as Penner on the team
Penner-Seguin-Hemsky or Hall-Penner-Hemsky is the way to go in future..

BOS wont trade that pick unless its for a signed Kovalchuk.. Their own 1st should get them any rental player they want.

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01-11-2010, 01:34 PM
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If the Oilers get Hall/Seguin, they should start working on an extension for Hemsky. Penner, I'd take more of a wait and see approach with due to his inconsistency. He might be a valuable piece going forward or a good trading chip down the road.

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01-11-2010, 01:37 PM
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The thing that makes our rebuild different is that we are already on our way to the rebuild with guys like Eberle, MPS, Omark and others in the system. Plus we also have guys like Cogliano and Gagner who are young and are in the NHL.
You still need a vet core to lead the way. It takes a considerable amount of time for these young players to develop and gain that experience. I mean look we have 3 seasons in to Cogs and Gags. Look at an example like Smid, he is rounding into form nicely now, but he is 5 seasons deep into his pro career to get there. I like the potential of Eberle, MPS and Omark, but they are still question marks at the NHL level and will need a few years experience under their belt to really lead the team anywhere.

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01-11-2010, 01:40 PM
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First of all this thread is stupid. If they couldn't sign Kessel at that money what makes you think they'd want to sign Hemsky at similar money?

2nd what exactly do you mean by ZERO help? Check the record buddy Hemsky is clutch.

I really get irate having to put up with some of the heat Hemsky has to take. Where has Dustin Penner gone since Hemmer's gone down? WE have a $5.5 million dollar player with less points than Hemsky while playing DOUBLE the games. OH right but Horcoff isn't European so we can let it slide. Horcoff is also one of the league worst in +/- at -20.

Give Hemsky a break. I really hope he leaves when he is UFA. The fans show no appreciation.
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Horcoff is getting a free ride.

Off the top of my head, most people that don't feel Horcoff is utterly useless are also people that think Hemsky is great value for his contract.

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01-11-2010, 01:44 PM
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You still need a vet core to lead the way. It takes a considerable amount of time for these young players to develop and gain that experience. I mean look we have 3 seasons in to Cogs and Gags. Look at an example like Smid, he is rounding into form nicely now, but he is 5 seasons deep into his pro career to get there. I like the potential of Eberle, MPS and Omark, but they are still question marks at the NHL level and will need a few years experience under their belt to really lead the team anywhere.
Not saying that we should dress all rookies, but I'm saying it's not like we have to start from scratch and draft a bunch of players. We have some of the building chips already.

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01-11-2010, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Fleury1474 View Post
First of all this thread is stupid. If they couldn't sign Kessel at that money what makes you think they'd want to sign Hemsky at similar money?

2nd what exactly do you mean by ZERO help? Check the record buddy Hemsky is clutch.

I really get irate having to put up with some of the heat Hemsky has to take. Where has Dustin Penner gone since Hemmer's gone down? WE have a $5.5 million dollar player with less points than Hemsky while playing DOUBLE the games. OH right but Horcoff isn't European so we can let it slide. Horcoff is also one of the league worst in +/- at -20.

Give Hemsky a break. I really hope he leaves when he is UFA. The fans show no appreciation.
How exactly do you propose hemsky help the bruins in the PO's when he's done for the season with an injury?

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01-11-2010, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Live Breathe Hockey View Post
How exactly do you propose hemsky help the bruins in the PO's when he's done for the season with an injury?
Even if he's in the press box, he would be a good cheerleader for his new Bruins teamates.

And then they would say "Hey, let's win the Stanley Cup for Hemsky", and with this motivation, I can see them winning it all...

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01-11-2010, 09:41 PM
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Penner/Hemsky + Gilbert for NYI's pick if it's 10th or better.

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01-11-2010, 11:15 PM
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How exactly do you propose hemsky help the bruins in the PO's when he's done for the season with an injury?

When he was first injured they were saying he could be back in time for the beginning of the playoffs.

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01-12-2010, 11:15 AM
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So, despite the fact that Hemsky's out for the season, it's a stupid thought?

He's still signed for another year, and very well could be extended if he takes to Boston.

Do you think the Leafs cared that Kessel was out for the first 2 months of the season? It's all about the future.

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01-12-2010, 11:20 AM
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Was Kessel injured when he was traded?

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01-12-2010, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by hemskyforpm View Post
So, despite the fact that Hemsky's out for the season, it's a stupid thought?He's still signed for another year, and very well could be extended if he takes to Boston.

Do you think the Leafs cared that Kessel was out for the first 2 months of the season? It's all about the future.
in that case it would be stupid for BOS to trade away that pick for Hemsky..
Hemsky becomes a UFA at the same time as Chara and Bergeron.. There is no way they'll be able to sign all 3.. getting a Seguin >> getting Hemsky especially if he cant help them in these playoffs.

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