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Old
01-11-2010, 06:27 PM
  #26
taunting canadian
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Originally Posted by Valic View Post
UFA's are generally who gets traded on deadline day. Basically good teams spending near the cap can fit in a veteran or two. They will get more than an equal player because it won't affect the already decent team's (playoff bound) financial commitments next year.
Impending UFAs who have known major injury/health concerns, though? I don't really know how much interest there will be in guys like Comrie and Pisani. To some extent it depends on whether the guys are able to come back, play consistently for a while before the trade deadline, and show some ability to contribute.

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Old
01-11-2010, 06:29 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Asher View Post
Unless his game falls to pieces next season, I think you'd get more in a year than you for him now. I'd be willing to wait until then.
Staios? He's on his last legs as it is. Best to move him for a pick to a bubble team (Atlanta, Ottawa, Phoenix, Nashville) at this year's deadline.

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Old
01-11-2010, 06:51 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
What do you consider the "Core"?

Staios
Moreau
Horcoff
Pisani
Hemsky
That would be my "Core". This team doesn't have much of a core right now, and it needs to build one using its young players.

Why? Staios and Moreau are both UFA's after next season so they will be gone then for sure. Do you plan on contending for the cup next season? What would be wrong with letting things play their course? What do you expect to get for these core players who are not good enough for your team?
What you just liseted I consider to be the old core so to speak, I have no false notions about cup runs next year. I'd much rather the team take 2 or 3 (Hell 4 if it takes that long to do it right. But hopfully not much longer then that) years to draft high and build a new solid core. At this point I'm pretty much for trading basicly anyone, but I'd like to see at least 2 of those vets traded and 1 or 2 of the "smurfs". Imo we cannot afford to have more then 2 forwards under 6' feet.

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Old
01-11-2010, 07:41 PM
  #29
I am the Liquor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAlexander View Post
Nyet.

Maintaining the status quo on a sinking ship is a bad plan.

You identify your timeframe to win and then adjust your asset management strategy accordingly.

There's a ton of players on this team right now that help the Oilers be more competitive in 3 years if they're out the door this year.

Perhaps you can't make a lot of headway moving those assets out due to market conditions, but you damn well do everything you can to make it happen.

And if Tambellini doesn't employ this type of a strategy I'll be an unhappy camper.
This is what I am thinking. There could be a lot of disappointed campers this summer. I think instead of saying you need to make a planned timeline, I believe you need to be able to have a plan, but it may have to be supplemented with a plan b, c, d, etc... as your roster movement will be dictated in large part by other teams.

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Old
01-11-2010, 07:50 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live Breathe Hockey View Post
I'd be ok as long as those minor moves include the moving of
Staios
Moreau
Pisani
Comrie

I think for Sourays case, as I'm sure he'd love to get out now, he'll be moved this year imo
Yeah these are the moves I am hoping for as well. Though I am fine with Pies returning as long the contract is something like 700k. Otherwise let him walk if he wants much more.

Obviously if they can not get anything for Pisani and Comrie. Then they are off the books at the end of the season anyway. It is Staios and especially Moreau I want to see moved most.

Otherwise I would not be worried if much of the rest of the team stays the same. Strudwick is getting too old and ineffective, so he needs to be let go as well.

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Old
01-11-2010, 07:58 PM
  #31
Andy Martin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
This is what I am thinking. There could be a lot of disappointed campers this summer. I think instead of saying you need to make a planned timeline, I believe you need to be able to have a plan, but it may have to be supplemented with a plan b, c, d, etc... as your roster movement will be dictated in large part by other teams.
This should always be the case, no?

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Old
01-11-2010, 10:38 PM
  #32
Gret99zky
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Some would suggest a complete "gutting" is needed in order for a new core with a new attitude to be implimented over the next two seasons.

As many new faces as possible.

A complete rebuild.

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Old
01-11-2010, 10:57 PM
  #33
Dorian2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Martin View Post
Would be nice if he had the ability to match his heart.

Moreau is made of crackers and needs to go...quickly.
Are you calling Moreau a Cracker? Here is a Wikopedia explanation:

Quote:
A similar usage was that of Charles Darwin in his introduction to The Origin of Species, to refer to "Virginia squatters" (illegal settlers).[9]


Georgia Cracker label depicting a boy with peachesFrederick Law Olmsted, a prominent landscape architect from Connecticut, visited the South as a journalist in the 1850s and wrote that "some crackers owned a good many Negroes, and were by no means so poor as their appearance indicated

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Old
01-11-2010, 11:00 PM
  #34
Andy Martin
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Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
Are you calling Moreau a Cracker? Here is a Wikopedia explanation:
No I was referring more to the food item. As in brittle and easy to smash/crumble.

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Old
01-11-2010, 11:02 PM
  #35
Dorian2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Martin View Post
No I was referring more to the food item. As in brittle and easy to smash/crumble.
I know...just having a little fun here....everything seems so bleak on these threads lately

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Old
01-11-2010, 11:05 PM
  #36
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Before the start of the new season next year, I would like to see Moreau, Staois, Cogliano, Gilbert, Souray, Pisani, and Horcoff(not likely) gone or traded.

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Old
01-11-2010, 11:06 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live Breathe Hockey View Post
I'd be ok as long as those minor moves include the moving of
Staios
Moreau
Pisani
Comrie

I think for Sourays case, as I'm sure he'd love to get out now, he'll be moved this year imo
I agree with everything but Comrie, why not give him a chance? He wasn't too bad for a while.

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Old
01-11-2010, 11:12 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gret99zky View Post
Some would suggest a complete "gutting" is needed in order for a new core with a new attitude to be implimented over the next two seasons.

As many new faces as possible.

A complete rebuild.
I would suggest that would be wishful thinking. There are only so many moves that can be made each year in the cap era. Those wishing for a list of ten players to be gone by September are probably going to be in for disappointment.

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Old
01-11-2010, 11:16 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Martin View Post
This should always be the case, no?
Sure. People are suggesting that you identify a core group and build around that group with a goal of bringing everything together at the peak of thier performance/contracts/experience window. I am saying that is fine, but it may not go so smoothly as far as players moving in and out of the organization. There is but one way to build a team in the cap era, and that is from within.

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Old
01-11-2010, 11:24 PM
  #40
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I'll be 100% totally enraged if the Oilers don't make SUBSTANTIAL changes at the deadline.

This team is terrible. The team has been terrible to mediocre for years other than one brief spring spurt.

Even when totally healthy this team has shown they are not good enough.

We've been hearing the Oilers beak off about 'waiting until we are healthy' many times before.

We have some good young players but not enough.

If the Oilers do not purge at least one high cap player and a number of other guys (like a Staios) I'll throw my hands up in the air.

If people like the Status Quo to be what it has been (hanging around 8th and either barely making it in or not making it in) then more power to them. I want big change and if Tambellini fails to deliver I'll conclude he is Lowe version 2.0

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Old
01-11-2010, 11:49 PM
  #41
DangerMan
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I love it when Quinn talks about, "well THEY told me we had skill". Who the **** is THEY and what skill are they speaking of? I'm sure good ol' Pat is dying to find out.

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Old
01-12-2010, 12:04 AM
  #42
Andy Martin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
I'll be 100% totally enraged if the Oilers don't make SUBSTANTIAL changes at the deadline.

This team is terrible. The team has been terrible to mediocre for years other than one brief spring spurt.

Even when totally healthy this team has shown they are not good enough.

We've been hearing the Oilers beak off about 'waiting until we are healthy' many times before.

We have some good young players but not enough.

If the Oilers do not purge at least one high cap player and a number of other guys (like a Staios) I'll throw my hands up in the air.

If people like the Status Quo to be what it has been (hanging around 8th and either barely making it in or not making it in) then more power to them. I want big change and if Tambellini fails to deliver I'll conclude he is Lowe version 2.0
Prepare to be enraged.

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Old
01-12-2010, 12:16 AM
  #43
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Theres not currently a player on this club that I would not consider packaging for the right player/picks.

Well maybe Smid, Gagner, can stay..

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Old
01-12-2010, 12:17 AM
  #44
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Unload the vets so they can have a chance at winning elsewhere. Take draft picks and prospects in return while staying on the dive for a top 1st round pick.

Play the kids!

ie. Let's see what Peckham can do. We all know what Strudwick can't do.

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Old
01-12-2010, 12:25 AM
  #45
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This team just needs to address its needs by trading its excesses. More team defense, more team size, More F/O wins and better PKing.

They can address these by trading for some of it-- they have LOTS of speedy, small-ish skilled forwards. They have too many puck moving d-men. And some of their vets are playing the worst on the team...so move them as well. You move these pieces and try to address team needs and you're halfway there.

The other needs are to sign UFA vets who fit the team model better and to promote more prospects to the big club.

With something along those lines, they should be a contending team for the playoffs next year and as their young players develop more, the whole team should improve with them...

I don't think it needs an out and out gutting. Neither does Carolina-- just a big-ish shake-up for both of 'em.

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Old
01-12-2010, 12:29 AM
  #46
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please no status quo...this team would be barely scrapping by if healthy

time for management to purge this team...identify the core and trade as many vets and bad contracts as possible

I think we're stuck with Horc, Gilbert and Khabby....but maybe rid Moreau, Staios and Nilsson!

grab a Hall/Seguin/Fowler and start a proper re-build

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Old
01-12-2010, 12:50 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gret99zky View Post
Some would suggest a complete "gutting" is needed in order for a new core with a new attitude to be implimented over the next two seasons.

As many new faces as possible.

A complete rebuild.
I agree.

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Old
01-12-2010, 01:09 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Sure. People are suggesting that you identify a core group and build around that group with a goal of bringing everything together at the peak of thier performance/contracts/experience window. I am saying that is fine, but it may not go so smoothly as far as players moving in and out of the organization. There is but one way to build a team in the cap era, and that is from within.
It's certainly possible that things may not go so smoothly, but at some point if there is a reasonable enough expectation of change and it doesn't happen then there is a corresponding accountability that goes with that. Part of which could be completely justified fan dissatisfaction.

I think most of us can agree that this team is in a shambles (and obviously you and I already do), and with that being the case then this is unfortunately a drastic measures time. Read: we should be prepared to accept somewhat less than full value on some of those assets if that's all that can be garnered.

Maybe we can work at setting some of those reasonable expectations here, but from my standpoint there's no excuse that this team can't pull off 2-3 substantive (no Minard for MacIntyre types here) deals between now and summer free agency.

At least one of which is focused around Souray, for whom I find it highly unlikely that there isn't a solid market.

And at least another that waives bye bye to at least one of Pisani, Moreau or Staios.

You have to figure there's a strong chance that a third deal could be put together around Cogliano and one of the other young square pegs, ideally a Nilsson or Pouliot.

I don't think the prospect of getting deals like those done is at all unreasonable, nor that those deals I wouldn't produce at least one blue chip prospect in return and some complimentary assorted futures as well even if we're not getting premium value.

The examples don't chart exactly, but it's a decent enough starting comparison to look back at 03-04 when Washington was in a very similar situation (was that in this thread someone provided a nice detailed link?) and got a 1st, 2nd and Shaone Morissonn (at the time could basically still be considered a 1st rounder) for Gonchar.

All things considered I think the values of Gonchar then and Souray now are pretty comparable.

We should be able to get something similar done.

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Old
01-12-2010, 01:19 AM
  #49
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Souray would be attractive as far as skill set goes. Teams will want him. His contract could present a problem and narrow the prospective suitors accordingly. Add in his say so where he goes and that could be a very tough deal to make. Moving three players at the deadline is very ambitious indeed. I would be shocked if we could move that many.

Summer is a pretty big crapshoot as well. I do agree that it depends on how motivated management is in moving out players. We will have to be satisfied with little to no return on many of our players imo.

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Old
01-12-2010, 03:27 AM
  #50
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One year rebuilding

The problem with this team is a mental attitude. That means changes in veteran leadership.

I would trade just
Strudwick
Moreau
Pisani
Comrie
JDD (He is not veteran, but DD needs a place in the big team next year)

One of our smaller young forwards should be traded during the draft day to acquire another 1st round pick

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