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Kovalchuk discussion (RDS/TSN/Dreger: Deal Imminent; 5+ teams in it, Rangers one?)

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01-14-2010, 02:10 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
In hindsight it worked out for the Isles, but they really lucked out. It would be foolish for a rebuilding team to trade prospects and picks for a rental, only to sneak into the playoffs and get eliminated in the first round. Or not even make the playoffs at all. Which is why I believe it is a rumor as well, but hey, the Islanders have done things like this before.

And, as I said, the Islanders' package for Kovy would have to be substantially better than the Smyth package. The Islanders' didn't even include any roster players in that trade. The Thrashers would likely want Bailey or Okposo in return.
This is what I'm thinking, and these are two first line players you are trading. I am very high on Bailey, I think he has upside similiar to Marc Savard.

If the Isles trade Okposo(which I doubt, come on, future captain and one of the best young players in this game) I will seriously kill myself.

I ****ing love Okposo.

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Old
01-14-2010, 02:15 PM
  #52
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This is what I'm thinking, and these are two first line players you are trading. I am very high on Bailey, I think he has upside similiar to Marc Savard.

If the Isles trade Okposo(which I doubt, come on, future captain and one of the best young players in this game) I will seriously kill myself.

I ****ing love Okposo.
My thoughts on Kovalchuk: DO NOT WANT. If I were an Isles fan, I'd be beside myself.

From a Rangers perspective, we know that this guy is a premiere goal scorer. But is he worth the $10m (some even say $11m) that he reportedly wants? Absolutely not. He scores goals, nothing else.

A guy like Hossa, who can score you 40 goals and is capable in the defensive zone, could have been had for $7.5. (Chicago's cap circumvention aside...) Are Kovalchuk's next 15 goals worth $2.5m in valuable cap space? This question becomes especially imperative when the Rangers own cap situation is considered. Go ahead, ship Redden to the minors, we'd still need to find an EXTRA $4 MILLION. Crazy.

DISCLAIMER: Sorry if any of this has been said before, this is my first post on the topic and I really didn't feel like reading through 1000 posts.

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Old
01-14-2010, 02:46 PM
  #53
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Currently working against nyr2k2 on this project.

New thread starts at RB's rumor from 1/13. Old thread here: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=725238

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Old
01-14-2010, 03:05 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
Would you guys do Callahan, Girardi, Stepan and Grachev for Kovalchuk?

edit: Rozsival would also probably have to go the other way otherwise the numbers don't even remotely work out
Nope. I think that's too much of our future to give up for one player who will eat up a large portion of our cap, if we can even re-sign him.

I don't think we should trade for him at all. Odds are very good that he will be UFA on July 1st. If we have any intention of getting him, that's when we should do it. He isn't going to put us over the top this year, so there's no reason to give up valuable assets to get him.

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Old
01-14-2010, 03:14 PM
  #55
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trust me, the attendance is a HUGE issue...granted the team hadnt won a regulation game in like 2 months or something, but still, for the Rangers-Thrashers game, there were MAYBE 8,000 people there, and I bet you at least 1,000-1,500 were Ranger fans.
Wasnt there a snowstorm that night or something. I know they arent used to that in "Hotlanta" (jees i can't believe i just said that)

Anyway, whether or not that was the case, i never see anyone in that building anyway.

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Old
01-14-2010, 03:29 PM
  #56
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Wasnt there a snowstorm that night or something. I know they arent used to that in "Hotlanta" (jees i can't believe i just said that)

Anyway, whether or not that was the case, i never see anyone in that building anyway.
Just the mere threat of 1/2 an inch of snow is enough to make native Atlantans stock up on food and water and prepare for an impending apocalypse.

But, yeah, attendance has always been an issue with the Thrashers.

When I lived in Atlanta, it seemed like there were a decent amount of hockey fans there, but most of them were not Thrashers' fans. There's a lot of transplanted New Yorkers and other Northerners' living down there, which is why you see so many Rangers' fans there whenever the team plays in Atlanta.

Atlanta has and always will be a college football town (and baseball and college basketball when the Braves and GA Tech are doing well). An argument can be made that hockey doesn't belong in the South, but I think a lot of the Thrashers' woes have to do with ownership problems and front office mismanagement. If the Thrashers had some consecutive playoff runs or were a cup contender, I think sports fans in Atlanta would be more willing to embrace them.

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01-14-2010, 03:33 PM
  #57
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I'd have to agree but I don't think ATL bites on that.
If they did that would be the second miracle trade in 1 year for Slats.

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Old
01-14-2010, 04:11 PM
  #58
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If I'm Kovalchuk, I would want to wait until the offseason. Short of injury, he'll get paid more and he won't have to go to a depleted team.

If he wants to win the Cup, he's better off joining a team that paid nothing to get him from Atlanta.

Say he joins the Rangers, who would trade Rosie & Kotalik (and won't resign Higgins) to get the cap space.

The Rangers would be massively better immediately. The team would have 3 superstars (Kovalchuk, Gabby and Lundqvist), as well as a solid group of support players.

But if the Rangers had to give up Staal and Dubinsky for Kovalchuk? Suddenly, the team would have glaring holes on defense and the second line.

If Kovalchuk replaces Kotalik, Higgins and Rosie, this team is an immediate contender.

If Kovalchuk replaces Dubinsky, Higgins and Kotalik up front, and Staal plus Rosie on defense, the team would have massive holes.

Two players like Dubinsky and Staal would be the difference between contending for the Cup and contending for the second round in the playoffs.

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01-14-2010, 04:29 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
If I'm Kovalchuk, I would want to wait until the offseason. Short of injury, he'll get paid more and he won't have to go to a depleted team.

If he wants to win the Cup, he's better off joining a team that paid nothing to get him from Atlanta.

Say he joins the Rangers, who would trade Rosie & Kotalik (and won't resign Higgins) to get the cap space.

The Rangers would be massively better immediately. The team would have 3 superstars (Kovalchuk, Gabby and Lundqvist), as well as a solid group of support players.

But if the Rangers had to give up Staal and Dubinsky for Kovalchuk? Suddenly, the team would have glaring holes on defense and the second line.

If Kovalchuk replaces Kotalik, Higgins and Rosie, this team is an immediate contender.

If Kovalchuk replaces Dubinsky, Higgins and Kotalik up front, and Staal plus Rosie on defense, the team would have massive holes.

Two players like Dubinsky and Staal would be the difference between contending for the Cup and contending for the second round in the playoffs.
Youre missing one big thing here... that Atlanta doesnt want to lose him for peanuts.

I see what you are saying but its not up to Kovalchuk. Everything has to work for all teams and I dont think its going to happen. Similar Big name free agents have either stayed with their current team because the right deal wasnt worked out, or they sign an extension. I think the only way the Rangers realistically get this guy, is if he stays with Atlanta and signs as a free agent (after the Rangers do some serious housekeeping).

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Old
01-14-2010, 04:59 PM
  #60
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Youre missing one big thing here... that Atlanta doesnt want to lose him for peanuts.
Which is why he can get traded and then sign with a team that didn't get screwed in the offseason

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Old
01-14-2010, 05:11 PM
  #61
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Which is why he can get traded and then sign with a team that didn't get screwed in the offseason
Or, he could pull a Tkachuk and re-sign with Atlanta after they trade him for assets

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Old
01-14-2010, 07:51 PM
  #62
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It's obvious we can't score asides from Gaborik. Do whatever it takes to get this guy. 124 mins now without a goal.

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Old
01-14-2010, 07:54 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by BrandNewDream View Post
My thoughts on Kovalchuk: DO NOT WANT. If I were an Isles fan, I'd be beside myself.

From a Rangers perspective, we know that this guy is a premiere goal scorer. But is he worth the $10m (some even say $11m) that he reportedly wants? Absolutely not. He scores goals, nothing else.

A guy like Hossa, who can score you 40 goals and is capable in the defensive zone, could have been had for $7.5. (Chicago's cap circumvention aside...) Are Kovalchuk's next 15 goals worth $2.5m in valuable cap space? This question becomes especially imperative when the Rangers own cap situation is considered. Go ahead, ship Redden to the minors, we'd still need to find an EXTRA $4 MILLION. Crazy.

DISCLAIMER: Sorry if any of this has been said before, this is my first post on the topic and I really didn't feel like reading through 1000 posts.
Send Rozy to ATL and Redden down. That solves the cap problem.

Now youre basically trading questionable future draft picks and Dubinsky for Kovalchuk.

We'd be in the same position we are now, but with Kovalchuk instead of Dubinsky.

It is worth it!

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Old
01-14-2010, 08:42 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by NHLsnipers View Post
Send Rozy to ATL and Redden down. That solves the cap problem.

Now youre basically trading questionable future draft picks and Dubinsky for Kovalchuk.

We'd be in the same position we are now, but with Kovalchuk instead of Dubinsky.

It is worth it!
What makes you think Atlanta wants Rozsival?

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Old
01-14-2010, 08:59 PM
  #65
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I'm willing to give anything but Lundqvist, Gabby, DZ, and Staal. Everyone else is dead to me.

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Old
01-14-2010, 10:16 PM
  #66
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He scores goals, nothing else.
i couldn't agree more...why would we pay a guy $10 mil to score goals and 'nothing else' when instead we can continue our stellar model of paying $7 mil to guys that don't score and nothing else

besides the last 2 games proved that offense is overrated and we can get buy without scoring any goals. its not like a 50 goal scorer would help us...

absolutely no need for a ONE dimensional player that scores a ton of goal...get me more NO dimensional players that provide nothing

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Old
01-14-2010, 10:19 PM
  #67
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Now we know why the Organization said "stepan a year away from pro"

Bringing up his value on top of his solid WJC . It's possible that Stepan could be on his way out for Kovy.
actually IMO saying that he's another year away from turning pro LOWERS his value, not raising it. if stepan said he was turning pro at the end of the year you could say that sometime next season he could be called up. now you are looking at the middle of the following year. if you are trading away a franchise player its kind of hard to sell the fans on the fact that the guys you got won't be seen for 3 years. compared to a guy like grachev would could step in almost immediately

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Old
01-14-2010, 10:41 PM
  #68
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^I think he's turning pro anyway.

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Old
01-14-2010, 10:44 PM
  #69
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I think the KHL has a provision that exempts teams the cap hit if they successfully lure elite talent away from the NHL.

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Old
01-14-2010, 11:22 PM
  #70
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I want no part of trading for Kovalchuk.

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01-14-2010, 11:26 PM
  #71
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Some day long in the future, civilizations will study the information stored on our "web sites". And based on what they read, they will determine that we worshiped a god named Ilya Kovalchuk, spending months of our lives singing his praises and wishing he would save us from doom and misery.

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Old
01-14-2010, 11:42 PM
  #72
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I think he winds up in LA or Chicago. They have the pieces to get it done and it would really help put Chicago over the top, and LA right into a playoff spot.

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Old
01-15-2010, 09:38 AM
  #73
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I really dont think Chicago has the cap room to bring him in.

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Old
01-15-2010, 10:28 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
At the time, it was a solid return for a pending UFA. Christensen was coming off a good season, Armstrong is a great player and has been a fan favorite in Atlanta, and Esposito was considered a prospect with top-six potential. Plus a late 1st in a relatively deep draft. The fact that Espo is struggling, Christensen burned out, and the 1st round pick turned out to be a bit of a scrub, is all hindsight.

It could have been a great deal for both sides, but ended up being pretty even in the end. Atlanta didn't get much out of it, and Pittsburgh was unable to win the cup and Hossa walked. That's the sort of thing I'd expect for Kovalchuk, not Vanek, Kassian+ for Kovalchuk and Kubina.

Wasn't taking anything out on you, just making a point.
Nope.

At the time, I said it was a great trade for Pitt. They gave up a really good third liner (still a third liner), a very late first round pick, a good prospect that people were already starting to doubt. (A good, but not elite prospect.)...and Christenson. Come on dude, Christenson was never looked upon as a nice piece tothe trade. Dont care how he was playing at the time...the guy was never good t begin with. Just another foward...a throw in to the deal.

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Old
01-15-2010, 10:34 AM
  #75
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I want no part of trading for Kovalchuk.
I would err on the side of caution as well. I just think its going to be too much to give up. But lately the way the Rangers have played, they need scoring so badly that there might be more pressure to make this happen which is scary.

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