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EDM & TOR- minor deal

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Old
01-15-2010, 03:06 AM
  #26
The Big Swede
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No way,Kulemin is one of the rare players of the Leafs that actually plays every night and is much more skilled then his stats show

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01-15-2010, 04:38 AM
  #27
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I would have to agree with the overwhelming sentiment put forth by the other Leafs fans in this thread. Despite Kulemin's slow start to the season, his overall development has grown by leaps and bounds as this season has progressed. There have been many nights when he's been the only bright spot on the team and nowadays he's just a beast on the ice. Kulemin is, by far, the Leafs' best fore-checker and back-checker as well.

Cogliano is a good young player with a fair bit of potential, but I just can't see Kulemin being traded for him.

As much as I may want Cogliano's speed and offensive talent on the Leafs, I would not be willing to give up Kulemin to get it. Grabovski/J. Mitchell? Hell yes! Kulemin? Hell no!

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01-15-2010, 04:53 AM
  #28
phillipmike
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Just to set the record straight....

Most post make it sound like Kulemin is untouchable, but in fact he is not. However, he is play very well and if he keeps it up he can be one of Burke's future and best "plumbers". Eventhough Cogs has more potential to become a top 6 player, Kulemin's work ethic and ability to bring that X-factor is really growing on fans, kind of like Ian White. Kulemin and White are two players that wont pop out at you on the stat sheet but they bring a style where they can be your best player in a game without scoring a goal.

In the end guys like Kulemin and White by no means are untouchable. Its just that the Leafs would not want to trade them for guys that they think they already have in Cogliano.

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01-15-2010, 05:26 AM
  #29
EucaLEAFtys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillipmike View Post
Just to set the record straight....

Most post make it sound like Kulemin is untouchable, but in fact he is not. However, he is play very well and if he keeps it up he can be one of Burke's future and best "plumbers". Eventhough Cogs has more potential to become a top 6 player, Kulemin's work ethic and ability to bring that X-factor is really growing on fans, kind of like Ian White. Kulemin and White are two players that wont pop out at you on the stat sheet but they bring a style where they can be your best player in a game without scoring a goal.

In the end guys like Kulemin and White by no means are untouchable. Its just that the Leafs would not want to trade them for guys that they think they already have in Cogliano.
Kulemin has been developing quite nicely this year. I don't, however, see him as one of "Burke's future and best 'plumbers'" Kulemin does have offensive skill and I think he may possibly become a good Top-6 power-forward in a few years time IF he continues to progress in his development. He has the necessary tenacity and the ability to win puck-battles in the corners on a fairly consistent basis. He's also defensively aware. All he really needs to do is improve his scoring ability. I also think Kulemin has more "intangibles" than Cogliano has which are currently in short supply on the current Leaf team.

Of course, this is strictly my opinion.

Some may agree with me and some may not. That's fine.... but I still say that trading Kulemin for Cogliano would not be a wise choice for the Leafs.

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Old
01-15-2010, 05:37 AM
  #30
phillipmike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
Kulemin has been developing quite nicely this year. I don't, however, see him as one of "Burke's future and best 'plumbers'" Kulemin does have offensive skill and I think he may possibly become a good Top-6 power-forward in a few years time IF he continues to progress in his development. He has the necessary tenacity and the ability to win puck-battles in the corners on a fairly consistent basis. He's also defensively aware. All he really needs to do is improve his scoring ability. I also think Kulemin has more "intangibles" than Cogliano has which are currently in short supply on the current Leaf team.

Of course, this is strictly my opinion.

Some may agree with me and some may not. That's fine.... but I still say that trading Kulemin for Cogliano would not be a wise choice for the Leafs.
I dont think i can disagree with you on anything here. My only case is Kulemin is showing flashes of offensive ability; however, his defensive abilities are more important to this team then the goals he puts in because we probably have at least 6 players that can put the puck in the net at a more consistent level.

But my case of him being a plumber is this. He is a very good defensive winger with traces of an offensive game. Thats a good thing, if he can become a defensive stud and stop goals then the Leafs have a great player. But lets say someone in out top 6 gets injured or is under producing (this will happen), then Kulemin's offensive game is key. In the end some of your third liners need to know how to score or create offensive chances because players will get injured or under produce. Your bottom six guys cant strictly stop goals and not chip in some and your top 6 guys cant forget how to play defence. Everyone will have a role but it cant hurt to have a little something extra just in case. In my eyes that is what Kulemin is.

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01-15-2010, 05:51 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillipmike View Post
I dont think i can disagree with you on anything here. My only case is Kulemin is showing flashes of offensive ability; however, his defensive abilities are more important to this team then the goals he puts in because we probably have at least 6 players that can put the puck in the net at a more consistent level.

But my case of him being a plumber is this. He is a very good defensive winger with traces of an offensive game. Thats a good thing, if he can become a defensive stud and stop goals then the Leafs have a great player. But lets say someone in out top 6 gets injured or is under producing (this will happen), then Kulemin's offensive game is key. In the end some of your third liners need to know how to score or create offensive chances because players will get injured or under produce. Your bottom six guys cant strictly stop goals and not chip in some and your top 6 guys cant forget how to play defence. Everyone will have a role but it cant hurt to have a little something extra just in case. In my eyes that is what Kulemin is.
You've made some good points here.

At best, I see Kulemin as a 2nd line power-forward. If, however, he falls a bit short of that mark, he could easily become a fantastic 3rd liner with the abiity to perform 2nd line "spot duty" whenever necessary. Either way, it's all good.

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01-15-2010, 08:28 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmontonoil View Post
Cogliano
For
Kulemin
Leafs would pass ...Stajan/Grabovski/Poni/STemp etc would perhaps be okay straight up, but, Leafs wouldnt deal Kulemin right now

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Old
01-15-2010, 08:35 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillipmike View Post
I dont think i can disagree with you on anything here. My only case is Kulemin is showing flashes of offensive ability; however, his defensive abilities are more important to this team then the goals he puts in because we probably have at least 6 players that can put the puck in the net at a more consistent level.

But my case of him being a plumber is this. He is a very good defensive winger with traces of an offensive game. Thats a good thing, if he can become a defensive stud and stop goals then the Leafs have a great player. But lets say someone in out top 6 gets injured or is under producing (this will happen), then Kulemin's offensive game is key. In the end some of your third liners need to know how to score or create offensive chances because players will get injured or under produce. Your bottom six guys cant strictly stop goals and not chip in some and your top 6 guys cant forget how to play defence. Everyone will have a role but it cant hurt to have a little something extra just in case. In my eyes that is what Kulemin is.
He was able to score in the RSL, and he's shown plenty of flashes of scoring ability in the NHL. I don't think he's limited to bottom six potential, I think he can be a top six player with good defensive play. I know Burke goes on about this bottom/top six stuff, but its overdone really. The fact that Kulemin fits well into one role doesn't mean that he can't grow into another.

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01-15-2010, 09:37 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillipmike View Post
Just to set the record straight....

Most post make it sound like Kulemin is untouchable, but in fact he is not. However, he is play very well and if he keeps it up he can be one of Burke's future and best "plumbers". Eventhough Cogs has more potential to become a top 6 player, Kulemin's work ethic and ability to bring that X-factor is really growing on fans, kind of like Ian White. Kulemin and White are two players that wont pop out at you on the stat sheet but they bring a style where they can be your best player in a game without scoring a goal.

In the end guys like Kulemin and White by no means are untouchable. Its just that the Leafs would not want to trade them for guys that they think they already have in Cogliano.
Untouchable in the context of this thread maybe. You don't trade a player like Kulemin for a player like Cogliano.

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Old
01-15-2010, 10:07 AM
  #35
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neither team wants to make this deal, but the Oilers would be DUMB, DUMB, DUMB, if they moved Cogs now. He's struggled big time this year, and his value has never been lower. He's got great tools, he's one of the fastest players in the league, he scored 18 goals in a season twice, playing limited minutes and no PP time. He's had a tough year, but he's also been on a line with Stortini and Moreau most of the time, and not on the PP either. If the Oilers management moves him now, they truly are as dumb as everyone thinks they are. Buy low, sell high... economics 101.

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Old
01-15-2010, 10:26 AM
  #36
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I'm not a huge fan of Cogliano but I'll take him over Kulemin, thanks.
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01-15-2010, 10:41 AM
  #37
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No way. What does Cogliano bring that Kulemin doesnt?

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01-15-2010, 10:57 AM
  #38
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No from Edmonton. We have a big 3rd line checking winger in JF Jacques who i think could be just as good as Kulemin. Cogliano could be a 25-30 goal top 6 forward. If we move Cogs it would be along with another asset or two for a top line player or top 8 pick.
seriously?. I assume you probably don't have a clue about Kulemin. Just look at JF Jacques entire NHL career 96 GP 4 G 5 A 9 PTS. Kulemin has double the points just this season 44 GP 9 G 8 A 17 PTS. Kulemin is a year younger as well.

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Old
01-15-2010, 12:47 PM
  #39
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Kulemin goes nowhere, he is a far superior player to Cogliano. Young scoring wingers with POTENTIAL are all too common, but a young player with scoring potential AND and an already complete game, a guy you can have out on the ice with a minute to go in the game as you protect a lead, is not so common.

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01-15-2010, 03:01 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by leafsfan2 View Post
seriously?. I assume you probably don't have a clue about Kulemin. Just look at JF Jacques entire NHL career 96 GP 4 G 5 A 9 PTS. Kulemin has double the points just this season 44 GP 9 G 8 A 17 PTS. Kulemin is a year younger as well.
Yeah i know about Kulemin. You must not know about Jacques. What did you do? Google his numbers and decide his value based on that?

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01-15-2010, 03:08 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Dylbot View Post
Kulemin goes nowhere, he is a far superior player to Cogliano. Young scoring wingers with POTENTIAL are all too common, but a young player with scoring potential AND and an already complete game, a guy you can have out on the ice with a minute to go in the game as you protect a lead, is not so common.
Your right...the fact that Cogliano's worst season is better then Kulemin's best proves that Kulemin is far superior. Who cares if Cogliano is younger and faster too.

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01-15-2010, 03:12 PM
  #42
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Your right...the fact that Cogliano's worst season is better then Kulemin's best proves that Kulemin is far superior. Who cares if Cogliano is younger and faster too.
Cogs also is a center, who can't win a faceoff to save his life.... He also doesn't have much in the way of a shot.

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01-15-2010, 03:15 PM
  #43
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Your right...the fact that Cogliano's worst season is better then Kulemin's best proves that Kulemin is far superior. Who cares if Cogliano is younger and faster too.
Kulemins having his best season now, and Cogliano is having his worst season now. How is Cogliano better than Kulemin this year?

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01-15-2010, 03:17 PM
  #44
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He also doesn't have much in the way of a shot.

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01-15-2010, 03:17 PM
  #45
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Your right...the fact that Cogliano's worst season is better then Kulemin's best proves that Kulemin is far superior. Who cares if Cogliano is younger and faster too.
Look, there aren't any Leafs fans who like this. There's a reason for that. They aren't going to trade the one player who is playing consistently good.

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01-15-2010, 03:19 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
Kulemins having his best season now, and Cogliano is having his worst season now. How is Cogliano better than Kulemin this year?
Ummm...Not sure if you knew this but this season is still going on. And we're tanking...Use PPG if you want. I don't know how anyone can argue that Cogs is the more offensive threat.

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01-15-2010, 03:19 PM
  #47
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Funny how both sides are against this trade when I'd say that the two players have similar value. All comes down to need I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by section8 View Post
Your right...the fact that Cogliano's worst season is better then Kulemin's best proves that Kulemin is far superior. Who cares if Cogliano is younger and faster too.
You have to watch Kulemin play every night to see why fans are so high on him, stats don't tell the whole story.

Mainly because of the fact that he's our best defensive player and was therefore put on our 3rd line with Primeau and Stempniak to try and form a shutdown line. Since being put on the top line with Kessel he's been putting up points; he has 5 points in the last 6 games and he's only been on the Kessel line for the last few games. He also rarely has PP time.

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01-15-2010, 03:21 PM
  #48
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Funny how both sides are against this trade when I'd say that the two players have similar value. All comes down to need I guess.



You have to watch Kulemin play every night to see why fans are so high on him, stats don't tell the whole story.

Mainly because of the fact that he's our best defensive player and was therefore put on our 3rd line with Primeau and Stempniak to try and form a shutdown line. Since being put on the top line with Kessel he's been putting up points; he has 5 points in the last 6 games and he's only been on the Kessel line for the last few games. He also rarely has PP time.
Oh don't get me wrong. I think Kulemin is GREAT 3rd line player. I'm not trying to take anything away from him. I just think Cogliano is a great prospect who has a much much higher upside. The fact of the matter is... 2nd line players are worth more then 3rd line players. And for the record. Cogs hasn't had any PP time under Quinn. Last night Horcoff was a scratch so Cogs got his PP time. He looked great out there and scored a sweet goal.

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Old
01-15-2010, 03:22 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by section8 View Post
Ummm...Not sure if you knew this but this season is still going on. And we're tanking...Use PPG if you want. I don't know how anyone can argue that Cogs is the more offensive threat.
Ummm...Oh you're tanking, thats the reason why Cogliano isn't having a great season? Sorry didnt realize that he was a quiter.

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01-15-2010, 03:25 PM
  #50
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Oh don't get me wrong. I think Kulemin is GREAT 3rd line player. I'm not trying to take anything away from him. I just think Cogliano is a great prospect who has a much much higher upside. The fact of the matter is... 2nd line players are worth more then 3rd line players. And for the record. Cogs hasn't had any PP time under Quinn. Last night Horcoff was a scratch so Cogs got his PP time. He looked great out there and scored a sweet goal.


Cogliano is still a prospect?

Cogliano averages just under 14 mins a game. Is that 2nd line minutes right now?

Last few games Kulemin has been on the top line and doesnt look out of place.

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