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Old
01-17-2010, 01:11 AM
  #101
Giant Moo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Kessel 27 points/34 games
Gagner 27 points /46 games

Someone has a better young player
If your only criteria is PPG, then yes.

I think the argument is a bit more nuanced, though.

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01-17-2010, 01:40 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
If your only criteria is PPG, then yes.

I think the argument is a bit more nuanced, though.

Phil Kessel, Age 19

70 GP, 11-18-29 (0.41 PPG) (0.16 GPG)

Sam Gagner, Age 19

76 GP, 16-25-41 (0.54 PPG) (0.21 GPG)



Phil Kessel, age 20

82 GP, 19-18-37 (0.45 PPG) (0.23 GPG)

Sam Gagner, age 20

45 GP, 9-17-26 (0.58 PPG) (0.20 GPG)


Interesting to note they both improved by 0.4 PPG between age 19 and 20, but Gagner ate his lunch offensively at the same age. Suddenly, at 21, Kessel explodes. Why is such a break-out improbable for Sam? Secondly, we know that he's a great playmaker but are we perhaps under-rating his goal-scoring ability?

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01-17-2010, 01:43 AM
  #103
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Man to think, a western canadian team has never had a number 1 pick. Those Nordiques had a ton of them(coincidentally they won their cups with zero of them on their roster) and Toronto had Wendel Clark and Ottawa had Daigle. Those are the most recent, boy it's been a longtime.

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01-17-2010, 01:56 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Phil Kessel, Age 19

70 GP, 11-18-29 (0.41 PPG) (0.16 GPG)

Sam Gagner, Age 19

76 GP, 16-25-41 (0.54 PPG) (0.21 GPG)



Phil Kessel, age 20

82 GP, 19-18-37 (0.45 PPG) (0.23 GPG)

Sam Gagner, age 20

45 GP, 9-17-26 (0.58 PPG) (0.20 GPG)


Interesting to note they both improved by 0.4 PPG between age 19 and 20, but Gagner ate his lunch offensively at the same age. Suddenly, at 21, Kessel explodes. Why is such a break-out improbable for Sam? Secondly, we know that he's a great playmaker but are we perhaps under-rating his goal-scoring ability?
I don't expect Gagner to have the same type of season. But that doesn't mean he won't at some point. We're still years away from being able to predict what Gagner can achieve with any decent degree of confidence, which is what I was trying to get at (but obviously didn't communicate very well).

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01-17-2010, 01:59 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Phil Kessel, Age 19

70 GP, 11-18-29 (0.41 PPG) (0.16 GPG)

Sam Gagner, Age 19

76 GP, 16-25-41 (0.54 PPG) (0.21 GPG)



Phil Kessel, age 20

82 GP, 19-18-37 (0.45 PPG) (0.23 GPG)

Sam Gagner, age 20

45 GP, 9-17-26 (0.58 PPG) (0.20 GPG)


Interesting to note they both improved by 0.4 PPG between age 19 and 20, but Gagner ate his lunch offensively at the same age. Suddenly, at 21, Kessel explodes. Why is such a break-out improbable for Sam? Secondly, we know that he's a great playmaker but are we perhaps under-rating his goal-scoring ability?
I still think there's no reason why Gagner can't be a consistent 70-point player in this league...especially if we get some talent to surround him with (ie. Hall/Seguin and a healthy Hemsky...)

Lost in this crappy season is watching Gagner once again turn it up in the 2nd half of the season

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Old
01-17-2010, 02:15 AM
  #106
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You guys see Kabanov drop in the ISS rankings? Imagine if we pulled a deal to get both Hall and Kabanov? *drools*
I am desperately hoping we can get another mid teen 1st. I firmly believe at least one of Tarasenko, Kabanov or El Nino will fall that far and I'd love to snag one of them along with Hall/Seguin. When Kulikov fell last year I was screaming at the TV for Tambo to trade up for him. Too bad we didn't.

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Old
01-17-2010, 04:57 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
Man to think, a western canadian team has never had a number 1 pick. Those Nordiques had a ton of them(coincidentally they won their cups with zero of them on their roster) and Toronto had Wendel Clark and Ottawa had Daigle. Those are the most recent, boy it's been a longtime.
You must be wrong. Narnia has stated many times that the Oil are the only team that's never had #1.

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Old
01-17-2010, 11:18 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Ty Webb View Post
You must be wrong. Narnia has stated many times that the Oil are the only team that's never had #1.
I think Narnia said we're the only team never to have a top 3 pick.

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Old
01-17-2010, 11:27 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
When Kulikov fell last year I was screaming at the TV for Tambo to trade up for him. Too bad we didn't.
lol..... I did the same.

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Old
01-17-2010, 11:39 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Neither one will be cup contenders in the next five years.

They're both pathetic franchises but puffing up your chest because the Oilers have a "brighter future" is just silly.
Colorado was supposed to suck this year according to you because they lost Sakic and Smyth. So what the hell do you know. Nothing, THAT'S WHAT. Funny you puff up your own skinny chest while forgetting half the junk you say.

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Old
01-17-2010, 12:03 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Going into next season would you rather have a first round pick or 20 million in free cap space?
You forgot to add that they have about ten signed players as well. So they have the illusion of 20 million but really they have sweet **** all. No draft picks, no goalie, terrible defense, and one or two decent forwards. I will bet you one year avatar that the Oilers finish higher than the Leafs next season.

Offer is null and void if the Oilers trade Penner, Hemsky, Visnovsky or start the year with JDD and DD in net or if the Leafs trade any more first round picks for players or sign Kovalchuk.


Last edited by I am the Liquor: 01-17-2010 at 12:09 PM.
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Old
01-17-2010, 01:02 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Ty Webb View Post
You must be wrong. Narnia has stated many times that the Oil are the only team that's never had #1.
You sure? I could swear the closest calgary and Vancouver have ever come is Linden and Stillman.

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01-17-2010, 01:04 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Boilers View Post
Colorado was supposed to suck this year according to you because they lost Sakic and Smyth. So what the hell do you know. Nothing, THAT'S WHAT. Funny you puff up your own skinny chest while forgetting half the junk you say.
Settle down fella.

I remember very clearly that I picked the Avalanche to finish out of the playoffs and think they still will.

Bet?

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01-17-2010, 01:10 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
You forgot to add that they have about ten signed players as well. So they have the illusion of 20 million but really they have sweet **** all. No draft picks, no goalie, terrible defense, and one or two decent forwards. I will bet you one year avatar that the Oilers finish higher than the Leafs next season.

Offer is null and void if the Oilers trade Penner, Hemsky, Visnovsky or start the year with JDD and DD in net or if the Leafs trade any more first round picks for players or sign Kovalchuk.
Depends on how you look at it.

They could well sign some nifty players to take up that $20M.

Remember how many decent UFA's were looking for work last summer and signed cheap before the season started?

There will be even more of them this summer as teams that will be over the cap shed salary.

Any team going into next season with lots of free cap space is in a good position but it will depend on how smart they are in building their teams.

I'll take that bet as soon as you remove the conditions.

There are so many there that the bet is meaningless.

I would far rather be in that position than bumping up against the cap with a 29th place team.

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Old
01-17-2010, 02:03 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr V View Post
I think Narnia said we're the only team never to have a top 3 pick.
Correct. There are 8 teams that haven't had a #1 overall including all 3 western Canadian teams. But the Oilers are the only team that never had a top 3. Thanks BTW.

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Old
01-17-2010, 03:40 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Depends on how you look at it.

They could well sign some nifty players to take up that $20M.

Remember how many decent UFA's were looking for work last summer and signed cheap before the season started?

There will be even more of them this summer as teams that will be over the cap shed salary.

Any team going into next season with lots of free cap space is in a good position but it will depend on how smart they are in building their teams.

I'll take that bet as soon as you remove the conditions.

There are so many there that the bet is meaningless.

I would far rather be in that position than bumping up against the cap with a 29th place team.
You keep blowing wind about the Leafs, take the bet. The conditions are there to make it a level playing field.

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Old
01-17-2010, 03:42 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
You keep blowing wind about the Leafs, take the bet. The conditions are there to make it a level playing field.
There are so many conditions deciding a winner would be almost impossible.

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01-17-2010, 03:46 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
There are so many conditions deciding a winner would be almost impossible.
There are only four, none of which are likely to happen. Stop being a sissy and grow a pair.

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01-17-2010, 03:50 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
There are only four, none of which are likely to happen. Stop being a sissy and grow a pair.
I count six.

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Old
01-17-2010, 03:56 PM
  #120
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I count six.
The three Oilers were counted as one by me. I can tell by your little dance that you are unwilling, so we will just leave it be. I guess in the end you are not so confident in your claims about the Leafs.

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Old
01-17-2010, 03:57 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Don't feed the Narnia.

You look good in that hat it really suits you.


Your hate for the Oilers and the fans here has reached new heights today, claiming that the Leafs have a brighter future is the clincher.

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Old
01-17-2010, 04:05 PM
  #122
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You look good in that hat it really suits you.


Your hate for the Oilers and the fans here has reached new heights today, claiming that the Leafs have a brighter future is the clincher.
All things considered, I would say they're pretty even and that was my point.

The Oilers have better prospects and draft picks to be sure but they don't always turn out the way you hope.

The Leafs on the other hand aren't saddled with as many albatross contracts and have the free cap space to add components.

Taking a balanced view of things is hardly hate.

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01-17-2010, 04:13 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
All things considered, I would say they're pretty even and that was my point.

The Oilers have better prospects and draft picks to be sure but they don't always turn out the way you hope.

The Leafs on the other hand aren't saddled with as many albatross contracts and have the free cap space to add components.

Taking a balanced view of things is hardly hate.
Claiming Kessel to be the second coming and ignoring that fact that they gave up 3 very good picks to get him is blind.

Cap space is only good if you can use it, The leafs have had cap space for a long time and usually end up in the loser column with guys like Finger and Blake in the fold.

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Old
01-17-2010, 04:23 PM
  #124
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Not to go off topic here, but I thought I was on a hockey board not facebook/myspace.
Seriously, everyone is acting like high school drama queens about making bets and who was right and who was wrong.
Who cares?
We all have our own opinions and sometimes we are wrong/right when we state them.

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Old
01-17-2010, 04:25 PM
  #125
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Claiming Kessel to be the second coming and ignoring that fact that they gave up 3 very good picks to get him is blind.

Cap space is only good if you can use it, The leafs have had cap space for a long time and usually end up in the loser column with guys like Finger and Blake in the fold.
I don't think Kessel is the second coming but he is a very good hockey player although I agree the cost to get him was high.

Saying "cap space is only good if you can use it" is an empty, meaningless statement as is your comment that the Leafs "have had cap space for a long time" which is just wrong.

I might also remind you that the Leafs are under new management so what happened anytime before this season is irrelevant except for carrying the contracts for Blake and Finger forward.

Even so, Blake at $4M for the next 2 seasons is little easier to stomach that Horcoff at $5.5M for next 5.

And is Finger at $3.5M for another two seasons much worse than Gilbert at $4M?

And of course, the Oilers have a few other anchor contracts as Bob Mackenzie has recently noted that make the players almost impossible to move.

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