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01-16-2010, 03:13 PM
  #26
Gagnefan924
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Stop posting. Your clearly a troll with no life.

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01-16-2010, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by parcheesi View Post
No need to switch loyalties...you're already rooting for the ONLY team in the NHL that awards third-line performance with first-line ice time.

Shane Doan wouldn't score 60 points with a contender, because he wouldn't crack the first two lines.
While I'm not going to take the time to go through the lines of all the contenders, lets at least take the team ahead of the Yotes in the division. Do you honestly think Doan would not replace Clowe on their second line?

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01-16-2010, 03:17 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by parcheesi View Post
No need to switch loyalties...you're already rooting for the ONLY team in the NHL that awards third-line performance with first-line ice time.

Shane Doan wouldn't score 60 points with a contender, because he wouldn't crack the first two lines.
Yes and Teppo doesn't deserve to have his number retired in the ring of honor this January.
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01-16-2010, 03:19 PM
  #29
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We all know parcheesi is a troll, hell I wouldn't be surprised if he is Camelback from the AZCentral forums...

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01-16-2010, 03:23 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
Stop posting. Your clearly a troll with no life.
So, my opinion that Shane Doan has Mike Grier skills and Jarome Iginla hype and ice-time makes me a troll?

You don't like my opinion, so I have to stop posting? I have a better idea...I'll KEEP posting here on this thread that I started, and you stop reading it. How's that for a solution?

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01-16-2010, 03:32 PM
  #31
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He's 33 and around this age power forwards begin to drop off offensively.

- 25-30G and 60 points
- 200+ hits a season
- Impact in the defensive end.

Doan in his prime would be in my top six easily. Was a beast

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01-16-2010, 03:33 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Sceva Sct View Post
While I'm not going to take the time to go through the lines of all the contenders, lets at least take the team ahead of the Yotes in the division. Do you honestly think Doan would not replace Clowe on their second line?
Thanks for making my point...actually, it's Devin Setoguchi who's the right wing on that line, and no...I don't think Shane Doan would would bump Setoguchi. He would, however, definitely bump Ortmeyer, McCarthy or Staubitz. And Doan would see ZERO powerplay time if he was a Shark.

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01-16-2010, 03:35 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by pensteel71 View Post
We all know parcheesi is a troll, hell I wouldn't be surprised if he is Camelback from the AZCentral forums...
Ouch. Low blow, man. Low blow.

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01-16-2010, 03:45 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by parcheesi View Post
So, my opinion that Shane Doan has Mike Grier skills and Jarome Iginla hype and ice time
You see this makes no sense unless your going to suggest Doan has been the product of some elite playmaking centers.

From 99-09 Doan's shooting percentage on average was 11%. He took on average 230 shots a season and that got him 25-30 goals yearly.

That is very good production per shots taken. It shows he has more then Grier skills scoring.

Then he was adding 35-40 assists as a playmaking winger. You think with the cast he's been surrounded with those assists were easy to grab?

When you look deeper at the numbers your argument becomes easy to shred.

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01-16-2010, 03:52 PM
  #35
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I don't think Shane Doan has ever received Jarome Iginla hype.

Doan is and has been the only recognizable player on the team for the last 6-7 years and has been unquestionably their best player and heart and soul of the team.

I have a ton of respect for Doan but he's not playing to offensive expecations this year. I still think he should have been held out of the lineup after the Wishnovsky hit but I digress. I don't think he's lost a step but I do think that his prominent role will and should diminish as other players step forward.

That being said, we're 11 games over 0.500 right now. Should we really be complaining at all? It's apparent this team is better than the sum of its parts.

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01-16-2010, 03:54 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by parcheesi View Post
Thanks for making my point...actually, it's Devin Setoguchi who's the right wing on that line, and no...I don't think Shane Doan would would bump Setoguchi. He would, however, definitely bump Ortmeyer, McCarthy or Staubitz. And Doan would see ZERO powerplay time if he was a Shark.
15 point Setogouchi would bump Doan?

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01-16-2010, 04:01 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by parcheesi View Post
No need to switch loyalties...you're already rooting for the ONLY team in the NHL that awards third-line performance with first-line ice time.

Shane Doan wouldn't score 60 points with a contender, because he wouldn't crack the first two lines.
You're serious? Name 10 teams that have 2 RW that are better than Doan.

Actually, nevermind, I'll pint out the folly in your thinking.

On Pittsburgh Doan would play with either Crosby or Malkin and score at least 60 points.

On Detroit he would play alongside either Zetterburg or Datsyuk and score at least 60 points.

I could go on...

Doan is an elite 2nd line winger and a good 1st line guy.

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01-16-2010, 04:05 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
When you look deeper at the numbers your argument becomes easy to shred.
He's not going to get those numbers playing on the third line where he belongs. Give an elite player like Rick Nash the same playing time and power-play minutes on this team that Doan has had, and Nash's numbers would all be higher than Doan's.

Doan turns something into nothing more often than any other first-line NHL player I've ever seen.

Shane Doan is a very good hockey player. I just don't believe he deserves the elite minutes he gets. Don't get me wrong...Detroit would jump at a chance to have Doan on their team this year. But I don't believe they'd pair him with Datzyuk and Zetterberg on the power play.

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01-16-2010, 04:11 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by parcheesi View Post
So, my opinion that Shane Doan has Mike Grier skills and Jarome Iginla hype and ice-time makes me a troll?

You don't like my opinion, so I have to stop posting? I have a better idea...I'll KEEP posting here on this thread that I started, and you stop reading it. How's that for a solution?
How can you even compare Shane Doan to Mike Grier? Wow your not a troll, your just a dumb****.

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01-16-2010, 04:18 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by parcheesi View Post
Thanks for making my point...actually, it's Devin Setoguchi who's the right wing on that line, and no...I don't think Shane Doan would would bump Setoguchi. He would, however, definitely bump Ortmeyer, McCarthy or Staubitz. And Doan would see ZERO powerplay time if he was a Shark.
Actually I didn't make your point. First, Doan could replace Seto as it is this year, however for the sake of having some speed on that line I think Doan would replace Clowe and Seto would be left on it and I would assume switch to left wing (which he has done before). Even if he didn't switch, Doan could play left wing and be just fine because in the Sharks system all three forwards end up playing all three positions as it is, so outside of lining up on face-offs it doesn't matter where he is.

But that said, if you seriously think that Doan has the same skillset as Mike Grier then there's no point arguing. Grier is a very good defensive forward who excels on the PK but is poor when it comes to scoring or setting up scoring chances. Doan isn't near Grier on the defensive side of things but you don't get the kind of points Doan does (on awful teams) without some knack for scoring.

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01-16-2010, 04:35 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Sceva Sct View Post
...you don't get the kind of points Doan does (on awful teams) without some knack for scoring.
You do if your team keeps playing you high minutes on the first line and power play as though you're a scoring threat, despite the fact that you're actually an excellent two-way checking winger.

But...fine, I'll admit...the Grier comparison was kinda whack. But hey, he's more Mike Grier than he is Sidney Crosby. But, OK...let's go with Dan Cleary instead. And maybe Doan cracks the second line on some contenders, instead of the third.

But he's not the Captain. And he's not on the first line. And he doesn't see PP time unless it's planting himself in front of the net.

He's a very good player. But on this team, I'd prefer to see Shane Doan over-achieve as a checker than under-achieve as a scorer. I think he's a better fit without all of the expectations that go along with the "C" and the first line, and the power play and the pedestal that everyone has placed him on.

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01-16-2010, 04:48 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by parcheesi View Post
You do if your team keeps playing you high minutes on the first line and power play as though you're a scoring threat, despite the fact that you're actually an excellent two-way checking winger.

But...fine, I'll admit...the Grier comparison was kinda whack. But hey, he's more Mike Grier than he is Sidney Crosby. But, OK...let's go with Dan Cleary instead. And maybe Doan cracks the second line on some contenders, instead of the third.

But he's not the Captain. And he's not on the first line. And he doesn't see PP time unless it's planting himself in front of the net.

He's a very good player. But on this team, I'd prefer to see Shane Doan over-achieve as a checker than under-achieve as a scorer. I think he's a better fit without all of the expectations that go along with the "C" and the first line, and the power play and the pedestal that everyone has placed him on.
Who else do we have that can put up offense? It's not like we're swimming with goal scorers at the moment.

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01-16-2010, 04:49 PM
  #43
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Who else do we have that can put up offense? It's not like we're swimming with goal scorers at the moment.
He said it earlier: Kovalchuk. So there. Personally, I don't really know how to reply to that.

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01-16-2010, 05:10 PM
  #44
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Who else do we have that can put up offense? It's not like we're swimming with goal scorers at the moment.
Yeah, OK...so "Kovalchuk" was a smart-a** comment. Point being, we don't have the "the guy" because we're all (coaches included) so busy wishing it was Shane Doan. It's not.

I think if we took the pressure off of Doan and matched him to his natural skills, he'd be a better player. Let's rotate Captains. Put Doan in a two-way checking role on another line. And give someone else 10 games to see what THEY do with increased responsibilities.

Would be great to see what Vrbata would do in that first-line stud role, but the Czech line works, so that's out. Mueller is who everyone wants there...he's improving, but it's not time yet. So for now, we go with either Korpikoski (who has amazing offensive skills, watch this guy at practice some time) or Pyatt, who has good size, decent puck control, and a very quick release on his wrist shot.

And keep putting Jovo in front of the offensive net on power plays, paired with skill players like Vrbata, Prucha, Lang, Upshall and yes, Korpikoski. That's definitely going to pay off with practice. Leave Doan off the power play, don't even have him practice there.

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01-16-2010, 05:14 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parcheesi View Post
Yeah, OK...so "Kovalchuk" was a smart-a** comment. Point being, we don't have the "the guy" because we're all (coaches included) so busy wishing it was Shane Doan. It's not.

I think if we took the pressure off of Doan and matched him to his natural skills, he'd be a better player. Let's rotate Captains. Put Doan in a two-way checking role on another line. And give someone else 10 games to see what THEY do with increased responsibilities.

Would be great to see what Vrbata would do in that first-line stud role, but the Czech line works, so that's out. Mueller is who everyone wants there...he's improving, but it's not time yet. So for now, we go with either Korpikoski (who has amazing offensive skills, watch this guy at practice some time) or Pyatt, who has good size, decent puck control, and a very quick release on his wrist shot.

And keep putting Jovo in front of the offensive net on power plays, paired with skill players like Vrbata, Prucha, Lang, Upshall and yes, Korpikoski. That's definitely going to pay off with practice. Leave Doan off the power play, don't even have him practice there.
Do you not understand what the job of a captain is?!? I'll give you a hint, it has nothing to with scoring, checking, defense, offense or the ability to eat 99 hot dogs in one sitting.

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01-16-2010, 05:25 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by parcheesi View Post
I think he's a better fit without all of the expectations that go along with the "C" and the first line.
I'll ask again. What does being captain have to do with scoring expectations or what line you play on? How many captains are leading their teams in scoring? Not many.

Wasn't Doan the captain of Team Canada TWICE?!?!? He wasn't the most talented or highest scoring player on either of those teams, but he was a great LEADER.

And despite all the other players the Coyotes have had who have also played similar minutes Doan has led the Coyotes in scoring 5 straight years.

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01-16-2010, 05:41 PM
  #47
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Yeah, OK...so "Kovalchuk" was a smart-a** comment. Point being, we don't have the "the guy" because we're all (coaches included) so busy wishing it was Shane Doan. It's not.

I think if we took the pressure off of Doan and matched him to his natural skills, he'd be a better player. Let's rotate Captains. Put Doan in a two-way checking role on another line. And give someone else 10 games to see what THEY do with increased responsibilities.

Would be great to see what Vrbata would do in that first-line stud role, but the Czech line works, so that's out. Mueller is who everyone wants there...he's improving, but it's not time yet. So for now, we go with either Korpikoski (who has amazing offensive skills, watch this guy at practice some time) or Pyatt, who has good size, decent puck control, and a very quick release on his wrist shot.

And keep putting Jovo in front of the offensive net on power plays, paired with skill players like Vrbata, Prucha, Lang, Upshall and yes, Korpikoski. That's definitely going to pay off with practice. Leave Doan off the power play, don't even have him practice there.
So you want the team to add offensive players. That's fine. I get that. Just the question then becomes do we have the financial resources to pay for them and more importantly who would those assets be?


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01-16-2010, 05:56 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by parcheesi View Post
He's not going to get those numbers playing on the third line where he belongs. Give an elite player like Rick Nash the same playing time and power-play minutes on this team that Doan has had, and Nash's numbers would all be higher than Doan's.

Doan turns something into nothing more often than any other first-line NHL player I've ever seen.

Shane Doan is a very good hockey player. I just don't believe he deserves the elite minutes he gets. Don't get me wrong...Detroit would jump at a chance to have Doan on their team this year. But I don't believe they'd pair him with Datzyuk and Zetterberg on the power play.
Rick Nash is one of the games elite young players (Only a few of these in the league) and puts up 250 shots a year with a 15-18% shooting percentage.

But here are other players in line with what Doan does in regards to scoring goals with similar ES and PP ice time.
Elias 240 shots and 12% shooting
D.Sedin 260 shots and 11% shooting
MSL 260 shots and 11% shooting
Lecavlier 300 shots and 13% shooting
Hejduk 250 shots and 13% shooting

Doan averages 230 shots and has his shooting percentage around 11%.

So the only thing you can really fault Doan for is not shooting enough like the above players

Statistically he is in line below the elite with other first liners like the above mentioned.

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01-16-2010, 06:03 PM
  #49
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It amazes me that so many people are willing to discuss this topic with seriousness.

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01-16-2010, 07:39 PM
  #50
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It amazes me that so many people are willing to discuss this topic with seriousness.
This topic should have been deleted. Pretty obvious trolling. And hey, I'm something of an expert on the matter

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