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Bad Loss Habs lose 4-2 against Senators

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Old
01-17-2010, 12:48 AM
  #251
scottyG
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Originally Posted by E = CH View Post
We saw the habs have a strong game up to 2-1. I don't understand why people refuse to see that a bad goal and a shaky goalie affects the momentum and strategies on the ice. A team playing on the road with a 1 goal lead will try and shut it down. A team full of small forwards can't afford to try and play catch up hockey that way.

Did the habs fail to score on the PP ? Yes. That definately was a big factor as well. However, the senators didn't do any better offensively than we did.

The habs were playing good enough hockey to win until Price failed to do his job as a goalkeeper and did not give his team the best chance to stay in the game, and the game was ultimately decided by one too many bad goal.

In the end, Price is a very young goaltender and he's not ready for #1 duties. I don't understand the complete refusal to face the situation and see that the goalie has to share a huge part of the blame for this game tonight. Ordinary goaltending performances will sink lesser teams. And most teams are at that level where they absolutely need above average goaltending to be allowed to keep playing their game. If Buffalo had Price instead of Miller, they'd be in the position we're in right now. Struggling to play 0.500 hockey.
See it's stuff like this that i don't understand. Price let in maybe, MAYBE one bad goal and people are blaming him for the lose So how does it work at 2-1 Montreal should just stop playing and let Price do the rest of the work?

Also how isn't Price ready to be a number 1?

And lol Miller is almost 30 Price is 22. Why are you comparing them anyways? If we'd have Toskala instead of Price/Halak we'd be last

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01-17-2010, 12:50 AM
  #252
Des Louise
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Why is it impossible to think Price has a lot of talent and will most likely realize this talent sooner or later while STILL being able to admit that he's been playing like **** for a while.

Why can't some people ever fault the goalies. It is one of the most important position in hockey. A strong goaltender turns a team like the habs into a top 4 team in the conference. Case in point Buffalo. They're a .500 team without Miller.

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01-17-2010, 12:54 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by E = CH View Post
Why is it impossible to think Price has a lot of talent and will most likely realize this talent sooner or later while STILL being able to admit that he's been playing like **** for a while.

Why can't some people ever fault the goalies. It is one of the most important position in hockey. A strong goaltender turns a team like the habs into a top 4 team in the conference. Case in point Buffalo. They're a .500 team without Miller.
Lol people always fault the goalie, what team you following?

And again who gives a **** about Miller because at 22 he was still in the AHL he didn't start playing regularly until he was 25-26.

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01-17-2010, 12:54 AM
  #254
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OK guys, I apologize. I am obviously in the wrong for dogging Carey Price. I feel bad. His stats are just stellar this year, and especially after such a great year last year, how could I dare to do such a thing. I'm certainly going to give myself a severe mental to do.

Oh wait! Nothing is different.

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01-17-2010, 12:55 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by ToysInTheAttic View Post
OK guys, I apologize. I am obviously in the wrong for dogging Carey Price. I feel bad. His stats are just stellar this year, and especially after such a great year last year, how could I dare to do such a thing. I'm certainly going to give myself a severe mental to do.

Oh wait! Nothing is different.
Is there a way to ban this clown or something?

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01-17-2010, 12:59 AM
  #256
ToysInTheAttic
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So, how many 1st rounders selected in the draft went on to win the Stanley Cup? Besides Fleury?

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01-17-2010, 12:59 AM
  #257
Des Louise
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Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
See it's stuff like this that i don't understand. Price let in maybe, MAYBE one bad goal and people are blaming him for the lose So how does it work at 2-1 Montreal should just stop playing and let Price do the rest of the work?

Also how isn't Price ready to be a number 1?

And lol Miller is almost 30 Price is 22. Why are you comparing them anyways? If we'd have Toskala instead of Price/Halak we'd be last
A bad team like Montreal NEEDS, absolutely necessitates good performances from its goalie.

If Price doesn't allow stinkers at key points in the game, the habs are allowed to keep playing their game and don't have to battle a team playing with a lead that's shutting everything down.

I'm not comparing Price and Miller. I'm saying that a strong goaltender is the difference for bad teams. I don't understand why people are Price bashers when they call it like they see it. Price wasn't good tonight and he was a major factor in that loss. The fact we didn't score more was also a big factor. But I simply refuse to say the team didn't show up, or sucked, or whatever and absolve Price of all wrong doings. I don't understand the goalie apologists. It really has nothing to do with Price actually. If Halak was sucking like that I'd call it sucking too and I'd say he was a big factor in the loss. Bottom line, Price had to allow one less goal than he did to get us a point and he didn't. He's had a poor game.

And the habs going 0 out of 6 on the PP was also pretty terrible.

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01-17-2010, 01:01 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by E = CH View Post
We saw the habs have a strong game up to 2-1. I don't understand why people refuse to see that a bad goal and a shaky goalie affects the momentum and strategies on the ice. A team playing on the road with a 1 goal lead will try and shut it down. A team full of small forwards can't afford to try and play catch up hockey that way.

Did the habs fail to score on the PP ? Yes. That definately was a big factor as well. However, the senators didn't do any better offensively than we did.

The habs were playing good enough hockey to win until Price failed to do his job as a goalkeeper and did not give his team the best chance to stay in the game, and the game was ultimately decided by one too many bad goal.

In the end, Price is a very young goaltender and he's not ready for #1 duties. I don't understand the complete refusal to face the situation and see that the goalie has to share a huge part of the blame for this game tonight. Ordinary goaltending performances will sink lesser teams. And most teams are at that level where they absolutely need above average goaltending to be allowed to keep playing their game. If Buffalo had Price instead of Miller, they'd be in the position we're in right now. Struggling to play 0.500 hockey.
It was a one goal game.. How can you be out of a game in a one goal game? We get it, Price has been shaky lately but if the Habs trails by one goal = out of the game? Then maybe the problem is not only Price.


I dont know why so many people are blaming only Price for this loss. I know its easy to do but damn.. what about Pacioretty, D'Agostini, Spacek, Lapierre and even Markov..

I know these stats are already out but it is ridiculous how the team struggles to score when Price is in net.

Here's the number of goal scored by the Habs in the last 10 reg. loss with Price in net.

Ott: 2
Was: 2
Buf: 0
Min: 1
NJ: 1
Pit: 2
Tor: 0
Pit: 1
Nas: 0
TB: 1

10 goals in 10 games. Shutout 3 times. 4 X 1 goal game.

I think Price is a good goalie... but i dont think he is good enough to keep an average of goal against under 1.1

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01-17-2010, 01:02 AM
  #259
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Is there a way to ban this clown or something?
I don't think so. I'd have to personally insult another board member like you just did.

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01-17-2010, 01:02 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by ToysInTheAttic View Post
OK guys, I apologize. I am obviously in the wrong for dogging Carey Price. I feel bad. His stats are just stellar this year, and especially after such a great year last year, how could I dare to do such a thing. I'm certainly going to give myself a severe mental to do.

Oh wait! Nothing is different.
that sarcasm will get you nowhere.

the loss tonight was because the sens outworked the habs all game, and the habs did not play well enough defensively as a team to contain them. Blaming the goalies in a game like this makes no sense.

BTW, thanks for all your vcash.

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01-17-2010, 01:03 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by E = CH View Post
A bad team like Montreal NEEDS, absolutely necessitates good performances from its goalie.

If Price doesn't allow stinkers at key points in the game, the habs are allowed to keep playing their game and don't have to battle a team playing with a lead that's shutting everything down.

I'm not comparing Price and Miller. I'm saying that a strong goaltender is the difference for bad teams. I don't understand why people are Price bashers when they call it like they see it. Price wasn't good tonight and he was a major factor in that loss. The fact we didn't score more was also a big factor. But I simply refuse to say the team didn't show up, or sucked, or whatever and absolve Price of all wrong doings. I don't understand the goalie apologists. It really has nothing to do with Price actually. If Halak was sucking like that I'd call it sucking too and I'd say he was a big factor in the loss. Bottom line, Price had to allow one less goal than he did to get us a point and he didn't. He's had a poor game.

And the habs going 0 out of 6 on the PP was also pretty terrible.
The problem is fans like you think a goalie should have a shoutout every game and when he dosen't it means he had a bad game. Tonight Price let in maybe one questionable goal, what you seem to forget is brodeur (Ottawa) let in one bad goal to but his team scored 4 goals.

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01-17-2010, 01:06 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by ToysInTheAttic View Post
I am obviously wrong
Fixed. And yes you are. Its okay. Number of post does not mean having a good judgement. Keep trying though.

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01-17-2010, 01:10 AM
  #263
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So, how many 1st rounders selected in the draft went on to win the Stanley Cup? Besides Fleury?
Lets see Crosby,Malkin,J.Staal,E.Staal,Ward,Getzlav,Perry,L ecavalier just to name a few.

If you're talking about just goalies

Ward,Fleury have won it so that's 2 goalies in the last 4 years.

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01-17-2010, 01:11 AM
  #264
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So, how many 1st rounders selected in the draft went on to win the Stanley Cup? Besides Fleury?
I assume you accidentally left out the word 'goalies'.

Brodeur, Barrasso, Fuhr, Giguere, Ward, Fleury.

They account for 12 of the last 25 Cups. Pretty good rate...

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01-17-2010, 01:12 AM
  #265
Des Louise
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I assume you watched the game.

The worst goal given up in this game was by Mike Brodeur on the Plekanec goal. At that point the Sens were down 2-1.

They scored 2 quick goals to come back.
Yeah Price gave up a huge fat juicy rebound to alfy and couldn't keep his stick on the ice for the save on the rebound. That's why the sens scored at least 1 of the 2 goals.

You like to think the "sens battled back". That is not what I saw. I saw the momentum shift completely after that stinker, and then Price couldn't make a difficult save on that deflection then Brodeur made a good save on Gionta and didn't allow any more stinkers and they won the game.

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We can take the example of last game as well. Price gave up 2 goals which according to the handful of goalie coaches on HF boards were weak. We were down 2-1. Price gave up 1 the rest of the way while the offense scored 4. Why was their more confidence on Thursday and not tonight?
Yeah so you expect the habs to score 5 goals every game ?

That's exactly what I'm saying, we're not the washington capitals. Our O is not exactly amazing. On most nights we need our goaltender to be better than Price was tonight.

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01-17-2010, 01:12 AM
  #266
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sens fan here, i come in peace. Uhm, I was going to post this on your GDT, but it got close right away after the game. I just wanted to say, great game, this was a wild ride, very amusing game. Sorry for your lost tonight (not to rub it in). My Heartbeat was going wild everytime you had a powerplay. But let's be honnest, you had to expect alot of energy from the Senators with Alfredsson coming back, no? Hope our next game is as good My Heartbeat was going wild everytime you had a powerplay

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01-17-2010, 01:19 AM
  #267
Des Louise
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Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
The problem is fans like you think a goalie should have a shoutout every game and when he dosen't it means he had a bad game. Tonight Price let in maybe one questionable goal, what you seem to forget is brodeur (Ottawa) let in one bad goal to but his team scored 4 goals.
The difference between Brodeur and Price is that Brodeur didn't allow anything after that. Price allowed a bad goal then couldn't make tough saves in other situations where he had to.

Same thing with Halak allowing a complete stinker against NJ and keeping the team in the game after that until OT. He gave his team a chance. It's fine to allow a bad goal when you redeem yourself with a tough save at a key point later in the game. But if you allow 1-2 bad goals and can't make any tough saves after that... you're just not having a good game.

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01-17-2010, 01:22 AM
  #268
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that sarcasm will get you nowhere.

the loss tonight was because the sens outworked the habs all game, and the habs did not play well enough defensively as a team to contain them. Blaming the goalies in a game like this makes no sense.

BTW, thanks for all your vcash.
You are welcome. Been reading Freud have you? And thanks for misquoting me earlier in the thread.

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01-17-2010, 01:22 AM
  #269
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Good Analysis by Lions in Winter Blog:

Quote:
I expect a lot of the next few games to be like the three we have just played against the Devils, Stars and Sens. In that stretch we have proven that we are not a deep team on defence, our goalies are good, but not great and that we only have about 5 forwards with any business seeing real minutes in the NHL. It is no surprise, therefore, that we came out of that trio of games 1-1-1 as I think luck and chance had more to do with it than anything. Take tonight for example, we tried hard, we got chances on the PP and at even-strength, but we couldn't make it work. Too many times do I see a Lapierre in front of the net mishandle the puck or miss the net. Too often is a D'Agostini skating to the outside only to make the 40' hope-pass and I can't even count the amount of times that our D just retreated and conceded not only the zone, but quality shots too. The bottom line is that we don't have the talent to win a lot of games and we don't have a system that will allow for a team of our calibre to win on a regular basis. So, don't get upset as loses like this will happen, as will big wins. Ottawa, however, like us, has problems and that is the most encouraging part about all of this. You see, we are in a race with other teams that aren't that good either and that must be equally frustrating to watch on a nightly basis. Sure, we get down when the Habs lose a few in a row, but come on, we are still better than so many teams in the East, I mean, can you imagine watching 82 Hurricane games? The playoffs are certainly no guarantee for this Habs group, but, if this week taught me one thing, it is that they are no certainty for almost every other team too.
I agree with him. Too much dead-wood on this team: Lapierre, D'Agostini, MaxPac (he's young though), Gill, Mara, Laraque, etc. They need to wake up, get demoted or shipped out.

Good analysis on Carey Price's performance too:

Quote:
Carey didn't give his team a chance to win easily, but with 6 PPs it should not have mattered. This was a game in which we out-shot Ottawa, out-chanced them and had triple the PPs. So, our offence, in my mind, let down Price. I can't, however, be blind to the fact that he let in one bad goal (the 1st) and at least one other that I would expect a player with as much potential to get. His 'hope-it-hits-me' technique didn't translate into 2 or less tonight and unfortunately the offence took care of the rest of the bad news.


Last edited by eightyseven: 01-17-2010 at 01:32 AM.
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01-17-2010, 01:23 AM
  #270
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Yeah so you expect the habs to score 5 goals every game ?

That's exactly what I'm saying, we're not the washington capitals. Our O is not exactly amazing. On most nights we need our goaltender to be better than Price was tonight.
Instead of blaming the players getting paid top money to score goal, you rather blame the 22 yr old goalie for having an ordinary game?

I dont expect the team to score 5 goals every games, i dont expect our goalie to steal every games either. Price has to steal game for his team, what about team helping Price to win game too?

Price is not at the same level as Brodeur, Luongo, Miller, Kipper, Nabby yet. He is still young. Habs put him in an extremely difficult position (stealing games for the team night after night). His stats are not awful, around the middle of the league.

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01-17-2010, 01:23 AM
  #271
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Yeah Price gave up a huge fat juicy rebound to alfy and couldn't keep his stick on the ice for the save on the rebound. That's why the sens scored at least 1 of the 2 goals.

You like to think the "sens battled back". That is not what I saw. I saw the momentum shift completely after that stinker, and then Price couldn't make a difficult save on that deflection then Brodeur made a good save on Gionta and didn't allow any more stinkers and they won the game.



Yeah so you expect the habs to score 5 goals every game ?

That's exactly what I'm saying, we're not the washington capitals. Our O is not exactly amazing. On most nights we need our goaltender to be better than Price was tonight.
I love how people become Francois Allaire all of a sudden.

1)You have probably never played hockey in your life (not park or beer league hockey
2)If you did you probably weren't a goalie

Because if you think deflected shots are bad goals then My friend i guess 99% of goals scored on NHL goalies are bad goals.

And also to say the goal Price let in was a stinker is just sad because stinkers are unscreened shots from the red line from Laraque not rebounds in the slot by Allfie.

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01-17-2010, 01:28 AM
  #272
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Why is it impossible to think Price has a lot of talent and will most likely realize this talent sooner or later while STILL being able to admit that he's been playing like **** for a while.

Why can't some people ever fault the goalies. It is one of the most important position in hockey. A strong goaltender turns a team like the habs into a top 4 team in the conference. Case in point Buffalo. They're a .500 team without Miller.
How has Price been playing like **** for a while??

People want to blame Price for being inconsistent..how come they don't do they same for Halak?

Halak has given up 4+ goals in 7 of his 19 starts. Price has given up 4+ in 4 of his 30 starts.

Halak has had a save % lower than .900 in 8 of his 19 starts. Thats 42% of his games.

Price has had a save % lower than .900 in 10 of his 30 starts. Thats 30% of his starts.

Halak has 3 wins when he gives up 4+ goals. His save % in those 3 wins is .869.

Price has 3 wins when he gives up 3+ goals. His save % is .923 in those 3 wins.

Halak has given up 2 or less in 10 of his 19 starts. He is 8-2 in those games.

Price has given up 2 or less in 12 of his 30 starts. He is 6-6 in those games.

So it seems that Halak is the all or nothing goalie whereas Price is more steady. Halak has 3 wins where is save % is not even .890. Price does not have 1 win in that scenario.

How can you say a goalie who win 5-4 did enough to win but a goalie that loses 2-1 or 3-2 did not?

Montreal is a mediocre team and mediocrity means inconsistency. That is what we have seem from the team in front of both our goalies.

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01-17-2010, 01:29 AM
  #273
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Sens outplayed the Habs, plain and simple. I don't get why people need to find a scapegoat after every loss... Why not just accepting that the entire team sucked? Sure, maybe Price should of had the first goal, but was he the sole reason for the loss? I really don't think so... I mean, the team did have 6 power play opportunities, and failed to score on any of them.

I just can't stand blaming goalies for losses (unless they really crap the bed and stop absolutely nothing)... maybe it's because I was a goalie back when I played soccer and hockey and I sort of see things a little differently when it comes to them.

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01-17-2010, 01:29 AM
  #274
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Instead of blaming the players getting paid top money to score goal, you rather blame the 22 yr old goalie for having an ordinary game?

I dont expect the team to score 5 goals every games, i dont expect our goalie to steal every games either. Price has to steal game for his team, what about team helping Price to win game too?

Price is not at the same level as Brodeur, Luongo, Miller, Kipper, Nabby yet. He is still young. Habs put him in an extremely difficult position (stealing games for the team night after night). His stats are not awful, around the middle of the league.
What people don't seem to get is that almost all the "top goalies" are 27-32 years old and most didn't start until they where 23-24 and some also didn't start until they where 26+ so expecting Price to be that good is almot unfair to him.

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01-17-2010, 01:29 AM
  #275
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First post.

I'm not for or against either goalie - I'm just in it for us winning, no matter who or how.

For posters to compare Price to greats of the past is a real stretch. You might instead wonder why BG has fast-tracked him to the #1 spot so abruptly. He gives up odd soft goals, but considering his age, the situation, it is understandable. His upside is very high.

For his to-the-hilt defenders, you don't seem to see anything wrong with anything he does. Soft goals do deflate teams. He lets in one nearly every game. Players play more on their heels, pinch less, hesitate - there is not the confidence to take a chance. Part of that is obviously ability, part is coaching, but part has to be put on the goalie - no matter his upside.

Halak supporters / bashers have similar problems.

There are so many other weak aspects to the team, it is amazing that so many posts are devoted exclusively to this topic. The team has a defensive corps and a forwards corps that do not mesh at all. The lack of depth is frightening, and we have nothing after the top two lines - or five players now. We have two players who have no business plying their trade in the NHL now, one who is a luxury we cannot afford, and a collection of defensemen who back in whatever the situation. The team as a whole concedes the corners and back of the net automatically, and generally are too deep to defend against the point. Our faceoffs are pretty poor, our lack of imagination brutal and still we do not defend our teammates after late hits or cheap shots - especially our goalies, who are always left to themselves after the usual scrums.

To have two goalies who are more than capable is a real luxury. The enemy is not ourselves...

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