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Old
01-16-2010, 10:12 PM
  #26
nullterm
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Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet View Post
I think Cogliano and Nilsson will be out.

However, just for the record, I have to say that I really don't think the small forwards are what's wrong with this team.
I don't think they are specifically what's wrong. But I think the ease with which other teams can push them around is part of it.

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01-16-2010, 10:13 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by reginaoil View Post
I hope it isn't EDM. Hemsky is very overrated among EDM fans. Outside EDM who would give Hemsky that much?
Likely, any team with the cap room to sign him. He's a skilled player, who has never played with anyone on the Oil who can properly match his skill level.

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01-16-2010, 10:17 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Hockey Buddha View Post
For the record, what do you think is wrong with this team?
Poor management, bad game management by the coaching staff, over priced aging veterans with contracts the Oilers will be hard pressed to get rid of, goal tending, defense, injuries & illness, and [my favorite pet peeve] players like Jacques and Stone being used on scoring lines which makes the scoring line ineffective and doesn't allow them to use what they might otherwise bring to this team.

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01-16-2010, 10:22 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet View Post
Poor management, bad game management by the coaching staff, over priced aging veterans with contracts the Oilers will be hard pressed to get rid of, goal tending, defense, injuries & illness, and [my favorite pet peeve] players like Jacques and Stone being used on scoring lines which makes the scoring line ineffective and doesn't allow them to use what they might otherwise bring to this team.
So what was wrong the last two years? Same results and no Stone or JFJ, different coaching, etc..

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01-16-2010, 10:24 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by nullterm View Post
I don't think they are specifically what's wrong. But I think the ease with which other teams can push them around is part of it.
Ok. But, I don't think it's just the small guys getting pushed around. IMO, the position where size is really lacking on this team is defense. Other than Souray, there really isn't anyone who can put the fear of God into anyone. All of the other D-men really get knocked off the puck and man handled far more regularly than the smaller forwards do.

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01-16-2010, 10:25 PM
  #31
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I think it's okay if for every small guy, there's 2 bigger guys.

I'd like to keep Gagner (top 6), Eberle (top 6), Brule (bottom 6) and Omark (top 6). All the other smurfs can go.

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01-16-2010, 10:32 PM
  #32
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I'm all for having bigger guys in the lineup. But, "bigger" doesn't mean a damned thing if they can't skate, shoot the puck, pass, receive a pass, create a play, etc.....again, I see guys like Jacques / Stone as huge liabilities here - way more so than any of the smaller forwards. They don't even provide what they were allegedly supposed to provide, "crust".

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01-16-2010, 10:34 PM
  #33
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let's let the players themselves decide if they deserve a spot regardless of their size. play big, you get to stay, play small, get a job sellin' peanuts in the stands !

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01-16-2010, 10:41 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
I think it's okay if for every small guy, there's 2 bigger guys.

I'd like to keep Gagner (top 6), Eberle (top 6), Brule (bottom 6) and Omark (top 6). All the other smurfs can go.
Is that the new math?

1st line. Gagner - BIG - BIG
2nd line. Eberle - BIG - BIG
3rd line. Brule - BIG - BIG

Where does Omark go?

This is a really tough call. I really like Nilsson's game lately - a poor man's Hemsky. POS has been picking it up lately too. Nobody competes with Cogs' speed.

I go with Gags and Eberle, but I'd want to give Omark a legit chance too. I think Eberle plays in the AHL next year if Omark outplays him at camp. Those two will battle for a roster spot, IMO.

Comrie will be traded for a 4th at the deadline.

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Old
01-16-2010, 10:48 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Hockey Buddha View Post
Likely, any team with the cap room to sign him. He's a skilled player, who has never played with anyone on the Oil who can properly match his skill level.
He's played with player after player brought in just for him.With attributes supposedly to compliment Hemsky's game.

6 M players outside of EDM can produce with lesser players than he has been paired with, along with usually a vastly better defensive game.

They are 6M players because they produce despite linemates that do not match their skill level.

The teams who pay guys like Hemsky 6 M are the ones we see unable to get to the next level.

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01-16-2010, 10:54 PM
  #36
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the topic said pick two forwards, and even though I believe there's room for more I would choose Comrie for his salary to capabilities ratio, and Gagne for his work ethic that we saw in the not so far past, I think he's just had a bad couple of seasons. Both these guys should perform well on a 100 % healthy team.
now lets just get a stud center that can blow our minds !

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01-16-2010, 11:30 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet View Post
Ok. But, I don't think it's just the small guys getting pushed around. IMO, the position where size is really lacking on this team is defense. Other than Souray, there really isn't anyone who can put the fear of God into anyone. All of the other D-men really get knocked off the puck and man handled far more regularly than the smaller forwards do.
I think center is where the team is really lacking, especially in the size department. If you've got two small forwards in your top six down the wing you're fine. But it's a completely different matter if those two are your centers and expected to face the Thorntons, Marleaus, Getzlafs of the league. The other team just needs to adopt a simple game plan of maintaining pressure and not giving any room for your Gagner types to have time and space.

Souray had it when he thought the team could contend, it seems to be rubbing off on Gilbert lately, and Smid is just getting nastier by the day. If Souray and one more d-man are moved, then if the Oil can pickup a young nasty shutdown d-man and either Chorney or Peckham is ready then the backend will be okay.

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01-16-2010, 11:35 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by reginaoil View Post
He's played with player after player brought in just for him.With attributes supposedly to compliment Hemsky's game.

6 M players outside of EDM can produce with lesser players than he has been paired with, along with usually a vastly better defensive game.

They are 6M players because they produce despite linemates that do not match their skill level.

The teams who pay guys like Hemsky 6 M are the ones we see unable to get to the next level.
I think that you and I are of very different minds on Hemsky.

As for bringing in player after player.

Sykora? Streaky player. Some chemistry, but too streaky to be counted on consistently. Sykora likely couldn't even tell you the colour of his own goalie's jersey; he spent so little time in his own zone.

Cole? He never wanted to play here. It was very obvious. He sulked and put in little effort on many nights as an Oiler. I'm not unconvinced that he didn't poison this team a little, while he was here.

Kotalik? Meh. A fellow countryman, but a second line player at best.

MPS could be a complimentary player for Hemsky, and it looks like Penner has found his form.

Hemsky was playing injured this year and was a ppg player despite the injury.

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01-16-2010, 11:44 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
Hemsky, Gagner, Eberle, Cogliano, Nilson, and POS who seem ready to be in our top 6 next year.
Hemsky is exempt, he's not big, but he's not small nor does he play small.

Eberle, Gagner (2C).

Nilsson... is a conundrum. I love what I've been seeing from him. But the question remains, is he just teasing us?

Cogliano either to a top six wing or trade his rights. No more seasons for him on the 3rd or 4th lines ever.

Sully is my first odd man out.

Comrie, great to see ya again, but unless he's a fit on the 3rd doesn't fit in with the rebuild.

Omark... don't know enough about him.

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01-16-2010, 11:47 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by nullterm View Post
I think center is where the team is really lacking, especially in the size department. If you've got two small forwards in your top six down the wing you're fine. But it's a completely different matter if those two are your centers and expected to face the Thorntons, Marleaus, Getzlafs of the league. The other team just needs to adopt a simple game plan of maintaining pressure and not giving any room for your Gagner types to have time and space.

Souray had it when he thought the team could contend, it seems to be rubbing off on Gilbert lately, and Smid is just getting nastier by the day. If Souray and one more d-man are moved, then if the Oil can pickup a young nasty shutdown d-man and either Chorney or Peckham is ready then the backend will be okay.
Ok, well I'm totally on board for getting rid of Gagner....and Horcoff [oh wait, that won't happen], and Potulny - but, honestly - I just feel like people keep looking at small forwards and saying they want them gone....but, those are the only players with actual NHL skill [other than Penner]. So......I just don't see how dumping all of your smaller guys is a solution. Unless you're really going to trade them for actual NHL power forward type guys, which you're not since who the hell would trade a quality power forward for a midget?

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01-17-2010, 12:00 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet View Post
Ok, well I'm totally on board for getting rid of Gagner....and Horcoff [oh wait, that won't happen], and Potulny - but, honestly - I just feel like people keep looking at small forwards and saying they want them gone....but, those are the only players with actual NHL skill [other than Penner]. So......I just don't see how dumping all of your smaller guys is a solution. Unless you're really going to trade them for actual NHL power forward type guys, which you're not since who the hell would trade a quality power forward for a midget?
Potulny ain't small (not big either) at 6ft, 190. He could stick as the 3C, maybe 2C on occasion.

Skill is great, but if you don't have the tools (choose from speed, size, strength, toughness) that allow you to use it in the NHL then doesn't matter.

I'm sure there's lots of 12 year old minor players out there with tons more skill than my aged beer leaguerness, but I can probably take that away just by bullying them physically and not giving them any room.

One small center (Gagner most likely) is fine as a 2C. A small 1C only make sense if he's surrounded by two wingers with size/strength. Say Penner-Gagner-Doan/Knuble would be great.

I don't even think it's how big the player is, more how big do they play. But most of our small forwards don't play a big game like you'd see from St Louis or Fleury back in the day.

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01-17-2010, 12:29 AM
  #42
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Nillson Cogliano should go,Gagner Brule Eberle should stay. Hemmer is not small.

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01-17-2010, 12:30 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by nafrelio View Post
Is that the new math?

1st line. Gagner - BIG - BIG
2nd line. Eberle - BIG - BIG
3rd line. Brule - BIG - BIG

Where does Omark go?

This is a really tough call. I really like Nilsson's game lately - a poor man's Hemsky. POS has been picking it up lately too. Nobody competes with Cogs' speed.

I go with Gags and Eberle, but I'd want to give Omark a legit chance too. I think Eberle plays in the AHL next year if Omark outplays him at camp. Those two will battle for a roster spot, IMO.

Comrie will be traded for a 4th at the deadline.
Yeah I know, but it's kinda just what I thought. Maybe there can be an exception (there will have to be) with one or two lines.

I'd like to see something like this.

Penner-Gagner-Hemsky
Pajaarvi-Brule-Eberle
Omark-Seguin/Hall-???
Jacques-???-Stortini

Horcoff, for the love of anything sacred, I want gone, bannished, from the organization entirely. I don't care if they trade him for an 8th round pick, send him to the minors or have him get claimed off waivers, or even buy him out... I'm done with #10.

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01-17-2010, 01:31 AM
  #44
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Hemsky, Eberle.

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