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Old
06-21-2010, 09:30 PM
  #976
me2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubiquitous View Post
Kabanov at 43 on Bob MacKenzie's Final Draft Rankings, you've gotta think a team would be willing to risk a second rounder on a guy with his kind of talent, regardless of the head case problems he may have...wouldn't mind seeing us trade down and taking a flyer on him if we can change our first rounder into two second rounders. I may be in the minority, but this is a guy who was ranked top 5 at the start of the season...

He is supposedly a top 5 talent, so I think someone will. Ask yourself would you
a) give up 3 x 2nd rounders for Gudbranson?
b) a 2nd rounder for a 1/3 shot at Gudbranson?

A 2nd round is worth it if you think he has only has a 33% chance of sorting his problems. I think he'd still have trade value if he doesn't work out, get you back a 3rd or a 4th or just as bait (ala White).

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06-21-2010, 09:40 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by rebel diamond View Post
Count me on the Tinordi bandwagon as well. I was originally pushing for Sheahan or Kabanov, but the more I think about having a 6'6" physical d-man patrolling our blueline for years to come, the more I like the sounds of that.

The Bieksa hate around here is getting to epic proportions...

Ross (along with Bennet) is one of the guys I think are being massively overrated. I'm always wary of massive climbs over the course of the season, especially when the linemate is a possible top-10 pick.
yeah i really want...alexei semenov patrolling our blueline.

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Old
06-21-2010, 09:42 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by me2 View Post
He is supposedly a top 5 talent, so I think someone will. Ask yourself would you
a) give up 3 x 2nd rounders for Gudbranson?
b) a 2nd rounder for a 1/3 shot at Gudbranson?

A 2nd round is worth it if you think he has only has a 33% chance of sorting his problems. I think he'd still have trade value if he doesn't work out, get you back a 3rd or a 4th or just as bait (ala White).
It's so tempting but in the back of my head, I keep hearing a small voice yelling Pavel Brendl over and over again. I'm still really torn on if I'd be happy or not to get this guy.

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Old
06-21-2010, 10:16 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
For myself, if Johns was selected with any of our hypothetical 2nds, i would be downright livid. He sounds just like Ellington - every report i've read suggests that he does not make good decisions with pressure in the defensive zone. That's a major concern for a guy who is supposed to be a tough, bruising defensive defensemen.

In the 2nd round, i'd probably select a forward with the highest of the 2 hypothetical 2nd rounders. I'd probably look hard at Bennett (if he does fall), Jarnkrok, Nelson, or Rensfeldt. Then for the subsequent pick (which would range from 45-55), i would focus more on defensemen. Looking at Gauthier-Leduc, Melchiori, Archibald, MacKenzie, or Nemeth. I feel all have a very high upside as two-way defenders. My darkhorse to reach their potential is Archibald and perhaps Melchiori.

I think Ross is a bit over-rated because of the quality of his line mates (don't forget he plays with 2 top 10 picks), but there are other ways to spin your explanation. Some might see massive climbs as their development curve - steeper being better.
Johns is larger and hands-down a better skater than Ellington and I'd say he is also a better puck-handler. Also Johns offensive ceiling is much higher than Taylor's.

Quote:
"He's very skilled, an excellent skater who's good with the puck. He's big and strong for his age and will only get bigger and stronger. He can really shoot the puck. And he'll do whatever needs to be done to work on his game. He's a great kid to coach with an excellent attitude and a great sense of humor. He's good in the locker room and a good teammate. And that's important for his future development and in projecting how good of a hockey player he can be and how he can fit into a team." - Joe Gaul, coach with midget AAA Pittsburgh Hornets organization.
Quote:
"He's a big kid who likes to play physical, is skilled and skates well. Right now we're working with him to be a little more patient on the defensive side. He's always been able to be aggressive, make mistakes and get away with it, but the higher up the ladder you go, the less forgiving that's going to be. But Stephen has nice offensive instincts and he's willing to learn.“Stephen is probably the best athlete in the group, (among US U18 Team defenseman). He has size, good skills and is making better decisions on the ice.” - Kurt Kleinendorst; former assistant coach with the New Jersey Devils organization and is currently head coach of the U.S. National Team Development Program U-18.

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06-21-2010, 10:25 PM
  #980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel diamond View Post
Ross (along with Bennet) is one of the guys I think are being massively overrated. I'm always wary of massive climbs over the course of the season, especially when the linemate is a possible top-10 pick.
I dont think he's overrated as being a 2nd round pick. He isnt being touted for being a highly productive player. It's moreso his grit and agitation factor plus the fact that he can chip in a few.

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Old
06-21-2010, 10:49 PM
  #981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubiquitous View Post
It's so tempting but in the back of my head, I keep hearing a small voice yelling Pavel Brendl over and over again. I'm still really torn on if I'd be happy or not to get this guy.
I'd be happy if we got him and meh if we don't. win-win

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Old
06-22-2010, 01:54 AM
  #982
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I wouldn't be surprised if Tinordi is one of those guys that goes a little earlier then some think he might go (15-20 range).

He's a big kid who can skate relatively well for a big kid. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see a team take a chance on a guy like Tinordi.

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Old
06-22-2010, 01:59 AM
  #983
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I found a fairly in depth scouting report on Jarred Tinordi.
http://www.diebytheblade.com/2010/6/...jared-tinordi-

Jared Tinordi

Defense
USNTDP U-18
6'-6" 201 lbs.
Shoots: Left
Hometown: Millersville, MD
Date of Birth: February 20, 1992

Stats: 52 GP, 4 G, 8 A, 12 PTS 81 PIM
Scouting Report

The Good - Tinordi is a towering presence on the ice. He is a physical stay-at-home defenseman that could become a top-four defenseman if he develops his game. He skates well for a big man and has been blessed with some very good mobility that allows him to make some athletic plays.

He is a natural born leader, which is evident by him being the captain of the USNTDP U-18 team this season and the U-17 team the second half of last season. His leadership will help him develop into an everyday NHL player.

The name Tinordi will sound familiar to many of you because his father Mark Tinordi was a stay-at-home defenseman with four different NHL teams, including the Washington Capitals when they went to the Cup Finals in 1988.


The Bad
- Tinordi has very limited offensive skills and he won't be much of a point producer when he makes it to the NHL. He has a decent shot from the point but he is more of a defensive defenseman.

He plays with great intensity but it sometimes gets the best of him. He needs to learn to keep his emotions in check and avoid taking dumb penalties. He plays a physical game but he sometimes puts himself out of position to make a check. He needs to learn when to play physical and when he needs to stay in position.

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Old
06-22-2010, 02:16 AM
  #984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Drunken Crunker View Post
Johns is larger and hands-down a better skater than Ellington and I'd say he is also a better puck-handler. Also Johns offensive ceiling is much higher than Taylor's.
Yes, he does have a offensive upside much greater to Ellington in his draft year, but i think you forget that Ellington was considered a "good" skater with "good" mobility by scouts too in his draft year.

Also, i did reference that his hockey sense is simply not there. Even in the quote you listed, you seem to ignore the fact that his coach also highlights his decision making as his weakness. Its not the only report of it either.

Quote:
Johns plays physically and should develop into a prototypical defensive defenseman who does have the ability to make a good first pass. He possesses a good, hard shot but he too was guilty of making poor decisions by forcing the puck, only to have it blocked several times. Also, Johns will need to improve upon his technique in pressuring puck carriers in the corner. On a few occasions, the OSU forwards were able to get around Johns and catch him flat footed
One of the most important things i tend to value is Hockey Sense as we've seen its importance. Same reason why i am not entirely high/sold on Brock Beukeboom.

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06-22-2010, 03:17 AM
  #985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
I found a fairly in depth scouting report on Jarred Tinordi.
http://www.diebytheblade.com/2010/6/...jared-tinordi-

Jared Tinordi

Defense
USNTDP U-18
6'-6" 201 lbs.
Shoots: Left
Hometown: Millersville, MD
Date of Birth: February 20, 1992

Stats: 52 GP, 4 G, 8 A, 12 PTS 81 PIM
Scouting Report

The Good - Tinordi is a towering presence on the ice. He is a physical stay-at-home defenseman that could become a top-four defenseman if he develops his game. He skates well for a big man and has been blessed with some very good mobility that allows him to make some athletic plays.

He is a natural born leader, which is evident by him being the captain of the USNTDP U-18 team this season and the U-17 team the second half of last season. His leadership will help him develop into an everyday NHL player.

The name Tinordi will sound familiar to many of you because his father Mark Tinordi was a stay-at-home defenseman with four different NHL teams, including the Washington Capitals when they went to the Cup Finals in 1988.


The Bad
- Tinordi has very limited offensive skills and he won't be much of a point producer when he makes it to the NHL. He has a decent shot from the point but he is more of a defensive defenseman.

He plays with great intensity but it sometimes gets the best of him. He needs to learn to keep his emotions in check and avoid taking dumb penalties. He plays a physical game but he sometimes puts himself out of position to make a check. He needs to learn when to play physical and when he needs to stay in position.
To me, this kind of sounds like Komasarek...which isn't a bad thing if he turned into something like that I suppose.

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Old
06-22-2010, 03:23 AM
  #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
Yes, he does have a offensive upside much greater to Ellington in his draft year, but i think you forget that Ellington was considered a "good" skater with "good" mobility by scouts too in his draft year.

Also, i did reference that his hockey sense is simply not there. Even in the quote you listed, you seem to ignore the fact that his coach also highlights his decision making as his weakness. Its not the only report of it either.



One of the most important things i tend to value is Hockey Sense as we've seen its importance. Same reason why i am not entirely high/sold on Brock Beukeboom.
I do think Johns is the overall better prospect when compared directly to Ellington; that is of course just based on personal opinion.

Then again this is a pretty hard draft to predict. From about 25 to 60-70 picks are fairly interchangeable and are contingent upon each teams personal measures and criterion.

Can't wait though!

Anyone else get the same feeling of excitement once only known as a kid on Christmases and birthdays?

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Old
06-22-2010, 05:27 AM
  #987
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Thought i would share some info on 4 of the defensemen i listed earlier since i'm not planning on going to bed anytime soon. (Using Combine Measurements). Sorry for the Length.

1. Brandon Archibald - 6'3.5" - 189 lbs - 2009-10 Regular Season Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds 68 5 28 33 81
I really like him and think there is some very good potential here. He has been very consistent throughout the season, playing top pairing minutes with Muzzin and in all situations. But just looking at the Combine results, they are a bit disappointing compared to this class of defensemen. He may still be around mid 3rd - let's hope we get some more picks.
Quote:
Archibald, who plays for the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds of the OHL, is a Michigander with a big frame (6-3, 205) who projects as a solid shutdown defender when he fills out. He's mobile and smart, and has been a dependable player on the blue line this season. He's not a fighter, but has shown a willingness to drop the gloves when challenged and has proven to be more than capable of holding his own. He may not have a big offensive upside, but he's a character player with the strong hockey skills to be a solid second-round projection right now. http://bruins2010draftwatch.blogspot...w-brandon.html
Quote:
As mentioned, I've preferred Archibald to Beukeboom all season long. I think he profiles better as an NHL defenseman and has a higher end potential. He's got really good size and could be 6'4, +200lbs by the time he hits the NHL. For such a big defender, I think his backward and lateral mobility is excellent. He stays with rushing forwards very well and is tough to beat to the outside. That being said, he needs to learn to use his size more, but he did make great strides in that area this season. I think he'll get more physical as he matures and becomes more comfortable. Offensively, it's all about confidence. He has the capability to skate the puck up ice, but will often elect to pass or chip the puck out of his zone. This lack of confidence can lead to some turnovers in his own end at times. But he did a pretty good job on the Hounds second powerplay unit this season and actually had a pretty good shot. I think his offensive game will only get better and he profiles as a top quality two way defender in the NHL.
2. Julian Melchiori - 6'3" 197 - 2009-2010 Newmarket CCHL 39 7 16 23 16
I've been trying to pimp this guy out as much as possible because you don't hear about him often. Seems like the Canucks are on to him too (Read 2nd Quote).

Other reads: http://www.thescoutingreport.org/tie...sbuzzers-game/ & http://collegehockey247.rivals.com/c...sp?CID=1082346
Quote:
Melchiori (Newmarket in the CCHL) is similar to Abeltshauser in that he's tall and lanky (6-3, 186) with an advanced offensive game and good instincts as a point man. He also needs to develop a more physical game and learn how to use his size to advantage in one-on-one battles, but his steady progression over the second half of the season leads Red Line to believe that his development curve is on a steep upward spiral.
Quote:
In addition to getting a positive vibe from the B’s, Melchiori also felt good about his meeting with the Florida Panthers, Atlanta Thrashers and Vancouver Canucks. As far as the interview process went, every team took a different approach, however.

“They were all very different,” he said. “Some teams had four guys (in the room asking questions); some had 30. Some teams are more up front and serious in their questions, while others were a little more laid-back, but I just tried to be as honest as I could with my answers.”

Perrin said that Melchiori’s intelligence, maturity and dedication to the sport make him as well-rounded an athlete as any he’s had the privilege of coaching. http://www.hockeyjournal.com/news/20...well-bound.php
3. Matt McKenzie - 6'1" 197 - 2009-2010 Calgary WHL 64 6 34 40 62
Perhaps the safest to make the NHL of these 4, but may not have the high-end potential.
Quote:
MacKenzie’s a smart player, and he has a range of talents. Up until this season, he’d been relied upon as a shutdown defenceman, a role he carries out well. McKeen’s describes his game as “error free at the junior level” and he’s smart enough to know where to be and aggressive enough to use his body on the opposition. MacKenzie blew the doors off offensively this season, doubling his goal output and putting up 40 points in 64 games, and he kept scoring in the playoffs. Red Line Report’s Michael Remmerde said he reminds him “just a tiny bit of Mike Green at the same age.”

MacKenzie isn’t small, but he isn’t big for his position either, at 6’1” and 190 lbs. His skating isn’t a weakness, but it isn’t high-end either, and he needs to continue to develop that area of his game. Other than that, there really aren’t any holes, but some scouts are concerned that he won’t put up numbers at the NHL level.

At the junior level, MacKenzie’s a picture-perfect two-way defenceman, a guy who can play in any situation and be expected to excel. The question is whether or not he has the physical ability to carry that over to the NHL, or if he’ll end up as just a serviceable defenceman on the bottom end of the roster. http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2010/0...att-mackenzie/
For an even more in depth review, check Remmerde's review: http://nhldraftnotes.blogspot.com/20...lgary-whl.html
I really like this guy as well in the 2nd, but the Nuck's didn't interview him.
Quote:
MacKenzie arrived in Toronto for the 2010 Scouting Combine last Tuesday night. First thing Wednesday morning he began meeting with a handful of NHL teams. He attended 11 the first day and five the second day with the Flames and Toronto being the only two Canadian teams to speak with him. http://www.hitmenhockey.com/index.asp?newsID=713
4. Patrik Nemeth - 6'3.5" 204lbs - AIK J20 SuperElit 38 1 19 20 120
Quote:
Nemeth has gone really under the radar, while McIlrath and Tinordi get noticed for their punishing play and big frames, Nemeth is more of the same overseas in Sweden. Tremendous skater for his size, Nemeth moves himself around very well with his gap control on forwards and finishes them cleanly swiftly. He can maul forwards along the sideboards and in his crease area, but what makes Nemeth so intriguing is how selective his aggressiveness is and his smart defensive play. He doesn’t take himself out of the play, rather clearing the forwards or using his body if it’s the most ideal play. His offensive upside is limited, he will push a puck out of the zone but won’t be seen threading needles or blasting pucks past goalies (one goal all year in 57 Swedish league games). His skating, smarts and frame though can make him a desirable asset to become a good shutdown defender in the future.

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Old
06-22-2010, 10:22 AM
  #988
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Gillis hints at what his draft strategy may(or may not) be?

Link: http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...700/story.html

Quote:
The safe bet this year for the Canucks would be to look at bloodlines and draft towering defenceman Jarred Tinordi.

The son of former NHL defenceman Mark Tinordi is a product of the U.S. National Team Development Program and had nine points and 68 penalty minutes last season.

The 6-foot-6, 205-pound blueliner was a member of the world under-18 championship team and is projected as a tough defensive defenceman. He's destined for Notre Dame University.

"From all accounts, he's a very good player who might be there," said Gillis.

"Toughness is something you'd like to have and you can't manufacture that. It comes in all different forms, but I'm not necessarily sure that's a focus we have to have."
Would seem to hint his focus lies elsewhere other than toughness. Mayhaps scratch McIlrath off the list?

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06-22-2010, 11:25 AM
  #989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
Gillis hints at what his draft strategy may(or may not) be?

Link: http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...700/story.html



Would seem to hint his focus lies elsewhere other than toughness. Mayhaps scratch McIlrath off the list?
I'm still laughing at the "We Are All Leaders" rafter banner btw. I think I find it so funny because it seems very much possible.

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06-22-2010, 01:58 PM
  #990
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If the Canucks are indeed interested in trading down for multiple picks, Florida now seems like a real possibility. After today's Horton deal, Florida now has 5 of the first 50 picks (3, 15, 33, 36, 50).

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06-22-2010, 02:18 PM
  #991
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If the Canucks are indeed interested in trading down for multiple picks, Florida now seems like a real possibility. After today's Horton deal, Florida now has 5 of the first 50 picks (3, 15, 33, 36, 50).
Yeah - I was looking at Boston (was 2, 15, 32 and 45), but after the Horton deal I like Florida (3, 15, 33, 36, 50).

Since Boston doesn't have a 3rd rounder (traded to Buffalo for Daniel Paille) they might not want to give up their 2 second round picks to move back up into the first round at #25. But Florida could see value in trading 33 and 50 for 25. That would give Florida 3 first rounders and a high second rounder.

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06-22-2010, 02:52 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by PRNuck View Post
I'm still laughing at the "We Are All Leaders" rafter banner btw. I think I find it so funny because it seems very much possible.
Oh God, yeah. I woke up and was genuinely concerned and mystified for a few moments because I wasn't sure if it was a dream or if it had actually happened.

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06-22-2010, 03:24 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
Yeah - I was looking at Boston (was 2, 15, 32 and 45), but after the Horton deal I like Florida (3, 15, 33, 36, 50).

Since Boston doesn't have a 3rd rounder (traded to Buffalo for Daniel Paille) they might not want to give up their 2 second round picks to move back up into the first round at #25. But Florida could see value in trading 33 and 50 for 25. That would give Florida 3 first rounders and a high second rounder.
Man, so jealous of their fans, get to be excited over 4-6 guys in the top 60.

We had that chance in 2007 with 1 1st and 3 2nds. We all know how well that turned out.


I trust in Gillis to make the right choice, he's made the right first round pick in both of the drafts he's participated in so far.

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06-22-2010, 03:35 PM
  #994
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It's so tempting but in the back of my head, I keep hearing a small voice yelling Pavel Brendl over and over again. I'm still really torn on if I'd be happy or not to get this guy.
PS. Pavel Brendl is a godsend in NHL 10. freaking crazy good.

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06-22-2010, 03:39 PM
  #995
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hrm...so Florida now has 3rd overall and 15th overall. Could mean Tallon is less interested in getting another 1st round pick, or may that's his plan (rack up first round picks). In which case my plan still works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymouse View Post
I had originally laid out this plan as a sort of pipe dream if Gillis could acquire a D-man so that Bieksa would be expendable (I can't see him dealing Bieksa until we have a replacement for sure). Also this is if there is no slam dunk pick for Gillis at 25.

1. Trade Bernier to PIT for 80th overall (PIT needs cheap wingers)
2. Trade Bieksa to TOR for 62nd overall (TOR likely will need to replace Kaberle and Finger. Burke likes players he has a history with. Only thing is TOR won't have a pick in first 4 rounds and can Burke/Gillis deal?)
3. Trade 25th, 80th overall to FLA for 33rd, 50th, 92nd, 93rd overall picks

Would give Vancouver the 33rd, 50th, 62nd, 92nd, 93rd, 115th, 145th, 172nd, 175th and 205th picks (total: 10)

Florida would have 3rd, 15th, 25th, 36th, 80th, 123rd, 153rd, 183rd picks (total: 8)

Only thing is today Pierre Lebrun wrote in his article that Tallon may rather stock pile draft picks so who knows where moving up falls on his priority list.

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06-22-2010, 04:59 PM
  #996
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Closed because we are approaching 1,000 posts. New thread opened.

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