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Old
01-17-2010, 06:21 PM
  #1
c-carp
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Offseason question

I am glad that the team is playing well agains but the simple fact is that they quit on the previous coach. I think that no matter what happens the reat of they year thet have to make changes to the lineup before next year.

You have to look at the core players and change the core. I have no idea who because I dont know who the guys in the room were that led the movement to quit on the last coach but you have to show some of them the door in the offseason or before if you can because some of the core guys on the team have shown a tendancy to quit on their coach.

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01-17-2010, 06:27 PM
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Frenzy1
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Originally Posted by c-carp View Post
I am glad that the team is playing well agains but the simple fact is that they quit on the previous coach. I think that no matter what happens the reat of they year thet have to make changes to the lineup before next year.

You have to look at the core players and change the core. I have no idea who because I dont know who the guys in the room were that led the movement to quit on the last coach but you have to show some of them the door in the offseason or before if you can because some of the core guys on the team have shown a tendancy to quit on their coach.
Do you really think they quit on the coach?

The reason I am asking is the effort was good most nights (even at home) until the 3rd period. And you could actually feel the tightness of the team through the TV set - and they began to fall apart. They felt they were going to lose and even at home, you could see it. I think way too much expectation and as much as like Checkets, he should have kept his mouth shut in Nov. That put a ton of pressure on the coach.

The one thing that has been consistent on the road and under Payne is the physical game. Once that was reestablished, the team started to play much better.

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01-17-2010, 06:56 PM
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c-carp
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Originally Posted by Frenzy1 View Post
Do you really think they quit on the coach?

The reason I am asking is the effort was good most nights (even at home) until the 3rd period. And you could actually feel the tightness of the team through the TV set - and they began to fall apart. They felt they were going to lose and even at home, you could see it. I think way too much expectation and as much as like Checkets, he should have kept his mouth shut in Nov. That put a ton of pressure on the coach.

The one thing that has been consistent on the road and under Payne is the physical game. Once that was reestablished, the team started to play much better.
I think it is fair to say that they quit. You mentioned the physical game specifically and I thnk that is the most glaring example of them quitting. Physical play comes from effort you have to want to do it some guys are better than others at playing physical but they all can do it. It is simply an attitude and to me too many of them just simply didnt want to put the effort in under Murray this year.

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01-17-2010, 08:11 PM
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Frenzy1
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Originally Posted by c-carp View Post
I think it is fair to say that they quit. You mentioned the physical game specifically and I thnk that is the most glaring example of them quitting. Physical play comes from effort you have to want to do it some guys are better than others at playing physical but they all can do it. It is simply an attitude and to me too many of them just simply didnt want to put the effort in under Murray this year.
Why do you think that is? The played hard for him last year. Only changes have been PK, EJ, and a healthy Brewer.

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01-17-2010, 08:30 PM
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c-carp
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Originally Posted by Frenzy1 View Post
Why do you think that is? The played hard for him last year. Only changes have been PK, EJ, and a healthy Brewer.
I have given up trying to figure out Pro Athletes. I have no proof, I have never been in the locker room the players you mentioned that have been added to the lineup should have made the team better.

I just know that watching that team on a nightly basis there were more thana few times where it looked like they had lost theie desire to put the work in for Murray. Under Davis Payne they seem to have picked it up which is why I think there have to be changes in the offseason regardless of how they finish the year.

I know I havent got any concrete evidence other than they seem to be playing harder but it just seems to me like they quit on Murray.

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01-17-2010, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-carp View Post
I just know that watching that team on a nightly basis there were more than a few times where it looked like they had lost their desire to put the work in for Murray. Under Davis Payne they seem to have picked it up which is why I think there have to be changes in the off season regardless of how they finish the year.

I know I haven't got any concrete evidence other than they seem to be playing harder but it just seems to me like they quit on Murray.
Players with pride (most, if not all professional players will not CONSCIOUSLY quit trying hard because they don't like what the coach is doing).

But, subconsciously, they just can't bring that extra effort it takes to compete on a high level, if, deep down, (subconsciously) they DON'T BELIEVE what the team is doing will work. Teams that don't believe they can win will play tentatively, and not control play. They will allow the other team to control play. Murray's endless details, strict rules, and punishments for breaking them, caused The Blues to play tentatively (thus, letting the other teams control play).

When a team doesn't believe in a coach's system, and he seems inflexible towards change, they SUBCONSCIOUSLY "give up" (e.g. are unable to bring out their 110% effort). It's not a matter of "mutiny". They shouldn't be blamed for sabotaging the"innocent" coach.

The coach's job is to get his players to play well in a cohesive unit. If they don't believe in the system, it's the coach's fault.

If my coach pushed us players in practise to the point where we would always run out of gas in the third period of games, I'd let him know my thoughts on that. If my coach had a hard-and-fast rule about shift lengths, so rigid that players left their odd man shifts to return to the bench to avoid punishments of losing ice time, resulting in loss of many goal scoring opportunities, I'd be plenty angry, and not have much faith in that system.

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01-17-2010, 10:24 PM
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c-carp
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Originally Posted by Robb_K View Post
Players with pride (most, if not all professional players will not CONSCIOUSLY quit trying hard because they don't like what the coach is doing).

But, subconsciously, they just can't bring that extra effort it takes to compete on a high level, if, deep down, (subconsciously) they DON'T BELIEVE what the team is doing will work. Teams that don't believe they can win will play tentatively, and not control play. They will allow the other team to control play. Murray's endless details, strict rules, and punishments for breaking them, caused The Blues to play tentatively (thus, letting the other teams control play).

When a team doesn't believe in a coach's system, and he seems inflexible towards change, they SUBCONSCIOUSLY "give up" (e.g. are unable to bring out their 110% effort). It's not a matter of "mutiny". They shouldn't be blamed for sabotaging the"innocent" coach.

The coach's job is to get his players to play well in a cohesive unit. If they don't believe in the system, it's the coach's fault.

If my coach pushed us players in practise to the point where we would always run out of gas in the third period of games, I'd let him know my thoughts on that. If my coach had a hard-and-fast rule about shift lengths, so rigid that players left their odd man shifts to return to the bench to avoid punishments of losing ice time, resulting in loss of many goal scoring opportunities, I'd be plenty angry, and not have much faith in that system.
Fair points. I never played sports at a high enough level to have an atheletes perspective on this. Do you think there needs to be changes to the core group on this team in the off season?

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01-17-2010, 11:56 PM
  #8
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This is a really interesting question.

I tend to agree with the notion that the players did not have confidence individually (or at least many of them didn't) under Murray's system, not that anyone deliberately withheld their best effort. I think Murray is being scapegoated for some things that weren't his fault, but I also think Payne has the makings of a great NHL coach.

The change brought renewed energy, a fresh perspective, and allowed a mental excuse for the players to start fresh. Now they've got some momentum and a belief that they'll win. I think from here on out, ScottTrade is going to be a difficult place for opposing teams to play....and it should be.

The psychology of sports is tricky, and sometimes you just need an excuse to start having success.

I don't believe any special moves need to be made to shake up the roster beyond those things which are already in the works (Kariya, Tkachuk, Sydor gone.) Bringing in Eller, Pietro and/or Junland and signing a free agent veteran who can play a top 6 role (or trading assets to obtain someone of true value, hopefully). Those are the changes I expect to see and that should be plenty.

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01-18-2010, 02:05 AM
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I don't think the core of the team needs to be changed. There have been many things going wrong this season that I think will be fixed by next season. Andy Murray was one of them. Sophomore slumps are another. Also, the team needs better veterans. Kariya and Tkachuk just aren't cutting it. Winchester needs to go.

I say keep the core of the team, try to find some better veterans, and go after a goal scorer.

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01-18-2010, 04:02 AM
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I agree with the last few posts. The young players will progress. Tkachuk will retire. Kariya should be traded at the deadline. Sydor not re-signed. Winchester not re-signed. Eller should already be up for good later this season. Junland and Pietrangelo should be with The Blues next season. A solid veteran defenceman and a solid goal-scoring forward should be picked up.

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01-18-2010, 12:45 PM
  #11
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I think it's false logic to conclude that because Murray failed to get through to the team that the core needs to be changed.

Maybe it was Murray's fault and not the players.

Agree that the base is here now to build on. Next year, Eller replaces Kariya, a fourth-line center replaces Walt, and either Petro or Junland cracks the starting lineup.

The big piece of the puzzle is a high-scoring winger and I don't know where he comes from. You still need one guy who's a threat to score every night.

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01-19-2010, 10:29 AM
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If the team quit on AM then why did they have a good road record? Kariya will be gone and $6MM will be freed up for next season. Maybe someone will want him at the deadline. He is servicable but the miles on his body has taken it's toll. I too would like to see Eller take his place but so far he and Palushaj have not been goal scorers in Peoria.

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01-19-2010, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlweir View Post
If the team quit on AM then why did they have a good road record? Kariya will be gone and $6MM will be freed up for next season. Maybe someone will want him at the deadline. He is servicable but the miles on his body has taken it's toll. I too would like to see Eller take his place but so far he and Palushaj have not been goal scorers in Peoria.
Well that's okay, PK hasn't been a goal scorer in St. Louis, more of a set up guy.

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01-20-2010, 01:37 PM
  #14
Randall Ritchey
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Chris Mason is a UFA this year, and he'll likily be asking 3.5M+
We have Conklin as relief for next year. What about bringing in a goalie who has won a good deal of games but isn't going to be expensive?

I doubt he has a huge push from anyone to sign with. He's not going to be a commodity. But what about Peter Budaj?

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01-20-2010, 01:39 PM
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I'd sign Mason for 2 more years at his current salary...and I think the front office would, too. In addition to being solid on the ice, he's good for the locker room. Goalies can be an odd breed sometimes, and its nice to have a guy who is such a good hard working citizen. Especially when their last goalie blew up psychologically like that, Mason shouldnt' be undervalued.

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01-20-2010, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Ritchey View Post
Chris Mason is a UFA this year, and he'll likily be asking 3.5M+
We have Conklin as relief for next year. What about bringing in a goalie who has won a good deal of games but isn't going to be expensive?

I doubt he has a huge push from anyone to sign with. He's not going to be a commodity. But what about Peter Budaj?
If you are going that route, you should bring in a young goalie and give him the chance to earn the starters role going forward, like Halak, Harding, or Schneider.

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01-22-2010, 09:37 PM
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We definatly need a goal scorer that is proven. We have for a couple of seasons. That would be my top need.

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01-23-2010, 11:10 PM
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I hope we really make an effort to go after Kovalchuck.(if available)

Let Karyia and Tkachuk walk at the end of the sason that should clear enough (8.5 million) to sign Kovalchuck and with the cap going up we should still have enough to resign E.J and Perron.

I would give anything to see Brewer traded ...for anything.

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