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Captain Cormier (Suspended for the remainder of the season.)

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Old
01-18-2010, 10:38 AM
  #76
dustrock
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That's worse than McSorely/Brashear and Bertuzzi/Moore if you ask me.

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01-18-2010, 10:38 AM
  #77
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a violent hit is one thing, throwing a blindside elbow at a defenseless player is something entirely different. Hockey does not have room for such acts.

Dangerous and vicious doesn't describe that hit. It's beyond a cheap shot.

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01-18-2010, 10:41 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Arpeggio View Post
Shouldn't fighting be subject to the law as well then? Fighting is a "hockey play", but what if a guy catches his opponent in the wrong spot, and kills him on the ice? Now he's going to be charged for murder?

What Cormier did was incredibly wrong, and he should be suspended for a long time, but... IMO... it's still a hockey play.
I've asked this already but I'll ask it again. Please tell me EXACTLY when something stops becoming a "hockey play". If someone goes out and beats someone down with their stick or starts kicking someone with their skate, is that still a "hockey play"? If not, then where, exactly, is the line?

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01-18-2010, 10:43 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Krut View Post
Yes, but think about it for a second. Every single hit with devastating effects would be legally reviewed. The Booth hit this year, the Torres hit a few years ago in the playoffs, the Mitchell hit, etc.

It would effectively end hitting. These kinds of things must be taken care of within their respective leagues.

I hate the elbow just as much as you do, but this needs to stay within the QMJHL. I don't think this would even get anywhere in the legal system anyways.
I disagree. This is a predatory player with a bad history who is using a context that should exempt him from the law to commit vicious attacks on other people. Hockey won't stop him--he'll get a nice check from some NHL team next year--so someone else has to.

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Old
01-18-2010, 10:43 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by hmminvisiblecola View Post
Give it up with the Team Canada crap, this has nothing to do with them. Trying to blame them is just plain stupid. Yes it was a dirty hit, but trying to blame the Team Canada managerial staff, give me a break.
Still on your high horse I see.

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Old
01-18-2010, 10:44 AM
  #81
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This guy was a dirt bag at the juinors and should never play hockey again. I'm not one for involving the police but this need some quiet time in jail.

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01-18-2010, 10:46 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by A Vandelay View Post
a violent hit is one thing, throwing a blindside elbow at a defenseless player is something entirely different. Hockey does not have room for such acts.

Dangerous and vicious doesn't describe that hit. It's beyond a cheap shot.
Disgusting is the only word that I can think of. He should be banned from the CHL for life. He was clearly head hunting. There was no intent to throw a shoulder - elbow out and delivered straight to the head.

What an embarassment. Given his history with hits like this, I have to wonder how he was selected as captain of Team Canada at the WJC. I can't imagine that a lot of the guys on that team respect him - certainly not now.

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Old
01-18-2010, 10:47 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
How is it illrelevant? The game is violent and violent **** happens. I don't think it should go to a criminal court to decide.
I think the issue that he is trying to point out is the type of thinking that you have. Just because it is hockey one should not assume an automatic contract of violent and harmful acts.

What your saying is just like saying everytime you get into your car you should expect a dangerous environment and possible harmful acts to occur. Anytime someone rear ends you or t-bones you it shouldn't go to the law courts and the police should just come and give the guy a ticket.

The fact that this violence is happening inside a sport should have no bearing on him receiving legal punishment or not. This is one reason why I think UFC is a ****ing joke.

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01-18-2010, 10:48 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Krut View Post
Yes, but think about it for a second. Every single hit with devastating effects would be legally reviewed. The Booth hit this year, the Torres hit a few years ago in the playoffs, the Mitchell hit, etc.

It would effectively end hitting. These kinds of things must be taken care of within their respective leagues.

I hate the elbow just as much as you do, but this needs to stay within the QMJHL. I don't think this would even get anywhere in the legal system anyways.
This shat bag isn't hitting people he's assulting them. He's not trying to hit them, he's trying to elbow them in the face. He did it in the pre-games at the juinors and he shouldn't be allowed to play the game AT ALL!

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Old
01-18-2010, 10:51 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by AUAIOMRN View Post
I've asked this already but I'll ask it again. Please tell me EXACTLY when something stops becoming a "hockey play". If someone goes out and beats someone down with their stick or starts kicking someone with their skate, is that still a "hockey play"? If not, then where, exactly, is the line?
Pretty simple it stops being a hockey play when it is outside the realm of hockey. Does beating a guy down with your stick and kicking them help you play the game of hockey? No. Not a hockey play. Any other examples you want me to clear up?

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Old
01-18-2010, 10:52 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by AUAIOMRN View Post
I've asked this already but I'll ask it again. Please tell me EXACTLY when something stops becoming a "hockey play". If someone goes out and beats someone down with their stick or starts kicking someone with their skate, is that still a "hockey play"? If not, then where, exactly, is the line?
Since you're stating that there is a line, perhaps you should also put forth your suggestion for where it should be.

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Old
01-18-2010, 10:55 AM
  #87
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Another cowardly act by Cormier. Absolutely pathetic. He should be banned from the Q.

IMO, this hit is worse than the hit involving the guy who got kicked out of his League a couple months ago.

New Jersey can't be happy about this kid's stupidity.

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Old
01-18-2010, 11:00 AM
  #88
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Cormier is in a heap of trouble...I would also like to see his team/coach disciplined.

Its up to each team to demand from themselves a high level of integrity & sportsmanship...especially at a level of play as high as what the Q is.

As a JR coach...when YOUR player does something like this...its a FAILURE on YOUR part. Cormier's punishment is his to own...but his coach should be called upon by the Q as well.

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Old
01-18-2010, 11:02 AM
  #89
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I know it's bad to say, but I hope someone hurts this guy bad and I mean carreer ending bad. He does not deserve to play hockey and get paid to almost kill people. I don't know anything about the poor kid he assulted, but by the looks of it, I don't see too much hockey in his future!

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01-18-2010, 11:07 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanschu View Post
Since you're stating that there is a line, perhaps you should also put forth your suggestion for where it should be.
Already did. Anything that results in a suspension.

The fact that you question that there is a line suggests that you don't think there is one. Does that mean you think someone should be able to break his stick and jam it in a guys throat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
Pretty simple it stops being a hockey play when it is outside the realm of hockey. Does beating a guy down with your stick and kicking them help you play the game of hockey? No. Not a hockey play. Any other examples you want me to clear up?
That is incredibly vague. I don't see how a vicious elbow is any more of a "hockey play" then a beatdown with a hockey stick.

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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
The fact that this violence is happening inside a sport should have no bearing on him receiving legal punishment or not. This is one reason why I think UFC is a ****ing joke.
I assume you mean boxing, since it's more dangerous. Either way, the violence that occurs in boxing and MMA is within the defined realm of those sports. If something occurs outside of those rules that results in a suspension, then I think they should also be subject to the legal system. For example there was a boxing match I saw where the loser decked his opponent after the match. I don't know what became of it but I think criminal charges should have been laid.

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01-18-2010, 11:07 AM
  #91
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I hope no one else on the 2 teams get hurt when they play each other again.

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Old
01-18-2010, 11:15 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by AUAIOMRN View Post
Already did. Anything that results in a suspension.

The fact that you question that there is a line suggests that you don't think there is one. Does that mean you think someone should be able to break his stick and jam it in a guys throat?
It does no such thing. I intentionally made zero comment on a supposed line because I don't feel qualified to state where one should be. I'd have to do a lot more research on the subject. It's confirmation bias and the fact that you would draw that conclusion is patently absurd.


But hey, if you want to give people criminal charges for too many instigator penalties, have at it.

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Old
01-18-2010, 11:23 AM
  #93
Joe Hallenback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AUAIOMRN View Post
I've asked this already but I'll ask it again. Please tell me EXACTLY when something stops becoming a "hockey play". If someone goes out and beats someone down with their stick or starts kicking someone with their skate, is that still a "hockey play"? If not, then where, exactly, is the line?
What he did is a hockey play. It is defined by Elbowing in the rule book. Yes it was a horrendous and disgusting Elbow but it is still a hockey play

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Old
01-18-2010, 11:24 AM
  #94
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How the hell did this kid ever get named the captain of the junior team? Yet another fine example of 'great hockey minds' deciding what's best.

On the hit itself - you can see the deliberation just from the way he came off the bench and was eyeballing Tam as he cut into the middle. If he'd simply stepped in and delivered a shoulder to the chest, that's one thing -- but he brought his elbow up and ripped right into the kid's jaw. Right up until he threw the elbow, I would have said it was a 'hockey play'. Even if he'd thrown a shoulder into his head, it might still be debatable. This goes beyond simple irresponsibility, though, and there was a very clear and vicious intent to injure. However long the poor Tam kid is out, Cormier should sit -- any suspension time should be added on top of that.

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Old
01-18-2010, 11:25 AM
  #95
Joe Hallenback
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
I think the issue that he is trying to point out is the type of thinking that you have. Just because it is hockey one should not assume an automatic contract of violent and harmful acts.

What your saying is just like saying everytime you get into your car you should expect a dangerous environment and possible harmful acts to occur. Anytime someone rear ends you or t-bones you it shouldn't go to the law courts and the police should just come and give the guy a ticket.

The fact that this violence is happening inside a sport should have no bearing on him receiving legal punishment or not. This is one reason why I think UFC is a ****ing joke.
Actually the last time I got rear ended in an accident I didn't go to go to court at all. I had to pay a deductable and thats it.

I am not quite sure what your saying though. Are you suggesting that violence should not be part of hockey or any contact sports?

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Old
01-18-2010, 11:29 AM
  #96
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you guys who think elbows and such are 'ok cause they are in the rules' need to realize that the rules are made for accidental situations

much like someone mentioned getting T-boned on the road, you gotta go through insurance, police, etc.

but like t-boning on the road, NHL rules are also made for incidents that SHOULDNT happen

you always get an accidental elbow, accidental high stick, etc, its important to know that these arent things that are allowed, but they are there if they do happen

so this stupid defense that "elbowing is in rules, so it should be expected"
no this is straight up intention to injure, it goes beyond the rules because its like mcsorley and brashear, you cant say its ok because "high sticking is in the rules, its expected"

this goes beyond the rule book, if you go out to play and hurt, you shouldnt be on the ice

gtfo chris simon ver2.0

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Old
01-18-2010, 11:29 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by alanschu View Post
It does no such thing. I intentionally made zero comment on a supposed line because I don't feel qualified to state where one should be.
Fair enough but the way you worded it you didn't make it sound like that was your objection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanschu View Post
But hey, if you want to give people criminal charges for too many instigator penalties, have at it.
Obviously whoever is responsible for laying charges would decide which suspensions should get the law involved in. I never said my idea was perfect but at least it's something. In fact I'll point out what I think is the biggest problem with it: you leave the deciding factor (suspensions) up to the leagues.

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Old
01-18-2010, 11:33 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
What he did is a hockey play. It is defined by Elbowing in the rule book. Yes it was a horrendous and disgusting Elbow but it is still a hockey play
If that's true then there will be no discipline outside the game in which it occurred.

High sticking and spearing are also in the rulebook. Just think of all the stuff you could do if that's the only qualification for what a "hockey play" is.

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Old
01-18-2010, 11:43 AM
  #99
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Any updates on Tam's condition?

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01-18-2010, 11:53 AM
  #100
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Well if you're hosting an international event trying not to kill the opposing players might go a long ways toward good relations.
Start reading your posts before you hit 'Submit Reply'

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