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Old
01-18-2010, 01:03 PM
  #1
Gotta Catch Em Staal
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The Untouchables



We talk a lot on here about who is untouchable and who is not. According to Chip, the team has it's own list of untouchables.

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/canes/...e-untouchables

Eric Staal
Cam Ward
Tim Gleason
Brandon Sutter
Tuomo Ruutu

Can't say I have a problem with that list, although I would definitely consider adding Joni Pitkanen.

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01-18-2010, 01:22 PM
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Good to see Ruutu on there.

Also, I'm assuming the other younger guys are pretty untouchable as well (assuming no unforeseen idiotic GMs come calling)

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01-18-2010, 01:23 PM
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imayagainknowanson
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Pitkanen for Dubinsky (e4).

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01-18-2010, 01:29 PM
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IMO prospects are always tradeable if you could still get a good young player under control back or you felt the deal would give you a prospect upgrade. I could see a rental paired with someone like Bowman to get a young player or a prospect upgrade in return. Clearly JR is willing to deal prospects for young guys that he believes are closer to contributing..i.e. Tlusty for Paradis

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01-18-2010, 01:32 PM
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Prettymuch the same list that Forslund stated on the post game show the other night.

That said, I would really prefer to see Joni on there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eerodynamic View Post
IMO prospects are always tradeable if you could still get a good young player under control back or you felt the deal would give you a prospect upgrade. I could see a rental paired with someone like Bowman to get a young player or a prospect upgrade in return. Clearly JR is willing to deal prospects for young guys that he believes are closer to contributing..i.e. Tlusty for Paradis
I would far more expect guys such as Jordan, Terry, Morneau, Lindstrom and Kennedy in that case, at least compared to guys such as Bowman.

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01-18-2010, 01:40 PM
  #6
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imo, if Rutherford has a chance to trade Joni Pitkanen for better #1 D, he will do it. Thinks for Phaneuf, Streit, Suter, i mean true #1 not a guys like Commodore, Coburn or Wideman.... no one is available but personally i will trade Joni for any of them.

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01-18-2010, 01:43 PM
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True, but the same would go for Gleason. Or if someone were to offer a top 3 pick in this draft for Ruutu or Sutter. The only two true untouchables are Staal and Ward who are the faces of the franchise.

It just confuses me that Joni wasn't listed as untouchable and I REALLY hope that doesn't mean that JR is souring on him. As bad as our defense has been this season Joni is one of the 3 defensemen that have been living up to their contracts, with the other two being Gleason and Alberts since Alberts is only making 800K this year. Corvo and Carson haven't played long enough this season to judge either fairly but it wouldn't be negative in either ones case.

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01-18-2010, 02:04 PM
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He is likely open to trading Joni as a preemptive strike to next offseason when Joni becomes a UFA. If JR is led to believe that Joni wants a decent raise on his 4.5 million(which he likely isnt worth in this economic condition...see last offseason UFA dmen) then JR might lean towards dealing him, especially if you believe the cup contending window for the Canes doesnt reopen until 11/12. The bottomline is that if you arent definitely extending joni following next season then he cant be on the untradeable list.

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01-18-2010, 02:15 PM
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Definitely a valid point. I just can't see a return on Joni that would be worth trading him away. Most contending teams don't have the high end prospect depth that would justify a trade there outside of maybe LA, Colorado and Buffalo. Obviously Doughty or Johnson wouldn't be on the market, and personally I feel neither Hickey or Voinov would be enough to justify the move. Same goes with Duchene in Colorado while Shattenkirk wouldn't be worth it IMO. Only one that could work is Buffalo, and while Myers isn't going anywhere I would think trading Ennis for Pitkanen would be of enough quality to be worth a trade there. The question would be if Buffalo would make the move.

We'll see though, I do get the feeling he will be here long term and on a good deal. This so far has been the only place in the NHL where he has seemed happy, and I have to think having Ruutu and Jussi helps that.

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01-18-2010, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caniacho View Post
Pitkanen for Dubinsky (e4).
That's not happening.

In a separate transaction, Rutherford could have Rozsival. 2 years remaining on the contract. $4 million and $3 million salaries. It won't cost Carolina much.

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01-18-2010, 02:22 PM
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01-18-2010, 02:32 PM
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This is all impossible to figure out anyways since JR never goes after top tier UFAs so the team always has to make upgrades via trades....instead of something like dealing Joni to get a young guy like Niskanen and the earmarking the extra money to sign some UFA like Hamhuis. It would be nice to take 2 steps forward on occasion rather than just sidestepping and inching forward via a roster player for roster player trade.

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01-18-2010, 02:37 PM
  #13
imayagainknowanson
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Haha, Niskanen. Big ****in no. We already have a Bryan Rodney.

Quote:
The only two true untouchables are Staal and Ward who are the faces of the franchise.
Pretty much this. Honestly, i will add Brandon Sutter. Yeah, he's still kid with 70 games in the best league in the world but we talkin' for one of the few successful Carolina picks in history.

He's Carolina future #2 center, smart kid with Selke potential, leader, who i believe will wear "A" very soon (max two or three year).

Ward, Sutter and Staal are the true core. This players will lead Carolina to second Stanley Cup.

I want Hedi.. i mean Gleason to plays rest of his career here. I absolutely love #6. Ok, i add Timmah to core. Sorry, Ruutu, i'm not a fan.

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01-18-2010, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caniacho View Post
Haha, Niskanen. Big ****in no. We already have a Bryan Rodney
As a new years resolution i was going to try to be nicer on these boards, but this comment is so freaking atricious. It would be absolute ignorance to put those 2 guys anywhere near the same class. There isnt one thing hockey related that Rodney does better than Niskanen. Not to mention that Niskanen is only 24 and far ahead where guys like Gleason were at 24. Sure he has struggled a bit since his rookie season but can you really blame the guy....he opens a career playing with Zubov and now the guy plays on a team that spent 7 million on their entire defense and plays 3 and 4 guys nigthly on the back end who are 26 or younger.

I guess i sound like a Niskanen family member, but that comment was an absolute joke

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01-18-2010, 03:22 PM
  #15
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I would also consider Pitkanen untouchable, but if he wants an absurd raise or somebody overpays, JR will probably pull the trigger.

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01-18-2010, 03:29 PM
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Maybe Pitkanen is practically speaking untouchable, but JR is sending a message / playing head games?

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01-18-2010, 03:35 PM
  #17
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There was a rumor that teams were calling for Pitkanen and were told that Pitkanen was untouchable. Wonder if Chip forgot to add him or if JR is changing his mind. I don't see why JR would want to trade him. We seriously don't have anyone close to what Joni can do. If Mo was smart, he would pair him with Gleason, and NOT Gritty Veteran AWard. Let Joni actually do what he does best, instead of trying to play defense for two.

As for the rest of the list, I agree.


ETA: Now that I finally read Chips blog, he first asked who your 5 'untouchables' are. Most of the comments had everyone who we were thinking. So wonder if Chip just pulled from the comments and didn't really even ask JR.

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01-18-2010, 03:57 PM
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I will bet Joni is being shopped... No way he's untouchable... It will take a ton to get him, but if that offer comes, I bet he's gone

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01-18-2010, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caniac247 View Post
There was a rumor that teams were calling for Pitkanen and were told that Pitkanen was untouchable. Wonder if Chip forgot to add him or if JR is changing his mind. I don't see why JR would want to trade him. We seriously don't have anyone close to what Joni can do. If Mo was smart, he would pair him with Gleason, and NOT Gritty Veteran AWard. Let Joni actually do what he does best, instead of trying to play defense for two.

As for the rest of the list, I agree.


ETA: Now that I finally read Chips blog, he first asked who your 5 'untouchables' are. Most of the comments had everyone who we were thinking. So wonder if Chip just pulled from the comments and didn't really even ask JR.
This. "Said to be" gives me as much confidence as "word has it."

But it wouldn't surprise me if Rutherford doesn't view Pitkanen as an untouchable as Rutherford has pretty much proven he has no idea what he's doing. Babchuk and Seidenberg gone, Corvo UFA, etc. Let's completely destroy the defense in just over a year.

Oh well. We've got Rodney and Borer to fill in spots!

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01-18-2010, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
I will bet Joni is being shopped... No way he's untouchable... It will take a ton to get him, but if that offer comes, I bet he's gone
Rumours months ago says Columbus want Pitkanen (if i remember correct).

Commodore struggled this season... so it's time to do it, JR. Commodore for Pitkanen.

rofl

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01-18-2010, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caniacho View Post
Rumours months ago says Columbus want Pitkanen (if i remember correct).

Commodore struggled this season... so it's time to do it, JR. Commodore for Pitkanen.

rofl
Deal. Commodore is Gritty Veteran, Pitkanen is Soft Lazy Euro. Pull the trigger, JR.

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01-18-2010, 04:14 PM
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LOL, make it happen

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01-19-2010, 12:42 PM
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Pitkanen want return a edmonton.


Last edited by Citizen Cane: 01-20-2010 at 12:10 PM.
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Old
01-19-2010, 08:23 PM
  #24
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i have no problem with trading pitts, but it doesnt make sense unless there is an at least close to top pairing guy coming back. packaging something with him for phanuef if he were actually available would be perfect to me. something like pitts and whitney plus whatever else it took would make sense both ways to me. they get a top 4 dman back who is cheaper, saving space for next off season, plus the kind of guy they need in whitney to help make a run - but also saves them cash in the offseason.

i dont for a second think dion is available, but it does figure that they have too much tied up in their d. im sure they'll work it out without moving this guy, but if we were to move pitts - id have no problem with it being something like this.

for those who think he belongs as a an untouchable, i just dont see it at all. being the only mobile defenseman on a bad team doesnt make him untouchable anymore than whitney being a top scorer on a team that cant shoot straight (like much of his career) makes him a desperately needed part of our core.

the fact these guys are so important to us is a sign of our lack of depth, and character. joni has little gumption or leadership, on a team like detroit he's be a second pairing guy - which is where he belongs because he doesnt have the mental make-up or style of play to be our stud. joni is best suited on a team where he can blend in, and step up and make the occasional big play from time to time without the expectations of doing it every night. his expectations here are unfair. as are gleasons, but i would much rather move pitts over gleason.

nyi would never give him up, but we need a streit/markov type. fowler wouldnt be the answer either. streit doesnt make that much more than joni.

we could use liles, imo. he needs a change of scenery something awful. he doesnt have the offense to be a stud either, but he makes great plays out of his zone, can skate it out himself in a jam, and rarely has trouble evading a forechecker. he wouldnt be a pp leader, he doesnt have a great shot - but he would be a good part of a core to build around. gleason/pitts/liles with alberts/carson on the last pairing would be a good start. hamhuis for the fourth guy?

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01-19-2010, 08:51 PM
  #25
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we could use liles, imo. he needs a change of scenery something awful. he doesnt have the offense to be a stud either, but he makes great plays out of his zone, can skate it out himself in a jam, and rarely has trouble evading a forechecker. he wouldnt be a pp leader, he doesnt have a great shot - but he would be a good part of a core to build around. gleason/pitts/liles with alberts/carson on the last pairing would be a good start. hamhuis for the fourth guy?
Where do we sign? I could go for Mitchell or Seidenberg in that Hamhuis place instead, but either way that's a REAL defense for a change, not just a mishmash group of guys that worked last year and in 06, and failed in 07, 08 and this season.

Seriously, is Liles in the outs in Colorado that much? I'm sure being out there you would know a hell of a lot more then I would on this one. The only thing I know about Liles is that he was seemingly set to sign here until Colorado offered him that kind of money.

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