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Jordan Staal to New Jersey

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Old
01-19-2010, 05:06 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Whites Eye View Post
again, youre making yourself look foolish. your post is implying that it was Zajac and Parise who were causing the Devils to lose. that is simply not true. if Zajac and Parise had Malkin and Crosby on their team, im sure they would "perform on the biggest stage" as well


and Staal had 9 points in 24 playoff games and was a -5. you make it sound like he was leading the team in playoff scoring.

and yea, he really shut down guys like Ovechkin who had 14 points in ONE SERIES against him

relax.
My post doesn't imply anything. All I'm saying is that those two were part of a team that could not stop Eric Staal from pushing you out of the playoffs. He was a driving force the had you sitting watching Boston and Carolina. That same Eric Staal who could NOT do that against the Penguins with one of the reasons being that Jordan was out there against him. Jordan's points don't really matter to the convo because we were lucky to have two guys above him doing what Parise does.

You're telling me about how talented Parise and Zajac are and how Staal couldn't stop Ovechkin (Care to tell me who the hell can .... they ain't wearing a Devils' jersey I can assure you, DUH!). Do you remember anyone else from the Caps having a major effect on that series .... Semin (NOPE), Backstrom (little bit). Most of their damage not done by Ovechkin was done by pluggers like Fleischmann, Laich. Mike Green was a no show as well.

However, what I'm telling you is for the current makeup of the Penguins and the direct opposition of the Devils, IMO it would make no sense to give the Devils what they have tried to get in Holik and Zubrus only to have it shoved against the Pens year in and year out despite who the Devils would give up.

This whole conversation has NOTHING to do with how talented or good Parise or Zajac is, at least for Penguins' fans.

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01-19-2010, 05:10 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Whites Eye View Post
again, youre making yourself look foolish. your post is implying that it was Zajac and Parise who were causing the Devils to lose. that is simply not true. if Zajac and Parise had Malkin and Crosby on their team, im sure they would "perform on the biggest stage" as well


and Staal had 9 points in 24 playoff games and was a -5. you make it sound like he was leading the team in playoff scoring.

and yea, he really shut down guys like Ovechkin who had 14 points in ONE SERIES against him

relax.
actually if Zajac and Parise had Staal on their team,they would win the series against the Canes easily,imo...

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01-19-2010, 10:28 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
You are running with a quote and missing entirely the point most Pens' fans (and others) have been making in this thread. Do not get your panties in a bunch about who is worth more than who, there are a lot of Staal sucks/is a God threads to fill your time up if you want to go there. The point is that Staal would be an absolute perfect fit for New Jersey and the sytem they love to play, and the return is irrelevant. Thinking of Staal in that system multiple times every year for the next decade (not to mention the playoffs) hounding Crosby (not to mention potting goals as well) gives me nightmares. Staal is a Jaques Lemaires wet dream. I do think if he ever becomes a UFA NJ would be among the first (of many) teams in line bidding for his services. The other team I think that would gun hard for him if the Pens can not keep him is Montreal. But that would only be if Staal forced the issue. Shero would be a moron to gift wrap him to one of the few teams on whom he could be a first line center, fit perfectly, and lead them to cups. Just is not going to happen. I could care less about the values of the players going or coming you just do not do that.
Don't forget Minnesota...

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01-29-2010, 01:52 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BatonRougePen
Would you like to inform me what Parise and Zajac have done past the last two years? I know what Jordan has done and to go back further than that would also be advantage Jordan because of his impressive rookie season.

I'm willing to bet I'm not the only Pen fan who wouldn't make this deal ....
Good to see ignorance running rampant on this board.

You wouldn't trade Jordan Staal for Parise and Zajac? Put the bong down and never watch hockey again. Ever. Then again I'm not surprised...Someone in Louisiana trying to chat puck. Comedy at it's finest..

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01-29-2010, 02:20 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by BrodeursCups View Post
Good to see ignorance running rampant on this board.

You wouldn't trade Jordan Staal for Parise and Zajac? Put the bong down and never watch hockey again. Ever. Then again I'm not surprised...Someone in Louisiana trying to chat puck. Comedy at it's finest..
He was merely jesting, lol. At least, that's all I can figure.

For the record, that would be a helluva deal for the Pens.

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01-29-2010, 07:59 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by RottenScoundrel View Post
He was merely jesting, lol. At least, that's all I can figure.

For the record, that would be a helluva deal for the Pens.
No, he was serious...using ideals like we won with him, you lost without him and stuff like that. In reality, if the Pens had Parise (we'll leave Zajac and Staal out of the topic, similar players, dont want to get in a pissing match) alongside Crosby? That screams something like 4 cups in 5 years to me.

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01-29-2010, 08:11 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Erik Stall View Post
More than NJ fans are willing to give up.

I'd imagine Josefson/Bergfors/Tedenby and a 1st, or something similar.
That may be a deal I would consider. Zajac - Staal - Cormier - Henrique is pretty darn good future up the middle. Just turn the first into a second or third rounder and you have a deal.


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01-29-2010, 08:19 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post
That may be a deal I would consider. Zajac - Staal - Cormier - Henrique is pretty darn good future up the middle. Just turn the first into a second or third rounder and you have a deal.
no way does a 2nd plus Bergfors/Tedenby/Josefson get you Staal.

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01-29-2010, 08:36 AM
  #84
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overrated

I think Jordan Staal is way overrated ! 34 pts this year only 13 goals. And the thing is he has the most empty net points then any other player in the league by fair ! I know he is a good pk guy but for 4 mil? Pens should really trade him for a winger tho! to play with Crosby.

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01-29-2010, 08:41 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Alas, context.

That which is missing in 99% of trade proposals on this board, where we all too often dumb down hypotheticas to "Player A is better than Player B".
No kidding.

Pittsburgh has their model for success, and it is "centered" primarily on their strength down the middle:

Crosby plus anybody on the wings equals an Art Ross winner and perennial candidate.

Malkin plus anybody on the wings equals an Art Ross winner and perennial candidate.

Staal to prevent/limit the other team's top lines from doing what Crosby and Malkin do to them.

At age 19, 20, and 21 they were Stanley Cup finalists.

At age 20, 21, and 22 they were Stanley Cup Champions.

Add a top-notch goaltender.

Add a high-end defenceman to transition to offence and QB the PP.

There's the nucleus of your team. The rest of the roster does not cost as much as this five-man nucleus.

When you're asking for Jordan Staal in a trade, you're asking the Pens to dismantle
the blue-print that gets them to the Stanley Cup finals. It's not gonna happen.

If you have some wingers and defensive d-men that you're willing to give up for non-1st round picks, I'm sure Shero is all ears. But you are likely a team outside the playoffs at the trade deadline, rather than a team like the Devils.

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01-29-2010, 08:53 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by nshockey View Post
I think Jordan Staal is way overrated ! 34 pts this year only 13 goals. And the thing is he has the most empty net points then any other player in the league by fair ! I know he is a good pk guy but for 4 mil? Pens should really trade him for a winger tho! to play with Crosby.

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01-29-2010, 09:25 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrodeursCups View Post
Good to see ignorance running rampant on this board.

You wouldn't trade Jordan Staal for Parise and Zajac? Put the bong down and never watch hockey again. Ever. Then again I'm not surprised...Someone in Louisiana trying to chat puck. Comedy at it's finest..
First off, because I live in Louisiana NOW has nothing to do with my opinion .... are you like "all" New Jersey guys .... greasy hair, etc. (Stereotypes are stupid so cool it genius!)

Second, if you had read my posts after that one Einstein, you would have seen WHY I made that statement. I would not trade Staal to New Jersey for anyone (short of a 25 year old Brodeur) at this point. A team that has lacked a powerful shutdown center (yes, I remember Madden and I also remember Jordan's brother not having much of an issue with him last year.) and tried to get that with Zubrus and Holik recently would get a young and up-and-coming guy to further mold into the very thing that could hurt the Penguins aspirations for years to come. I would rather not HAND that over to New Jersey despite the return, especially when the Pens can get what they need elsewhere.

Ignorance .... BC, you might not want to use that word .... apparently, reading comprehension and stereotyping are issues. Just saying.

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01-29-2010, 09:29 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugs by Resch View Post
No, he was serious...using ideals like we won with him, you lost without him and stuff like that. In reality, if the Pens had Parise (we'll leave Zajac and Staal out of the topic, similar players, dont want to get in a pissing match) alongside Crosby? That screams something like 4 cups in 5 years to me.

Just like Hossa next to Crosby won that .... wait? I don't have any issues with Parise, but to me and I would think most Pens fans who have really watched this team the last two years, without Staal, we don't make it to those Finals. I don't think we make WITH Parise, Zajac, or whoever else this mythical trade would bring. In each playoff season, an opponent has been able to close off one line. Advantage .... Pens still being able to throw an extra big time center at the opposition.

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01-29-2010, 09:49 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by BatonRougePen View Post
Just like Hossa next to Crosby won that .... wait?
So Jordan Staal wasn't with the Pens in 08? He, the shutdown center of the -10 in 49 SCP games?

Look, he's an excellent player and, as mentioned before, in the *context* of the Penguins blueprint an important cog. But to suggest that the Pens would worsen their Cup hopes by dealing him for Parise and Zajac just sounds foolish.

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01-29-2010, 10:13 AM
  #90
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Staal in no way is worth Parise straight up comeon guys. Also I am willing to bet that if Parise was on Crosby's wing that their numbers would be insane (Crosby 50g 90a, Parise 55g 60a). Zajac and Staal would be a wash to me, maybe throw in a late pick with Zajac just because Staal has so much experience and that is very valuable.

Some fans here are making it sound like Staal outplayed Crosby and Malkin last year, not true. I am a big Staal fan and would love him on the devils, as he would make our team a true contender at the moment in my eyes. Zajac, Staal, Zubrus, Nieds down the middle would be sweet ( the size and defensive awareness of that group would be amazing). However these two teams that are at #1 and #2 in the atlantic division, so that means they WOULD NOT BE TRADE PARTNERS. It is as simple as that.


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01-29-2010, 10:18 AM
  #91
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again i repeat: Alex Ovechkin had 14 pts in 7 games against Pittsburgh in the playoffs. whoever thinks Jordan staal shut him down is on drugs


Jordan Staal had 9 points in 24 playoff games and was a -5


yes, he was VITAL!!!!!!

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01-29-2010, 10:26 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GameSeven View Post
So Jordan Staal wasn't with the Pens in 08? He, the shutdown center of the -10 in 49 SCP games?

Look, he's an excellent player and, as mentioned before, in the *context* of the Penguins blueprint an important cog. But to suggest that the Pens would worsen their Cup hopes by dealing him for Parise and Zajac just sounds foolish.
Good grief, are you expecting a checker to OUTSCORE an opposing top line?

Good luck with that.

I'm happy if they can reduce them from point-per-game damage to 60-75% of that.

In those 49 games Staal has 19 points, so a minus 10 suggests that he accomplished what he was supposed to do.

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01-29-2010, 10:27 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by ADD-devil950003 View Post
Staal in no way is worth Parise straight up comeon guys. Also I am willing to bet that if Parise was on Crosby's wing that their numbers would be insane (Crosby 50g 90a, Parise 55g 60a). Zajac and Staal would be a wash to me, maybe throw in a late pick with Zajac just because Staal has so much experience and that is very valuable.

Some fans here are making it sound like Staal outplayed Crosby and Malkin last year, not true. I am a big Staal fan and would love him on the devils, as he would make our team a true contender at the moment in my eyes. Zajac, Staal, Zubrus, Nieds down the middle would be sweet ( the size and defensive awareness of that group would be amazing). However these two teams that are at #1 and #2 in the atlantic division, so that means they WOULD NOT BE TRADE PARTNERS. It is as simple as that.
It's only one guy arguing Parise isn't worth Staal. If you offered all the other Pens fans Staal for Parise (OV is the only winger I'd take over Zach) they'd rip your arm off.

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01-29-2010, 10:32 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projexns View Post
Good grief, are you expecting a checker to OUTSCORE an opposing top line?

Good luck with that.

I'm happy if they can reduce them from point-per-game damage to 60-75% of that.

In those 49 games Staal has 19 points, so a minus 10 suggests that he accomplished what he was supposed to do.



like i said, Ovechkin had 14 points in 7 games against Pittsburgh, or 2 points per game. you're happy with that?

i realize you guys won the cup so its a moot point now, but come on

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01-29-2010, 10:41 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by projexns View Post
Good grief, are you expecting a checker to OUTSCORE an opposing top line?

Good luck with that.

I'm happy if they can reduce them from point-per-game damage to 60-75% of that.

In those 49 games Staal has 19 points, so a minus 10 suggests that he accomplished what he was supposed to do.
John Madden: +3 in 112 SCP games

But that's not the point, the premise that some of us are countering is that someone wouldn't take the Devils' Z's for Staal out of fear that it makes them worse.

Like other Devil's fans here, I respect J. Staal and what he brings, which is necessary on any contending team. But it's vastly underrating the Devil players from this mythical proposal to take the stance mentioned above.

In any case, for reasons specified multiple times, this thread should be a non-starter so I'll bow out now.

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01-29-2010, 11:22 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Colin Whites Eye View Post
like i said, Ovechkin had 14 points in 7 games against Pittsburgh, or 2 points per game. you're happy with that?

i realize you guys won the cup so its a moot point now, but come on
Ovechkin scored 6 of his points when Pittsburgh was home (meaning they had the last change and could get the Staal v. AO matchup). Ovechkin scored 1 goal in Pittsburgh that series, and Boudreau was trying like hell to get him away from Staal.

Then look at what he did against Carter and his brother.

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01-29-2010, 11:34 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Colin Whites Eye View Post
like i said, Ovechkin had 14 points in 7 games against Pittsburgh, or 2 points per game. you're happy with that?

i realize you guys won the cup so its a moot point now, but come on
A very impressive offensive outburst by Ovechkin. You would think he blew Staal out of the water.

Staal was a minus 3 in the series.

More to the point, he was minus 3 in three home games, where Pittsburgh gets the last line change and the matchups that they want, presumably (but not always) the Staal line versus the Ovechkin line.

Staalís plus/minus was even in Washington, where the Caps had the last line change and could get whatever matchup they wanted, presumably the Ovechkin line avoiding the Staal line as much as possible (but not always Ė unfortunately the game and the games within the game canít always be explained by the citing of a stat.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by GameSeven View Post
John Madden: +3 in 112 SCP games
Yes, and out of nine playoff years if we take out Madden's "career year" when the Devils won the Cup in 2002-03 and he was a plus 10, that would make him a minus 7 for the other eight years and 88 playoff games. Which is still damn good for a guy who's main assignment is to limit the damage of the other team's top line (whenever they can get the matchup.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GameSeven View Post

But that's not the point, the premise that some of us are countering is that someone wouldn't take the Devils' Z's for Staal out of fear that it makes them worse.

Like other Devil's fans here, I respect J. Staal and what he brings, which is necessary on any contending team. But it's vastly underrating the Devil players from this mythical proposal to take the stance mentioned above.

In any case, for reasons specified multiple times, this thread should be a non-starter so I'll bow out now.
There's really no need to zero in on the most ridiculous post in a thread that no one else agrees with.

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01-29-2010, 11:57 AM
  #98
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A very impressive offensive outburst by Ovechkin. You would think he blew Staal out of the water.

Staal was a minus 3 in the series.

More to the point, he was minus 3 in three home games, where Pittsburgh gets the last line change and the matchups that they want, presumably (but not always) the Staal line versus the Ovechkin line.

Staal’s plus/minus was even in Washington, where the Caps had the last line change and could get whatever matchup they wanted, presumably the Ovechkin line avoiding the Staal line as much as possible (but not always – unfortunately the game and the games within the game can’t always be explained by the citing of a stat.)

Not to quote myself, but think about what you would try to do if you're an opposition coach looking at Crosby-Malkin-Staal down the middle.

If I'm Washington, I might not want so easily to give Pittsburgh it's Ovechkin line/Staal line matchup. Then I've got a Crosby-line and a Malkin-line against the rest of my line-up. Maybe I think, to heck with it, I'll match up Ovechkin/Backstrom versus Crosby/Whoever, and think that I can outscore them.

Then, let my 3rd-line have a low scoring battle with the Staal line. If it breaks even, I'm still ahead with Ovechkin/Backstrom outscoring Crosby/Whoever.

But there's that pesky additional line to deal with. Matching up with Malkin after Ovechkin/Backstrom are off the table. You stand to get killed.

Maybe you take Semin and have him anchor another line, and hope that you can break even versus the Malkin line.

It's like a chess board where the Pens have three weapons, two offensive and one defensive, and you only have two weapons in response. The Pens aren't going to subtract one of those pieces, but rather an opposing team is going to have to come up with three to counter.

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01-29-2010, 12:03 PM
  #99
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Jordan Staal ?


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01-29-2010, 04:55 PM
  #100
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I cannot understand why "hockey minds" cannot understand what I'm saying. To me, Parise, Zajac, etc. have NOTHING to do with this conversation, partially because NEWJERSEY WOULD NEVER OFFER THOSE TWO FOR JUST JORDAN STAAL.

Yet, some think I'm idiotic for not agreeing with something that will never happen?

My point is this .... the very reasons why Pittsburgh made the finals in 2008 and WON the finals in 2009 was the fact that every team they faced could match one or maybe two centers, but NONE could match three. Even if New Jersey was dumb enough to offer this, you turn Pittsburgh into a TWO line team, which in my opinion, Detroit and Philadelphia could have beaten in 2008 and Detroit, Philadelphia, and maybe Washington could have beaten last year.

People continue to focus on the Washington series as a reason why I'm out of my mind ..... didn't Ovechkin TORCH everyone in their respective series? So, why just bring up Staal? The fact is Ovechkin was able to BEAT the other opponents, but not the Penguins. You may not want to admit this, but the fact that the Pens could roll three lines like that and continue the pressure on teams like the playoffs showed last year is the EXACT reason I wouldn't trade Staal to any Eastern Conference team, much less to friggin' New Jersey.

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