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Old
01-19-2010, 05:54 PM
  #76
raab
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Tell that to Colorado. Or Chicago. If you want vets then you get value vets, like Betts, etc... You dont go and blow five million+ on a player that hasnt even played in the league for years when you are in the middle of a rebuild. Talent is something that you either have or dont have. Talent does not breed talent.
The same Chicago who signed Hossa & Madden this year, and had Havlat to teach Kane and Toews the last couple years? I'm sure those Colorado kids didn't learn anything from Sakic or Smyth last year not to mention they still have Milan Hejduk there. Did I say anything about it being a 5M+ deal, it would clearly have to be a reasonable deal for the Oiler's to even look at it and I'm not sure where the cap space would come from but if the Oiler's do plan on signing him they must have a way to create some.

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01-19-2010, 05:56 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
The same Chicago who signed Hossa & Madden this year, and had Havlat to teach Kane and Toews the last couple years? I'm sure those Colorado kids didn't learn anything from Sakic or Smyth last year not to mention they still have Milan Hejduk there. Did I say anything about it being a 5M+ deal, it would clearly have to be a reasonable deal for the Oiler's to even look at it and I'm not sure where the cap space would come from but if the Oiler's do plan on signing him they must have a way to create some.
What did Sakic teach Duchene and O'Reilley?

Don't we have Hemsky to teach the kids, I can't see Jagr being a much better option. Even Penner could be a good guy to show what happens when you don't take your conditioning and diet seriously.

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01-19-2010, 05:57 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
What did Sakic teach Duchene and O'Reilley?

Don't we have Hemsky to teach the kids, I can't see Jagr being a much better option. Even Penner could be a good guy to show what happens when you don't take your conditioning and diet seriously.
Who taught Statsny and Wolski? And yes I'm sure Hemsky could teach them but we need to add some size to our top 6, so if Jagr's willing to sign an acceptable deal why would you say no?

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01-19-2010, 05:57 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
I doesn't make sense on any level, other than your fantasy league. You still haven't addressed where the cap room comes from.
if you reread my post, yes i did.
if you want hard numbers, you can look them up. they've been thrown around these boards all year.
and it would make sense for the oilers to get rid of our trash, and once thats done, we have the cap room.

regardless, jagr said he wants to, i wana see it, so if it happens, I will enjoy it, if not, then no biggie, but they better be god damn rebuilding if it doesn't happen. and not the last 8 years of "its a semi rebuild, but playoff runs at the same time, trust us, we can compete by plugging holes".

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01-19-2010, 06:00 PM
  #80
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people forget we have been kicked in the teeth for whats looking like 4 years now. We have leadership issues that should be addressed ASAP. This year we lost some key players to injury thus the position we find ourselves in.

All is not lost we have a good stockpile of young drafted players that are knocking on the door we have some decent pieces in the lineup we have excellent coaching in place if the right moves are made the likely hood of a rebound year next year is not far fetched if one is able to look at things with a rational mind. We are going to be captainless soon and we could use someone with experiance at being a captain of a team and having success doing so. That is where I think Jagr comes in. He is not a typical leader but he is one whether people like to admit it or not. He could do wonders for the Kids we have coming and he has seen it all from playing on the best team to playing on the worst team his experience is undeniable.

He is not a floater as floaters do not put up the points that he has put up. Floaters do not win the cups he has won. Floaters do not have the respect of ex teammates and ex coaches he has got. We should be Thankful if Jagr ever decided to put on the Oil drop and play for our team.

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01-19-2010, 06:02 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by surshot View Post
people forget we have been kicked in the teeth for whats looking like 4 years now. We have leadership issues that should be addressed ASAP. This year we lost some key players to injury thus the position we find ourselves in.

All is not lost we have a good stockpile of young drafted players that are knocking on the door we have some decent pieces in the lineup we have excellent coaching in place if the right moves are made the likely hood of a rebound year next year is not far fetched if one is able to look at things with a rational mind. We are going to be captainless soon and we could use someone with experiance at being a captain of a team and having success doing so. That is where I think Jagr comes in. He is not a typical leader but he is one whether people like to admit it or not. He could do wonders for the Kids we have coming and he has seen it all from playing on the best team to playing on the worst team his experience is undeniable.

He is not a floater as floaters do not put up the points that he has put up. Floaters do not win the cups he has won. Floaters do not have the respect of ex teammates and ex coaches he has got. We should be Thankful if Jagr ever decided to put on the Oil drop and play for our team.
+1, well said.

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01-19-2010, 06:03 PM
  #82
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In the past, I've wanted Jagr here.... but now I'm not so sure that a) Jagr would want to be here, or b) that I'd want him here.

Reasons:

a) If Jagr's off the cuff comment about liking to play with Hemsky is all we have to go on, we're really grasping at straws. He'd be here if he wanted to be.

and

b) Let's say we're actually trying a rebuild here. Would it not be better to get some role-playing vets in the offseason via UFA (ie. Betts as stated above) and go with youth / Hemsky / Penner on the scoring lines? We'd probably still finish low in the standings and get another high pick in the 2011 draft, BUT we'd at least get to enjoy watching the youth (hopefully) progress. Bringing in Jagr would, at best, force us back to mediocre and we'd be drafting back in the 7-11 range as well as being outside the playoffs.

Commit to the rebuild, or don't - either way this team has to choose and aggressively go after whichever they decide. (Personally I'm pro rebuild)


Last edited by rydlar: 01-19-2010 at 06:05 PM. Reason: typo
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Old
01-19-2010, 06:08 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by rydlar View Post
a) If Jagr's off the cuff comment about liking to play with Hemsky is all we have to go on, we're really grasping at straws. He'd be here if he wanted to be.
well he still has a contract in the KHL, i'm sure he's not a Radulov type guy.
and he also still keeps contact with Renney, who was asked about this a few months ago as well.
Maybe he doesn't want to play for a losing team, but Hemsky and Renney is still something we got for him then other NHL clubs don't. So if he does come back to the NHL, I hope it is with the Oilers, even if its for a short time, even during a rebuild, which I hope to god they take seriously this time, I think it would help the team in general.

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01-19-2010, 06:08 PM
  #84
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One thing I'll never understand about Jagr.

Oilers didn't want to give him the extra year to make it two years, so he goes to Russia. He was younger.

Fastforward years later and they might want an older Jagr?

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01-19-2010, 06:10 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Roamin View Post
well he still has a contract in the KHL, i'm sure he's not a Radulov type guy.
and he also still keeps contact with Renney, who was asked about this a few months ago as well.
Maybe he doesn't want to play for a losing team, but Hemsky and Renney is still something we got for him then other NHL clubs don't. So if he does come back to the NHL, I hope it is with the Oilers, even if its for a short time, even during a rebuild, which I hope to god they take seriously this time, I think it would help the team in general.

He made the Hemsky comment what seems (to me anyhow) like a loooong time ago... pre-KHL... I might be wrong though...

I understand the connection with Renney etc, and in the past (like I said) I did want him here... just now.. I vote for a proper rebuild, no more patching up a sinking ship.

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01-19-2010, 06:12 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by sync View Post
i'll believe when it happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
The only thing I expect from the Oilers in more managerial incompetence
the first two responses in this thread summarize my thoughts as well

i expect nothing but terrible decisions at this point... this group has shown over the past 4 years that its clearly one of the worst management groups in the entire league... it will take a long while, and many good decisions, before i think any other way

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01-19-2010, 06:12 PM
  #87
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Believe it when I see it, everything involved with the oilers over the last 4 years has been "over-promise, under-deliver.

As for Jagr, I'm ok with that signing if the contract is right(under 3.5 million, 1 year based contracts a la Selanne). Problem with this team is that it has far too much youth, and lacks quality veterens. Jagr if he can still play in the NHL could be a high quality vet that could provide some shelter for all the young players who aren't ready to face top line checking offensive roles, and provide actual support for Hemsky/Penner who only have raw young players, or incompetent vets to support them at this point.

Of course, he would only be a piece, this team needs some actual 3rd line grinders and experienced defensive players, and players who can play more physical than the purse swingers we have now while still remaining effective hockey players.

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01-19-2010, 06:21 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by surshot View Post
Stauffer floating the Jagr balloon for next year on Oilers lunch.
Shades of "What if Comrie comes back? I swear I'm just speculating here, not trying to gauge fan reaction for team management, I promise" from another radio personality not too long ago.

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01-19-2010, 06:24 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
Hello missing the playoffs for another 7 years.

Amazing how many people think "youth" is the answer to our woes
Hmm, yeah, our record is so good right now with all of these vets. It would be crazy to want to shake this thang up.

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01-19-2010, 06:25 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by HOF99 View Post
One thing I'll never understand about Jagr.

Oilers didn't want to give him the extra year to make it two years, so he goes to Russia. He was younger.

Fastforward years later and they might want an older Jagr?
I guess you do not remember at the time. A lot of people and teams were worried that he would bolt and go to Russia before the contract was over (since he had that big offer over there). Due to his age the team would be stuck with the cap even though they did not have him any longer.

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01-19-2010, 06:36 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
the first two responses in this thread summarize my thoughts as well

i expect nothing but terrible decisions at this point... this group has shown over the past 4 years that its clearly one of the worst management groups in the entire league... it will take a long while, and many good decisions, before i think any other way
I agree with all this, except it's a little different when it's a member of the national media saying it. If it was Lowe or Tambellini saying it, we would all be laughing and having another beer.

The fact it's not a member of the management saying it gives it a bit more clout with me...unless Katz gave him a bag of money and paid 100 people to watch the message boards to see how much the fanbase reacts to it...like the Comrie signing.

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01-19-2010, 06:42 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by rydlar View Post
He made the Hemsky comment what seems (to me anyhow) like a loooong time ago... pre-KHL... I might be wrong though...

I understand the connection with Renney etc, and in the past (like I said) I did want him here... just now.. I vote for a proper rebuild, no more patching up a sinking ship.
I think the Hemsky comment was around the time in feb-april09 when he was rumored none stop that he was coming to the Oilers for the 09-10 season. He still has a year left on his KHL contract and said in April 09 that he will not bolt on the contract, unless the oilers and his KHL club come to some sort of deal.

and for the Renney thing, here's the link from Nov6, 09.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/fanta...-oilers-radar/

(Renney) invested heavily in Jaromir Jagr and was rewarded for his faith. It is no surprise that Renney both stays in touch with No. 68 and is keenly interested in bringing him to the Oilers once the winger completes his second season with Omsk of the KHL and is able to exercise an out clause in his contract.

"Jags and I text back and forth. I talked to him about six weeks ago," Renney said. "He's on our radar. He has NHL years ahead of him. No question."

The Oilers, as you may remember, tried to land Jagr in the summer of 2008 before he ended up going the KHL route and even though he decided not to play with the Oilers, he spoke glowingly of the team's effort to acquire him and said at the time he wouldn't forget that should he come back to the NHL in the future. He's currently playing for Omsk Avangard, where he has scored 11 times in 19 games with 16 total points. He had 53 points in 55 GP last season

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01-19-2010, 06:50 PM
  #93
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Signing Jagr would be the clearest sign possible that the Oilers are not committed to a rebuild but to selling hope, tickets and merchandise.

Couching your desire for a "big name" player in terms of "he'll teach the young guys" is hogwash.

You don't need to go out and commit nearly 10 percent of the cap to go out and get veteran leadership.

You add those big pieces when the rebuild with a young core is in place and the Oilers are 3-5 years from that point.

For those mentioning Havlat, Hossa and others being brought in to be mentors, you might bear in mind that Havlat is 29 and Hossa 31, both in the prime of their careers while Jagr is about to turn 39 or old enough to be Eberle's Dad.

You know what happens when you sign a player over the age of 35 and he he gets injured, right?

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01-19-2010, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Signing Jagr would be the clearest sign possible that the Oilers are not committed to a rebuild but to selling hope, tickets and merchandise.

Couching your desire for a "big name" player in terms of "he'll teach the young guys" is hogwash.

You don't need to go out and commit nearly 10 percent of the cap to go out and get veteran leadership.

You add those big pieces when the rebuild with a young core is in place and the Oilers are 3-5 years from that point.

For those mentioning Havlat, Hossa and others being brought in to be mentors, you might bear in mind that Havlat is 29 and Hossa 31, both in the prime of their careers while Jagr is about to turn 39 or old enough to be Eberle's Dad.

You know what happens when you sign a player over the age of 35 and he he gets injured, right?
Think he'd sign a 4-year deal?!

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01-19-2010, 06:56 PM
  #95
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Think he'd sign a 4-year deal?!
I'm sure he would.

Do you think Lowebellini will get desperate enough to offer one?

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01-19-2010, 06:58 PM
  #96
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I'm sure he would.

Do you think Lowebellini will get desperate enough to offer one?
Desperation would play no part in it.... just sheer stupidity, which they have in spades.

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01-19-2010, 06:58 PM
  #97
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Bazinga. (50 vcash who gets the reference)


Not going to check 4 pages to see if I'm the first...but thats from Big Bang Theory.




As for the thread at hand...I really hope they blow the team up. To me, the untouchables are Lubo, Hemmer, Smid, Gags, Cogs, Brule, Penner. The rest of the old farts should be traded for picks and prospects. I want the youngest team in the league next year.

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01-19-2010, 07:04 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Roamin View Post
if you reread my post, yes i did.
if you want hard numbers, you can look them up. they've been thrown around these boards all year.
and it would make sense for the oilers to get rid of our trash, and once thats done, we have the cap room.


regardless, jagr said he wants to, i wana see it, so if it happens, I will enjoy it, if not, then no biggie, but they better be god damn rebuilding if it doesn't happen. and not the last 8 years of "its a semi rebuild, but playoff runs at the same time, trust us, we can compete by plugging holes".
Obviously you haven't looked it up, or are not paying attention.

The cap for this year is 56.8 mill. There is talk it could go down next year, but for purposes of discussion, let's assume it stays the same.
The Oilers have 46.8 committed in salary to 14 players right now. If we go by your assumption of giving 5 million to Jagr, that leaves 5 million left, to be distributed amoung 9 more players. Brule, Gagner and Cogliano will all be getting raises after their entry level contracts have run.

Again, I ask, where will you find the cap room?

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01-19-2010, 07:08 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
Obviously you haven't looked it up, or are not paying attention.

The cap for this year is 56.8 mill. There is talk it could go down next year, but for purposes of discussion, let's assume it stays the same.
The Oilers have 46.8 committed in salary to 14 players right now. If we go by your assumption of giving 5 million to Jagr, that leaves 5 million left, to be distributed amoung 9 more players. Brule, Gagner and Cogliano will all be getting raises after their entry level contracts have run.

Again, I ask, where will you find the cap room?
The Oilers won't sign Jagr to a 5M+ deal, if he signs it'll be for less and for 1 or 2 years. If not then management needs to be canned.

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01-19-2010, 07:11 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
The Oilers won't sign Jagr to a 5M+ deal, if he signs it'll be for less and for 1 or 2 years. If not then management needs to be canned.
How exactly do you know this?

No one in their right mind would have signed Khabibulin to a 4 year contract but someone did.

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