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Any chance the Oilers bury Horc in the minors?

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Old
01-20-2010, 09:55 AM
  #26
Beerfish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
What?

Because MacTavish thought highly of him, Horcoff is entitled? Again, Horcoff has said a half dozen times that he's not playing well. He's not throwing generic, "we need to be better's" around like Ethan Moreau to avoid that.

I see no reason to malign him as a person. It's petty.
LOL, this is Edmonton and Edmonton fans, we have 'maligned' guys who were twice the hockey player Horcoff is for less viable reasons. When people appear to get preferential treatment, get over paid and are way over valued for years that person will get some abuse. He has inexplicably avoided any heat whatsoever until just recently. Horcoff shouldn't be pitied because he is flat out lucky he has been sheltered for so long.

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Old
01-20-2010, 10:01 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
LOL, this is Edmonton and Edmonton fans, we have 'maligned' guys who were twice the hockey player Horcoff is for less viable reasons. When people appear to get preferential treatment, get over paid and are way over valued for years that person will get some abuse. He has inexplicably avoided any heat whatsoever until just recently. Horcoff shouldn't be pitied because he is flat out lucky he has been sheltered for so long.
Horcoff has AVOIDED heat? Are you serious?

The dude was getting slammed 10 months before his contract even kicked in. I should know, I did most of the defending.

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01-20-2010, 10:22 AM
  #28
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I wonder if we can ship him to the KHL and pay part of his salary since there is no NHL agreement with them?

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01-20-2010, 10:40 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Horcoff has AVOIDED heat? Are you serious?

The dude was getting slammed 10 months before his contract even kicked in. I should know, I did most of the defending.
How do you feel about it now?

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01-20-2010, 11:27 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
What?

Because MacTavish thought highly of him, Horcoff is entitled? Again, Horcoff has said a half dozen times that he's not playing well. He's not throwing generic, "we need to be better's" around like Ethan Moreau to avoid that.

I see no reason to malign him as a person. It's petty.

I think we can all agree he has a poor contract overall, made to look worse by his bad play this year. Even playing at his best wouldn't necessarily justify his contract. I think most would also agree this is not a typical season for Horcoff because of team injuries and himself playing through injury.

Still, to make up s**t about Horcoff having entitlement or is given shelter is piling it on a little. Is this the best his detractors can come up with? Why does/did Quinn and MacT give him first line ice time and play him lots, even with his injury? Lots of reasonable answers to this one but entitlement and shelter shouldn't in there.

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01-20-2010, 11:28 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
How do you feel about it now?
The contract?

It's very bad. If he can rebound to where he was last year, I won't mind.

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01-20-2010, 11:35 AM
  #32
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Not a chance of burying him in the minors. He'll play here for the duration or until he's traded, even if it means the 4th line. Too much precious cap money to throw away.

Wonder how Katz feels about his golden boy Lowe, now that Lowe's using Katz's hard earned money this way.

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01-20-2010, 11:38 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VincenzosOil View Post
I think we can all agree he has a poor contract overall, made to look worse by his bad play this year. Even playing at his best wouldn't necessarily justify his contract. I think most would also agree this is not a typical season for Horcoff because of team injuries and himself playing through injury.

Still, to make up s**t about Horcoff having entitlement or is given shelter is piling it on a little. Is this the best his detractors can come up with? Why does/did Quinn and MacT give him first line ice time and play him lots, even with his injury? Lots of reasonable answers to this one but entitlement and shelter shouldn't in there.
Please point out what I made up.

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01-20-2010, 11:43 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by VincenzosOil View Post
I think we can all agree he has a poor contract overall, made to look worse by his bad play this year. Even playing at his best wouldn't necessarily justify his contract. I think most would also agree this is not a typical season for Horcoff because of team injuries and himself playing through injury.

Still, to make up s**t about Horcoff having entitlement or is given shelter is piling it on a little. Is this the best his detractors can come up with? Why does/did Quinn and MacT give him first line ice time and play him lots, even with his injury? Lots of reasonable answers to this one but entitlement and shelter shouldn't in there.
Because they have no other option is the right answer.

Look at the centre depth on the other teams in the WC and you'll quickly determine one the Oilers major weaknesses.

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01-20-2010, 11:44 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
The contract?

It's very bad. If he can rebound to where he was last year, I won't mind.
It's interesting how many folks here figured that was a great contract and how they beat on those who felt other wise.

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01-20-2010, 11:45 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Horcoff has AVOIDED heat? Are you serious?

The dude was getting slammed 10 months before his contract even kicked in. I should know, I did most of the defending.
Slammed by the minority. There were a ton of fans still on the Horcoff love in. The coaches were NEVER were critical at all. The media were NEVER critical at all.

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Old
01-20-2010, 11:47 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
It's interesting how many folks here figured that was a great contract and how they beat on those who felt other wise.
I don't ever remember saying "great contract". If I recall, the term "500k overpay" was used a lot in our discussions. I just never had a problem with it.

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01-20-2010, 11:48 AM
  #38
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I think Horcoff will be okay next year; and I hate the way the guy plays hockey.

He won't return to his peak, and he won't be worth his price, but he'll be acceptable.

One thing I will always give the guy is that he has the right attitude (see 2007, it was all about getting back to the cup and he was out in public saying it like a leader should) and does work hard. It's usually whether he works smart that makes the difference.

Is he part of my ideal team? No. But ship him to the minors? Come on guys...

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Old
01-20-2010, 11:49 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Slammed by the minority. There were a ton of fans still on the Horcoff love in. The coaches were NEVER were critical at all. The media were NEVER critical at all.
The media wasn't?

We had "7 million dollar man" comments from the MSM half-way into the season. There was real discussion on the radio shows from the second his contract was announced .

The coaches weren't critical because the coaches didn't really have issues with his play. I don't blame MacT, I liked Horcoff a lot last year too.

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01-20-2010, 11:49 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
It's interesting how many folks here figured that was a great contract and how they beat on those who felt other wise.
1mil overpayment. Before the numbers were released I said anything more then Langkow is an overpayment, even at 4.5 it would still be a 1mil overpayment. Once again it was lowe trying to project future salary cap and skill.

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01-20-2010, 11:50 AM
  #41
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I think we can all agree he has a poor contract overall, made to look worse by his bad play this year. Even playing at his best wouldn't necessarily justify his contract. I think most would also agree this is not a typical season for Horcoff because of team injuries and himself playing through injury.

Still not one shred of evidence to support the Horcoff playing hurt theory. Even so it matters not at all as half the players in this league play hurt and a lot of players suffer from long term effects of bad injuries (one more reason that Lowes gift contract was absurd.)

Still, to make up s**t about Horcoff having entitlement or is given shelter is piling it on a little. Is this the best his detractors can come up with? Why does/did Quinn and MacT give him first line ice time and play him lots, even with his injury? Lots of reasonable answers to this one but entitlement and shelter shouldn't in there.

Anyone that can't see he has been given sheltered preferential treatment has blinders on. Look at the mountains of abuse Penner took last year, then look at what eh really did goals wise, plus minus wise, game winning goals wise having lousy ice time and playing on lower lines.

Then look at Horcoff, prime 1st line pp time the whole year. Playing with Hemsky almost exclusively the last 3 or 4 years. People seem to forget he had a bad year last year as well. this year is an atrocity but last year was very very bad as well. He took no heat from the coach or organization and almost none in the media.

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01-20-2010, 11:52 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
The contract?

It's very bad. If he can rebound to where he was last year, I won't mind.
Last year was a lousy year. This is what is so bizarre, he is so totally atrocious this year that last years crap year actually doesn't look too bad.

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Old
01-20-2010, 11:53 AM
  #43
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The media wasn't?

We had "7 million dollar man" comments from the MSM half-way into the season. There was real discussion on the radio shows from the second his contract was announced .

The coaches weren't critical because the coaches didn't really have issues with his play. I don't blame MacT, I liked Horcoff a lot last year too.
Our radio and print media treated him with kit gloves.

You were happy with last year? That explains a heck of a lot.

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Old
01-20-2010, 11:56 AM
  #44
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Last year was a lousy year. This is what is so bizarre, he is so totally atrocious this year that last years crap year actually doesn't look too bad.
It wasn't bad at all in my estimation and I was saying it at the time.

Horcoff drove results from the top-line with the biggest possible minutes. While people like me were ALWAYS fighting for Penner based on his +/- contributions and felt like Penner was being unfairly brought out, it was a general laziness that was at the crux of MacTavish's tirade.

Perhaps "lazy" is the next fictional issue to be brought to fore with Horcoff. I don't see it. I see a player who's struggling HARD on a team that's struggling with him. Struggling begets struggling.

As for the "playing injured" thing? Not a theory. He is playing with a beaten-up shoulder. They outright said in December he couldn't take as many faceoffs with his shoulder in the condition it was in. Horcoff said around Christmas that he should be able to start taking some more draws THIS month.

As someone who has watched maybe four periods of Oilers hockey in that span, I'm not in the know as to whether or not he is.

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01-20-2010, 11:56 AM
  #45
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Horcoff taking a lot less faceoffs is evidence of his shoulder problem, although that seems to change game to game.

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01-20-2010, 12:06 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Still not one shred of evidence to support the Horcoff playing hurt theory. Even so it matters not at all as half the players in this league play hurt and a lot of players suffer from long term effects of bad injuries (one more reason that Lowes gift contract was absurd.)
I'm not a Horcoff apologist but it mentioned in one of the Journal's articles yesterday that Horcoff took a cortizon shot about ten days ago for his shoulder and "Is just working through the injury" or something like that.

Oh found the link here near the bottom.

Why the hell don't they just let the guy get some rest to rehab it. The team might actually win some games while he's out and he gets a chance to recuperate. He's useless to the team the way he is.


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Old
01-20-2010, 12:18 PM
  #47
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We could send Horc to the minors and free up some cap space to sign some free agents and trade for some guys with big ticket contracts. The only problem is that no one wants to come here; and those that do don't want to stay.

Suck it up and hope Horc turns it around. It's moot to send him to the minors unless it's something personal.

If Ilya signs this summer here and we are over the cap let's re-open this discussion. Till then.

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Old
01-20-2010, 12:19 PM
  #48
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A lot of fiction in your posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Slammed by the minority. There were a ton of fans still on the Horcoff love in. The coaches were NEVER were critical at all. The media were NEVER critical at all.
Plain wrong. Probably a Majority of fans have dumped on Horcoff for a very long time, the MINORITY like Horcoff. He was dumped on the first year when he played on the 4th line, he was dumped on when he moved up to the 3rd and 2nd lines. I remember when the battle for top centre was between him and Marty Reasoner one season and MANY people thought Reasoner should have won the battle if not for being injured one year (the broken ankle slide into the end boards icing).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Still not one shred of evidence to support the Horcoff playing hurt theory. Even so it matters not at all as half the players in this league play hurt and a lot of players suffer from long term effects of bad injuries (one more reason that Lowes gift contract was absurd.)
Bob Stauffer played an interview with Horcoff yesterday where it was revealed that Yes, Horcoff is indeed playing hurt. He received a cortisone shot recently that helped improved the pain in his shoulder. A couple of months ago when Horcoff wasn't even taking faceoffs, it was due to the pain in the shoulder. This should not be rocket science here - when a team as terrible on faceoffs as the Oiler centres are, doesn't have Horcoff taking faceoffs, it should be evident that he's hurt.

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Old
01-20-2010, 12:19 PM
  #49
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The contract?

It's very bad. If he can rebound to where he was last year, I won't mind.
Last year? I think you mean the year before.

Regardless to answer the OP question there is no way that Horc will get burried in the minors anytime soon anyhow.

Besides why is everyone *****ing about Horcoff anyhow? He is helping us do exactly what this team needs to do this season.

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01-20-2010, 12:26 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
As long as we have next to no size or talent at the center position, Horcoff and his entitlement are safe.
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I am the Liquor

Please point out what I made up.
Liqour, you have no proof he is behaving with a sense of entitlement.

Just because he is friends with the owner (and is this even true?), gets top line minutes under the previous coach, has a contract that screams security does not mean he has earned his ice time out of a sense of entitlement. I think the first part of your top quote is bang on but if when and if we get talented centers to supplant Horcoff's ice time, he still has merit to be on this team with his play alone even if that means as a ridiculously overpaid 2nd/3rd liner.

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