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Any chance the Oilers bury Horc in the minors?

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Old
01-20-2010, 11:29 AM
  #51
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by CanmoreMike View Post
We could send Horc to the minors and free up some cap space to sign some free agents and trade for some guys with big ticket contracts. The only problem is that no one wants to come here; and those that do don't want to stay.

Suck it up and hope Horc turns it around. It's moot to send him to the minors unless it's something personal.

If Ilya signs this summer here and we are over the cap let's re-open this discussion. Till then.
Thing us you can go over the cap in the off-season, so if there was someone that you wanted to sign to replace Horcoff you could. But until that happens Horcoff will be on the big club. We don't need the free space at the moment, when we do then think about waiving Horcoff.

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01-20-2010, 11:34 AM
  #52
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[QUOTE=Master Lok;23305402]A lot of fiction in your posts.



Plain wrong. Probably a Majority of fans have dumped on Horcoff for a very long time, the MINORITY like Horcoff. He was dumped on the first year when he played on the 4th line, he was dumped on when he moved up to the 3rd and 2nd lines. I remember when the battle for top centre was between him and Marty Reasoner one season and MANY people thought Reasoner should have won the battle if not for being injured one year (the broken ankle slide into the end boards icing).

We will have to agree to disagree on this one I don't remember more than a few albeit very vocal people hammering on Horcoff before this year. The vast majority either downright supported him or were somewhat benevolent towards him. The media have had almost zero criticism of him and the team none unless you count the odd 'oh he has to play better.'

Bob Stauffer played an interview with Horcoff yesterday where it was revealed that Yes, Horcoff is indeed playing hurt. He received a cortisone shot recently that helped improved the pain in his shoulder. A couple of months ago when Horcoff wasn't even taking faceoffs, it was due to the pain in the shoulder. This should not be rocket science here - when a team as terrible on faceoffs as the Oiler centres are, doesn't have Horcoff taking faceoffs, it should be evident that he's hurt.

Then this is the 1st credible source, coming yesterday, just not taking faceoffs is not a medical report. In any case if people want to forgive him for playing bad due to an injury we better get out a long list of present and past players that were lambasted for poor play after having major injuries.

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01-20-2010, 11:38 AM
  #53
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Put him on Waivers. The only way to find out if there actually is another GM out there that is dumber than dumb

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01-20-2010, 11:47 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by VincenzosOil View Post
Liqour, you have no proof he is behaving with a sense of entitlement.

Just because he is friends with the owner (and is this even true?), gets top line minutes under the previous coach, has a contract that screams security does not mean he has earned his ice time out of a sense of entitlement. I think the first part of your top quote is bang on but if when and if we get talented centers to supplant Horcoff's ice time, he still has merit to be on this team with his play alone even if that means as a ridiculously overpaid 2nd/3rd liner.
I gave some very good examples for how this could very well be the case. Where are yours to show it isnt?

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01-20-2010, 11:48 AM
  #55
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[QUOTE=Beerfish;23305628]
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
A lot of fiction in your posts.



Plain wrong. Probably a Majority of fans have dumped on Horcoff for a very long time, the MINORITY like Horcoff. He was dumped on the first year when he played on the 4th line, he was dumped on when he moved up to the 3rd and 2nd lines. I remember when the battle for top centre was between him and Marty Reasoner one season and MANY people thought Reasoner should have won the battle if not for being injured one year (the broken ankle slide into the end boards icing).

We will have to agree to disagree on this one I don't remember more than a few albeit very vocal people hammering on Horcoff before this year. The vast majority either downright supported him or were somewhat benevolent towards him. The media have had almost zero criticism of him and the team none unless you count the odd 'oh he has to play better.'

Bob Stauffer played an interview with Horcoff yesterday where it was revealed that Yes, Horcoff is indeed playing hurt. He received a cortisone shot recently that helped improved the pain in his shoulder. A couple of months ago when Horcoff wasn't even taking faceoffs, it was due to the pain in the shoulder. This should not be rocket science here - when a team as terrible on faceoffs as the Oiler centres are, doesn't have Horcoff taking faceoffs, it should be evident that he's hurt.

Then this is the 1st credible source, coming yesterday, just not taking faceoffs is not a medical report. In any case if people want to forgive him for playing bad due to an injury we better get out a long list of present and past players that were lambasted for poor play after having major injuries.
It's common sense if a guy that usually take 50% of the teams faceoffs all of sudden stops taking them. Gregor and others on his show have mentioned for a couple months now that Horcoff's shoulder was bothering him and that taking faceoffs hurt.

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01-20-2010, 11:49 AM
  #56
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Sheesh, as if it's any wonder why some NHL players try to get as far away as possible from playing in Canada. It's not just Edmonton that savages their own, but this endless, passionate hate-on by some folks for Horcoff is vying for the "Obsession of the Year" title.

Unless there's somebody who is in the dressing room, on the bench, in the closed-door meetings, living with Horc and knowing him way beyond a couple of edited quotes in the papers/on the internet - Any comments about his alleged "Sense of Entitlement" is anecdotal speculation at best.

We can observe that he 'appears' to a very vocal portion of the fanbase - that he is falling far far short of fulfilling expectations suggested by the value of his current contract. We can observe that he is, albeit not very successfully, trying to work his way out of this slump. (which is the best evidence that he's not feeling very entitled).

the fact that NO OTHER SINGLE PLAYER has been able to step up and grab this team by the balls only serves to brighten the spotlight on Horcoff.

To me, this is the biggest failure of the team as a whole. There's a diamond-encrusted opportunity for someone to say "This is my team now". It's not happening. Penner, btw, isn't that someone. Good as he has been for the team, he's better if he can be the beast lurking just behind the front lines.

Horcoff won't be buried in the minors, or bought out. The current administration has shown over and over again that they are unwilling to admit and rectify a mistake. Just like they most likely won't be asking or pressuring Khabbi to please retire now, so that another mistake can be rectified.

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01-20-2010, 11:52 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
It's common sense if a guy that usually take 50% of the teams faceoffs all of sudden stops taking them. Gregor and others on his show have mentioned for a couple months now that Horcoff's shoulder was bothering him and that taking faceoffs hurt.
If that is the case then why in the world is he playing and not recuperating/rehabbing his shoulder?

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01-20-2010, 12:04 PM
  #58
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[QUOTE=Beerfish;23305628]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
A lot of fiction in your posts.



Plain wrong. Probably a Majority of fans have dumped on Horcoff for a very long time, the MINORITY like Horcoff. He was dumped on the first year when he played on the 4th line, he was dumped on when he moved up to the 3rd and 2nd lines. I remember when the battle for top centre was between him and Marty Reasoner one season and MANY people thought Reasoner should have won the battle if not for being injured one year (the broken ankle slide into the end boards icing).

We will have to agree to disagree on this one I don't remember more than a few albeit very vocal people hammering on Horcoff before this year. The vast majority either downright supported him or were somewhat benevolent towards him. The media have had almost zero criticism of him and the team none unless you count the odd 'oh he has to play better.'

Bob Stauffer played an interview with Horcoff yesterday where it was revealed that Yes, Horcoff is indeed playing hurt. He received a cortisone shot recently that helped improved the pain in his shoulder. A couple of months ago when Horcoff wasn't even taking faceoffs, it was due to the pain in the shoulder. This should not be rocket science here - when a team as terrible on faceoffs as the Oiler centres are, doesn't have Horcoff taking faceoffs, it should be evident that he's hurt.

Then this is the 1st credible source, coming yesterday, just not taking faceoffs is not a medical report. In any case if people want to forgive him for playing bad due to an injury we better get out a long list of present and past players that were lambasted for poor play after having major injuries.
Dude where have you been since 05/06. Ever since Horcoff has been playing on the 1st line he's been bashed to no end by fans. The last year has just been the icing on the cake. Is Horcoff overpaid yes by about 1M, but it was either overpay Horcoff who WOULD have got 5M+ on the UFA market and have no first line center or just resign him and not worry about it. Curious to know who you would have replaced him with if he had left as a UFA this year?

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01-20-2010, 12:07 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Because they have no other option is the right answer.

Look at the centre depth on the other teams in the WC and you'll quickly determine one the Oilers major weaknesses.
I agree. They have never had another option.

I guess we can agree he is the best of a bad lot and has been for a while.

Disregarding his contract though, he can still be a valuable, serviceable player. Likely untradeable but wouldn't break my heart if recovers to previous form and stays for the duration.

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01-20-2010, 12:23 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
If that is the case then why in the world is he playing and not recuperating/rehabbing his shoulder?
From what i heard he can't do anymore damage to the shoulder by playing, but I to lean towards him getting better.

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01-20-2010, 12:30 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I gave some very good examples for how this could very well be the case. Where are yours to show it isnt?
You have no proof he is playing and behaving with a sense of entitlement. His play and the skillset he brings has earned his position which speaks unfavorably to our center depth and (first time I've said this) Lowe's marginal managerial skills.

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01-20-2010, 12:35 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by VincenzosOil View Post
I agree. They have never had another option.

I guess we can agree he is the best of a bad lot and has been for a while.

Disregarding his contract though, he can still be a valuable, serviceable player. Likely untradeable but wouldn't break my heart if recovers to previous form and stays for the duration.
Agree completely. He's a valuable player but has been miscast for years.

The question, at least in the short term, is how do the Oilers address their weakness at centre.

I would throw almost anything, including Gagner, at a team in an effort to make a trade for one.

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01-20-2010, 12:41 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VincenzosOil View Post
You have no proof he is playing and behaving with a sense of entitlement. His play and the skillset he brings has earned his position which speaks unfavorably to our center depth and (first time I've said this) Lowe's marginal managerial skills.
I disagree. He has had two good seasons, one shortened by injury and they are both but a distant memory. I dont think it is unreasonable to say that he has a sense of entitlement, and not just him but other holdovers from the 06 team as well. I dont see him coming out to say things that disprove this theory either. Do you have any examples?

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01-20-2010, 12:55 PM
  #64
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[QUOTE=raab;23306098]
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Dude where have you been since 05/06. Ever since Horcoff has been playing on the 1st line he's been bashed to no end by fans. The last year has just been the icing on the cake. Is Horcoff overpaid yes by about 1M, but it was either overpay Horcoff who WOULD have got 5M+ on the UFA market and have no first line center or just resign him and not worry about it. Curious to know who you would have replaced him with if he had left as a UFA this year?
Simply not correct in my opinion. On the forums I frequent and listening to radio a real minority of the fans though they were vocal and persistent ever bashed horcoff.

You are using Kevin Lowe logic here. Because we have no viable #1 center we will take the one we have and pay him like he is one. Horcoff was signed to the extension a full year before they had to and after his shoulder injury. Interesting that with Horcoff we hear, but what were they supposed to do? Let him walk???? They dumped Ryan Smythe and Glencross over a few hundred grand. They shouldn't have just offered up a huge deal to Horcoff when they didn't have to.

They painted themselves into a corner by promising to spend to the cap then when they couldn't get any prime FA's they spent to the cap anyway. Bad management.

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01-20-2010, 01:00 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Smid4327 View Post
horcoff had a No-Movement Clause in the First Two years of this contract I believe
Well his bowels didn't get the memo because he's laying a turd of a season.

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01-20-2010, 01:12 PM
  #66
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[QUOTE=Beerfish;23306913]
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Simply not correct in my opinion. On the forums I frequent and listening to radio a real minority of the fans though they were vocal and persistent ever bashed horcoff.

You are using Kevin Lowe logic here. Because we have no viable #1 center we will take the one we have and pay him like he is one. Horcoff was signed to the extension a full year before they had to and after his shoulder injury. Interesting that with Horcoff we hear, but what were they supposed to do? Let him walk???? They dumped Ryan Smythe and Glencross over a few hundred grand. They shouldn't have just offered up a huge deal to Horcoff when they didn't have to.

They painted themselves into a corner by promising to spend to the cap then when they couldn't get any prime FA's they spent to the cap anyway. Bad management.
The point isn't that we have no #1 center the point is that we had no centers at all. Gagner is just emerging and seems like he's ready for the #2 spot but other then that we had no one who we could trust as a center. And believe it or not Horcoff would arguably have been the best UFA center available last year, so even if we let him walk and take the cap space we wouldn't have been able to sign anyone to replace him.

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01-20-2010, 01:23 PM
  #67
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Oh ya not sure if I answered this ridiculous thread yet or not. Horcoff will not be put in the minors anytime soon. Don't expect the Oilers to even consider this option until there is a year or two left on his contract.

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01-20-2010, 01:24 PM
  #68
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Well his bowels didn't get the memo because he's laying a turd of a season.
That's what I like about this board. Funny, clever stuff

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01-20-2010, 01:24 PM
  #69
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Well his bowels didn't get the memo because he's laying a turd of a season.
While I've seen Horc play some pretty ****** games this year. I havn't actually seen him squat and lay a deuce on the ice.

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01-20-2010, 01:34 PM
  #70
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Well his bowels didn't get the memo because he's laying a turd of a season.
haha...best post on this entire thread

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01-20-2010, 05:40 PM
  #71
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There should be a morality clause in every contract. If a player is playing so poorly that he cannot justify his contract, he should agree to take a pay cut.

Players gets bonuses for great play and stats so why not deductions for poor play?

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01-20-2010, 05:58 PM
  #72
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Players gets bonuses for great play and stats so why not deductions for poor play?
Uhmm...no, they don't.

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01-20-2010, 06:02 PM
  #73
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Only way Horcoff leaves the Oil is via trade. Minors & buyout just won't happen due to the cap & size / length of his contract.

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01-20-2010, 07:15 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
If that is the case then why in the world is he playing and not recuperating/rehabbing his shoulder?
Maybe it can't be fixed?

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01-20-2010, 07:21 PM
  #75
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Maybe it can't be fixed?
OT: That's a great pic. Are there any new Spacemoose comics?

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