HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Ryan The Great

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-20-2010, 11:10 AM
  #26
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I can't say I agree with you at all on your 2nd paragraph. I think the one thing that separates the "top six" from the "bottom six" is how effective they are at getting the puck in the net. Not how well they put the puck in the net themselves, but how useful they are in getting points on the board.

Not every top-six player is "complete." In fact, I'd go as far as to say there are more "incomplete" top-six forwards in the league than "complete" ones. Alex Semin plays no defense at all, is he a top-six forward? Tomas Holmstrom skates like my Grandmother and has terrible vision, is he not a top-six player? See what I'm getting at?

Look at it this way: Jed Ortmeyer and Ryan Callahan are both solid defensively, very fast, and play with a ton of heart. What separates the two? It's the fact that while Callahan may not have the greatest hands in the world, he's still able to find ways to put the puck in the net, or generate chances for his linemates by causing turn overs or retrieving the puck from the dirty areas. Ortmeyer can't do that.

It's the same reasoning behind people wanting Avery on the top line with Gaborik, or with Jagr in previous years. Is he a skill player? Not even close, but he does the things that allow those players to succeed. That's often just as important in this game as having sweet hands and a goal scorers touch.

I don't care how many notches Callahan has in the "A" column on the scoresheet. He doesn't get an assist for crushing a defensemen into the boards on the forecheck which allows his linemates to create an odd-man opportunity in front of the net. He doesn't get an assist for causing a give away in the neutral zone. Those things don't show up on the box score, but are just as important to the offense as the guy who dipsy-do's through the guys legs and feeds someone for a one-timer. If he scores 20+ goals, while bringing everything else I've mentioned to the table, I'll put him on my 2nd line every night.
Ill conceed the 20+ goals to you, but everything else youre describing is what makes him a great 3rd liner.

Offensively, hes very opportunistic, and while I dont think he has the skill to be a natural 20 goal scorer, his bulldog attitude makes up for it in that regard. I'd say his effort alone is good for 5 additional goals per season, maybe more.

If you want to tell me that Ryan Callahan is a 2nd/3rd line tweener that might be able to produce in the top 6 with the right talents around him, I'd conceed that point. But I cant sit here and say that Ryan Callahan is a legitimate top 6 player in the traditional sense of the term. His offensive game, specifically his playmaking and puck handling skills, is far too limited for that type of label...and in the top 6 is where I want my offensive skill guys.

Like I said, maybe I'd agree that he can be a de-facto top 6 guy with the right talent around him (like how Dubinsky is thriving with Gaborik), but Callahan as a stand-alone top 6 guy? No way, not now, and probably not ever.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 11:17 AM
  #27
msv957
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhockey193195 View Post
Callahan is everything right about a hockey player.
Definately agree.... What is there not to like about Cally?? Perfect example that shows Heart/Determination with average skills goes a lot further than having elite skills with NO Heart/Determination (cough,cough Zherdev)

msv957 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 11:20 AM
  #28
msv957
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterUnspoken View Post
"Callahan can't hold Okposo's jock" ~Isles fan comment in the USA hockey thread
Cally definately deserved to be on Team USA.. The USA fans are gonna love him!!..... but I do believe Okposo definately should have made Team USA also...

msv957 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 11:37 AM
  #29
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 17,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Ill conceed the 20+ goals to you, but everything else youre describing is what makes him a great 3rd liner.

Offensively, hes very opportunistic, and while I dont think he has the skill to be a natural 20 goal scorer, his bulldog attitude makes up for it in that regard. I'd say his effort alone is good for 5 additional goals per season, maybe more.

If you want to tell me that Ryan Callahan is a 2nd/3rd line tweener that might be able to produce in the top 6 with the right talents around him, I'd conceed that point. But I cant sit here and say that Ryan Callahan is a legitimate top 6 player in the traditional sense of the term. His offensive game, specifically his playmaking and puck handling skills, is far too limited for that type of label...and in the top 6 is where I want my offensive skill guys.

Like I said, maybe I'd agree that he can be a de-facto top 6 guy with the right talent around him (like how Dubinsky is thriving with Gaborik), but Callahan as a stand-alone top 6 guy? No way, not now, and probably not ever.
But that's the point. In the NHL, it's not as if every top-six forward is a player that can carry a line on his own. It's not cookie-cutter assembly where you're saying; "Skill guy, skill guy, skill guy.." etc.

Look at my last post; Do you consider Holmstrom a top-six forward? How about Ryan Malone? Mike Knuble? There's a such thing as a "role forward" and that's what Callahan is.

If you want a real comparison, look at Chris Kunitz. He's the same player I think Callahan will ultimately become. Fiesty, decent hands, and creates space for his linemates. Kunitz is a mediocre passer at best, but he's still a top-six forward; because while he doesn't make the players around him better with slick passes or dangling ability, he allows those skill players the space to be more effective.

Point being, not every top-six forward can thread passes. Not every one can dangle. Not every one can fire lasers. At some point you just have to be realistic and say, "Hey, this brick is a little dirty, but I can still use it to build my house."

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 12:19 PM
  #30
SkerZ
LGR
 
SkerZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 583
vCash: 500
Cally is one of our most consistent fowards in terms of work ethic. He shows up every night and gives it his all, the kid is great to watch. Keep it up Cally!!

SkerZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 01:51 PM
  #31
kennglin13
Registered User
 
kennglin13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 263
vCash: 500
At first I thought this thread was going to be about Rex Ryan

kennglin13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 02:21 PM
  #32
KreiMeARiver*
Have Confidence
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UES
Posts: 6,621
vCash: 500
He's not Great, nor is he Graves...but he is very good and I'm glad he's a Ranger.

KreiMeARiver* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 02:25 PM
  #33
McRanger
Registered User
 
McRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
But that's the point. In the NHL, it's not as if every top-six forward is a player that can carry a line on his own. It's not cookie-cutter assembly where you're saying; "Skill guy, skill guy, skill guy.." etc.

Look at my last post; Do you consider Holmstrom a top-six forward? How about Ryan Malone? Mike Knuble? There's a such thing as a "role forward" and that's what Callahan is.

If you want a real comparison, look at Chris Kunitz. He's the same player I think Callahan will ultimately become. Fiesty, decent hands, and creates space for his linemates. Kunitz is a mediocre passer at best, but he's still a top-six forward; because while he doesn't make the players around him better with slick passes or dangling ability, he allows those skill players the space to be more effective.

Point being, not every top-six forward can thread passes. Not every one can dangle. Not every one can fire lasers. At some point you just have to be realistic and say, "Hey, this brick is a little dirty, but I can still use it to build my house."
Good post.

Sometimes I think people, not saying you BRB but some on this board, have little understanding of the dynamics in constructing a successful team or even a successful line. That kind of thinking by the organization has been a detriment to this team for a while.

McRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 02:29 PM
  #34
Shake and Bake
 
Shake and Bake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,367
vCash: 500
But I thought Chris Drury is better?

Shake and Bake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 02:35 PM
  #35
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake and Bake View Post
But I thought Chris Drury is better?
Will you ever give it a rest with this guy?

If not, maybe just admit Drury has been playing very good hockey for the last few weeks?

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 02:37 PM
  #36
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Good post.

Sometimes I think people, not saying you BRB but some on this board, have little understanding of the dynamics in constructing a successful team or even a successful line. That kind of thinking by the organization has been a detriment to this team for a while.
No worries, I dont feel like youre singling me out.

But I'd disagree. Grit and effort can only take you so far. This organization needs less Ryan Callahan's and more Marian Gaborik's.

And thats not a slight to Callahan at all. I realize his worth and hope hes a Ranger for a long time.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 03:25 PM
  #37
Lundqvist=Vezina
Legendary
 
Lundqvist=Vezina's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: My world
Country: United States
Posts: 5,226
vCash: 529
Send a message via AIM to Lundqvist=Vezina
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This organization needs less Ryan Callahan's and more Marian Gaborik's.
How many Gaboriks are in the league and available? Come on, this is a silly statement.

Lundqvist=Vezina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 03:44 PM
  #38
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundqvist=Vezina View Post
How many Gaboriks are in the league and available? Come on, this is a silly statement.
I didnt mean for you to take it literally. The larger argument is this team could certainly use some more skill.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 03:53 PM
  #39
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I didnt mean for you to take it literally. The larger argument is this team could certainly use some more skill.
yeah, but i think its the "and available" part that hes talking about....

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 04:10 PM
  #40
kennglin13
Registered User
 
kennglin13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 263
vCash: 500
according to last night's game we have 8 Marion Gaboriks

kennglin13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 04:15 PM
  #41
slovakfan*
 
slovakfan*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Kosice
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 1,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennglin13 View Post
according to last night's game we have 8 Marion Gaboriks
yeah really
but not Marian Gaboriks

slovakfan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 04:19 PM
  #42
Fitzy
All Is Well
 
Fitzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 20,009
vCash: 500
Fun Facts;

Ryan Callahan is still 4th in the league in hits with 177
He is 4th among forwards in blocked shots with 52, Drury is 1st with 65.

Fitzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 04:45 PM
  #43
kennglin13
Registered User
 
kennglin13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slovakfan View Post
yeah really
but not Marian Gaboriks
Hopefully by the time I reach 900 posts I will learn how to spell player names

kennglin13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 04:50 PM
  #44
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennglin13 View Post
Hopefully by the time I reach 900 posts I will learn how to spell player names
some people still spell Staal as Stall or Stahl...its unbelievable....and they see his name spelled correctly all the time...

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 05:07 PM
  #45
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 24,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
some people still spell Staal as Stall or Stahl...its unbelievable....and they see his name spelled correctly all the time...
I keep saying, how many brothers do they have to put into the league for people to get that name right? Very simple, two A's: Staal. See

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 07:17 PM
  #46
Beacon
Sent to HF Minors
 
Beacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 9,669
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I don't care how many notches Callahan has in the "A" column on the scoresheet. He doesn't get an assist for crushing a defensemen into the boards on the forecheck which allows his linemates to create an odd-man opportunity in front of the net. He doesn't get an assist for causing a give away in the neutral zone. Those things don't show up on the box score, but are just as important to the offense as the guy who dipsy-do's through the guys legs and feeds someone for a one-timer. If he scores 20+ goals, while bringing everything else I've mentioned to the table, I'll put him on my 2nd line every night.

Is there ever a shift where Callahan is on the ice where you think, "boy, I wish we had someone else out there instead of him"?

Last year when he hit 20 goals, I wrote here that if he can get 20 again this year, we should consider him a legit second liner. If the kid scores 10-12 goals a year, he's a very good third liner. But as a 20+ goal scorer for two seasons in a row (which he should be able to do), the kid is a second liner.

The guy isn't Corey Locke who needs to score or is useless.

Beacon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 07:40 PM
  #47
we want cup
Ants in the Pants
 
we want cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Country: United States
Posts: 11,162
vCash: 500
I would much rather have a whole team of Callahans than a whole team of Zherdevs.

we want cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 07:41 PM
  #48
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 17,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Is there ever a shift where Callahan is on the ice where you think, "boy, I wish we had someone else out there instead of him"?

Last year when he hit 20 goals, I wrote here that if he can get 20 again this year, we should consider him a legit second liner. If the kid scores 10-12 goals a year, he's a very good third liner. But as a 20+ goal scorer for two seasons in a row (which he should be able to do), the kid is a second liner.

The guy isn't Corey Locke who needs to score or is useless.
Actually there is. I say that everytime I see him in front of the net on the power play. Really not the right spot for him.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 07:43 PM
  #49
NYRangers77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Is there ever a shift where Callahan is on the ice where you think, "boy, I wish we had someone else out there instead of him"?
Never

At least no one from this team

NYRangers77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2010, 07:49 PM
  #50
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
No worries, I dont feel like youre singling me out.

But I'd disagree. Grit and effort can only take you so far. This organization needs less Ryan Callahan's and more Marian Gaborik's.

And thats not a slight to Callahan at all. I realize his worth and hope hes a Ranger for a long time.
What the organization needs less of is Higgins, Kotalik, Lisin, Christensen, etc. These players are simply less valuable versions of...whatever you want to call them, second liners, third liners, tweeners. Of them all, Callahan is the only one worth a damn. I'd love to replace one of them with another Gaborik, but I wouldn't mind replacing any of them with another Callahan, either. It would certainly be an improvement.

NYR Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:46 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.