It looks like a lose-lose situation. Take Ladd and get a guy who will probably pot 20 goals. Take Schremp and risk a top 6 pick. Either way to me it looks like a draft that will not have much of an impact on the future of this franchise. Once again we don't suck enough to get ourselves a good pick.
I think we'll get a good player with this pick. Fact is that outside of Ovechkin there are a lot of question marks. I don't buy into the "weak draft" theory like some or even most. i just think that after Ovechkin {who to me isn't as much of sure thing as people believe either} there are a lot of kids who are in the middle of developing. I could take everyone from Barker to Olesz to Radulov to Ladd to Schremp and tell you what I REALLY like about them and what I don't. In the end it comes down to which unfinished product you believe is going to be work out the best in the end. IMO Barker or Olesz are just as likely to be flops as Ladd, Schremp or whomever you prefer.
how about getting moises guitterez 6ft 3 195 and growing like mighty joe young could develop into a very rugged glenn murray type plays for kamloops blazers whl
Actually, there's another nut out there....I think we agree 100% on the team needs and what type of player to draft given what we already have...Both Schremp and Radulov seem to fit the bill from where we stand..And what fun would it be if we agreed exactly?
Actually, I'm the nut...lol. We could not go wrong with a lot of the players, but I love Radulov's demeanor as a hockey player.
Some quotes from an article on him:
"Alexander Radulov's reputation suffered this year thanks to more than one reported altercation with his coaches, while his penchant for arguing with referees also cast a shadow on his season.
Known as an emotional, outspoken and very honest kid, Radulov became an instant wildcard.
"It's interesting with some of these Russian kids. You hear about (Nikolai) Zherdev and his ambiguous relationship with (World Junior coach) Rafail Ishmatov," says our Russian scout, "and then you go back even farther to when Alexander Mogilny had his 'fireside chats' with Viktor Tikhonov. As it looks now, Mogilny did pretty well for himself, and Zherdev ripped up the NHL late in the year.
"I'd love to see (Radulov) be something like these guys. If his competitiveness brings out the animal in him, then I could care less (about reputation). I'd rather see a guy who cares enough to be vocal, than a player who is a quiet paperweight."
"I am emotional, but at the same time, if I was... more calm... I would have already stopped playing hockey," says Radulov, "So, emotion is my wild card."
"I should probably be a bit calmer, more disciplined, and better fulfill the coach's directives. I also like to talk back less to the refs. I like to argue with them, but this is unnecessary."
THK Tver head coach Nikolai Vanin doesn't hide Radulov's shortcomings, but points out that his playing makeup ideally fits the characteristics of a solid pro.
"He always wants to be on the ice," says Vanin, "(He) understands the ranges well and can beat a defenseman one on one. He is a very fast and maneuverable player. If we examine the Super League or the NHL, these qualities are a must there."
I'd take a tipsy Russian any day of the week, lol. Seriously, this guy has the drive and the emotion that takes players a long way in the NHL. I'd love to watch a guy that is similar to Kovalchuk get fired up when he scores goals and even in general.
Yes he's vocal and etc. etc. etc. but it just gets to the point where it's "Shut and play already".
Could be a very talented player or could be an enigma wrapped inside of a riddle, locked inside of mystery, swimming in a see of wonderment.
All that glitters is not gold and we can't get caught up with shiney objects just because they have some flashy moves.
Schremp and Radulov have elite level talent, top level for this draft and they also have personalities that when added to the element known as NYC could equal one giant explosion.
Push comes to shove I take Schremp over Radulov. Radulov has all the skill in the world {though it's simply not on the level of Mogilny and Zherdev yet} but the biggest concern is that he doesn't listen to ANYONE out there. Not the coaches, not the players, not the trainers and THAT is a big concern. If you think he can be tamed than he might be worth it but this team has enough challanges on its hands without trying to get some kid to pay attention.
Yes he's vocal and etc. etc. etc. but it just gets to the point where it's "Shut and play already".
Could be a very talented player or could be an enigma wrapped inside of a riddle, locked inside of mystery, swimming in a see of wonderment.
All that glitters is not gold and we can't get caught up with shiney objects just because they have some flashy moves.
Schremp and Radulov have elite level talent, top level for this draft and they also have personalities that when added to the element known as NYC could equal one giant explosion.
Push comes to shove I take Schremp over Radulov. Radulov has all the skill in the world {though it's simply not on the level of Mogilny and Zherdev yet} but the biggest concern is that he doesn't listen to ANYONE out there. Not the coaches, not the players, not the trainers and THAT is a big concern. If you think he can be tamed than he might be worth it but this team has enough challanges on its hands without trying to get some kid to pay attention.
Edge--- Your concerns about Radulov are quite valid...I see alot of Kovalev in this kid..Now, if that's the Kovalev from the Pen days and some of his early NY days then cool..OTOH, you know..Defintely might be more of a hit or miss then other guys, but his skill is undeniable and if the mustang can be tamed a bit, watch out..I love the hight ceiling...And I love the way he has excelled over the past 6 months and playing huge in 2 international tournaments...Says alot about how he reacts to pressure...ANd one thing to remember is that I think RADULOV is one of the youngest kids in the draft class so the immaturity may just be something he grows out of.....
All this being said, I wouldn't be mad at a "safer" pick like Ladd and his AMerican cousin in Schremp...And even Thelen might float my boat, but I just like this Radulov kid...Gotta love those facts, eh?
Yes he's vocal and etc. etc. etc. but it just gets to the point where it's "Shut and play already".
Could be a very talented player or could be an enigma wrapped inside of a riddle, locked inside of mystery, swimming in a see of wonderment.
All that glitters is not gold and we can't get caught up with shiney objects just because they have some flashy moves.
Schremp and Radulov have elite level talent, top level for this draft and they also have personalities that when added to the element known as NYC could equal one giant explosion.
Push comes to shove I take Schremp over Radulov. Radulov has all the skill in the world {though it's simply not on the level of Mogilny and Zherdev yet} but the biggest concern is that he doesn't listen to ANYONE out there. Not the coaches, not the players, not the trainers and THAT is a big concern. If you think he can be tamed than he might be worth it but this team has enough challanges on its hands without trying to get some kid to pay attention.
Great.
So we have the kid that won't listen or the kid who is somewhat lazy.
Heres a question - which one of these guys is more willing to drive the net for a goal? I'd rather have a kid with some attitude because he will usually be fired up on the ice as opposed to Lundmark - type floating.
lets see a kid who has the capabilities to be the best player to come out of the draft or a kid who has limited upside however is more likely to fullfill his potential
here's my take on it, the entire draft is a risk, as i've seen said before there are never gaurantees.. i'll take the guy with the best potential
1) I voted for Ladd. I'm still waffling though, and I cringe everytime someone starts talking about Schremp's upside.
Bottom Line (for me): Schremp sounds suspiciously like a more extreme version of Lundmark. A decent sized, All-Offense, limited-defense, questionable work-ethic, finesse forward. All talk of talent and upside aside, it's just not a style of play I enjoy, or really think wins in today's NHL. At least, not in the Eastern conference.
It's not that I believe every forward has to be Cam Neely or Eric Lindros (in his prime). The key for me is versatility. Mike York wasn't a wunderkind scoring machine, or a badass PF. But he was a terrific two-way guy. He could play any forward position. He could PK. He'd block shots. He'd battle for pucks, and he could pass and shoot. He didn't do any one thing at an 'elite' level. But he did them all well, and he played hard every night.
Give me the versatility. Ladd may never be a top line PF chipping in 70 points a season. He may 'bust' and end up a terrific third line forward chipping in a hard-working and physical 30 points a season. But the point for me is that he can contribute in more than one way, and in more than one roster spot. Schremp is either an All-Star scorer, or he's another defensive softie that Rangers HC will have to work around.
2) Radulov is the next Kovalev? :mad:
He's officially dropped right off my chart. I HATE Kovalev.
An uncoachable head case who doesn't play defense, who takes selfish penalties, and then argues with referees? ***** that. I lived through the first one, and that's all I ever want to see of it.
Enjoy the deadbeat Montreal! Sign him to a five year contract, I dare you.
1) He may 'bust' and end up a terrific third line forward chipping in a hard-working and physical 30 points a season. But the point for me is that he can contribute in more than one way, and in more than one roster spot. Schremp is either an All-Star scorer, or he's another defensive softie that Rangers HC will have to work around.
Barker is my too choice. Ovechkin, Olesz, and Malking will be off the table. After that, I think that Barker will go. If he falls to us, gotta grab him. If not, the choice is between Ladd & Schremp. Now, I want Ladd but here's thhe thing. If he indeed "busts" and becomes a very good 3rd liner, that would put a HUGE hurting on the "rebuild". IMO, the Rangers cannot afford to get a good 3rd liner with the 6th pick. The entire rebuild hinges on the 2 1st rounder and 4 or 5 2nd rounders. Jackass CANNOT emerge with several good 3rd liners. He needs one home run. As Edge says, this draft is all about doing your homework. He needs to emerge with several top line(s) players from here, not just 3rd liners.
Having said that, I do want Ladd if Barker is off the table. I think that he projects to be a pretty good 2nd line player. Not a top-end talent, but a 2nd line PF nevertheless. If he turns out to be a Glen Murray, Adam Deadmarsh, Ryan Smyth type of player, then he is a worthy pick at #6.
Schremp may have a world of talent, but there are several things about him that scare me. It's not the questions of his attitude, as Umberger has questions about his as well. No. What scares me about him is that he appears to be averse to the physical aspects of the game. We already have one Porta Poti. No need to have one on defense and one on offense.
But having said that, if both Barker and Ladd are gone, then Schremp is the choice becuase of the severe drop-off in talent after that.
TB - I agree, if Ladd 'busts' and is only a third liner, that'd be disasterous for the rebuild. But I'd rather have him fail but still be a useful part of a possible winning team than Schremp fail and be a malcontent in Hartford.
Kubera55 said, "Ladd may never be a top line PF chipping in 70 points a season. He may 'bust' and end up a terrific third line forward chipping in a hard-working and physical 30 points a season. But the point for me is that he can contribute in more than one way, and in more than one roster spot. Schremp is either an All-Star scorer, or he's another defensive softie that Rangers HC will have to work around."
I also voted for ladd, but obviously ive never seen him play and comments like this scare me. if he becomes a "bust" and a 3rd liner then it was a completely wasted pick. I have read that ladd has what it takes to be a 2nd line powerfoward, hes already 6'2 and 199 lbs, so he defintely has the size , and he was not playing with a real playmaking center and he basically carried his team. this is the stuff that i want to hear, but if he turns into a 3rd line winger then it is a problem.
we have guys like betts, murray, ortmeyer, and d-lac if re-signed who are alreayd younger 3rd and 4th line wingers. then we have guys like falardeau, kozak, wiseman, stals, and giroux who are also 3rd or 4th line guys. then guys like helminen, moore, and lundmark who could be 2nd or 3rd line players depending on progress. in this draft we need a top 6 foward for sure, we have balej and jessiman as our only guys who can be said to be top 6 material (jessiman is based on whether he can make the nhl).
i dont want schremp, anyone who is being compared to lundmark is a pass for me, especially the questioned work ethic, we already had brendl and if we want someone with all the talent and questioned work ethic we can just sign umberger
so the way i see it we pick ladd only if we think he is going to be a top 6 guy, and if not then maybe we should go elsewhere, maybe we go with melynk and pick radulov? im not sure what the answer is but if we dont think ladd is a top 6 player im not sure i want him, i hope he will be and he sounds like he can be, but there are alot of questions, as for schremp, ill say no right here, so renney better be looking for a 2nd option or maybe sather will be working on some sort of trade?
Barker is my too choice. Ovechkin, Olesz, and Malking will be off the table. After that, I think that Barker will go. If he falls to us, gotta grab him. If not, the choice is between Ladd & Schremp. Now, I want Ladd but here's thhe thing. If he indeed "busts" and becomes a very good 3rd liner, that would put a HUGE hurting on the "rebuild". IMO, the Rangers cannot afford to get a good 3rd liner with the 6th pick. The entire rebuild hinges on the 2 1st rounder and 4 or 5 2nd rounders. Jackass CANNOT emerge with several good 3rd liners. He needs one home run. As Edge says, this draft is all about doing your homework. He needs to emerge with several top line(s) players from here, not just 3rd liners.
Having said that, I do want Ladd if Barker is off the table. I think that he projects to be a pretty good 2nd line player. Not a top-end talent, but a 2nd line PF nevertheless. If he turns out to be a Glen Murray, Adam Deadmarsh, Ryan Smyth type of player, then he is a worthy pick at #6.
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Originally Posted by Kubera55
TB - I agree, if Ladd 'busts' and is only a third liner, that'd be disasterous for the rebuild.
From all reports, Schremp has a high-end skill level. Lundmark was never on that level. Schremp is listed at 200 lbs. Lundmark will never see 200 lbs. This team has two, maybe three players with top line skill and ability. Hey, if Sather gets a chance to trade up for Olesz, i'm all for it. But, to me Schremp represents an opportunity to grab high talent. There are plenty of chances to get solid players with 2nd round picks. I think Schremp is worth the gamble in the same way jessiman is worth the gamble.
we have a top 6 pick, this is a chance to get a real quality player for the future, we havent done so well in the top ten in the past with picks like brendl, lundmark (yet to be determined), and malhotra. weve had 1 good pick out of 4 and thats blackie but who even knows when he will be ready
the point is its time to get a top tier player for our future, a bust wont cut it this time
and if sather and renney dont think there is that type of player with the top 6 pick then he needs to trade the pick along with say poti or someone else for a young kid who can be a top 6 player for us
thats what this team is really lacking (besides a coach and consistent goalie but hopefully we can address that need elsewhere)
From what I've read, Schremp is more skilled than Lundmark. He is top three with Ovechkin and Malkin. Is it true that this is Ladd's first season in the WHL? If so we might have a late bloomer with this kid. That would definitely swing my vote in his favor. If he's got the size, speed, and skills that Edge says he has, Ladd may continue to get better as his junior career progresses and eventually become the PF we all hope and dream about.
so lemme get this straight. We're worrying about Ladd "busting" by being an NHL'er? Granted a third liner, but an NHL'er none the less.
What i don't see is no one bothering to mention the 40-45 some odd games Schremp put in cruise control and allowed fellow draft eligiable teammate Dave Bolland pass him and outplay him.
Sorry but no amount of a talent in the world is gonna change that. But then again he has "ohhh ahhhh" upside that everyone ruins their pants over so who cares if he ends up bust by becoming Dan Cleary......
So Andrew Ladd being a third line winger would be the end of the world for rebuilding but Robbie Schremp never making an impact would be okay because at least we went for a homerun?
This ladies and gentleman is exactly why the Rangers and Devils have gone opposite directions since 1994. One team insists on always swinging for the fences {where unless you are Barry Bonds means you're gonna stike out a ton} while the other actually gets guys on base and brings em home.
Long story short, I don't think Ladd is some kid who scored 10 goals this season and is a raw project {aka Chipchura}. I'd rather have a stable of solid young players and have some depth to deal with than one "superstar" and a bunch of missed chances to surround him with players that actually win. When this team one it's last cup it did so because it had developed the depth to make deals to get the superstars. When this team failed it was because it did it the reverse way. It's obviously not too hard to see which way is the better way to go.
Now if we're talking about Olesz vs. Ladd, than you gotta go with Olesz. But i'm seeing a lot of comments about Schremp on these boards and having seen him this year I'm really worrying that people are getting the wrong impression about him. Until a late season hot streak, Mr. Potential wasn't even averaging a point per game.
From all reports, Schremp has a high-end skill level. Lundmark was never on that level. Schremp is listed at 200 lbs. Lundmark will never see 200 lbs. This team has two, maybe three players with top line skill and ability. Hey, if Sather gets a chance to trade up for Olesz, i'm all for it. But, to me Schremp represents an opportunity to grab high talent. There are plenty of chances to get solid players with 2nd round picks. I think Schremp is worth the gamble in the same way jessiman is worth the gamble.
Lundmark also played with grit and heart his draft year.
Plenty of chances to get solid players with second round picks? Have you actually been following who is out there in the second round. They are nice player, but i wouldn't go in with the strategy of building my draft via the second round.
Problem is this team took their gamble pick last year. If you take Schremp this year and he busts {and Jessiman does} I think you've got a bigger problem then a kid like Ladd "only" being a third line NHL'er.
From all reports, Schremp has a high-end skill level. Lundmark was never on that level. Schremp is listed at 200 lbs. Lundmark will never see 200 lbs. This team has two, maybe three players with top line skill and ability. Hey, if Sather gets a chance to trade up for Olesz, i'm all for it. But, to me Schremp represents an opportunity to grab high talent. There are plenty of chances to get solid players with 2nd round picks. I think Schremp is worth the gamble in the same way jessiman is worth the gamble.
schremp has been described all throughout this post as offensive minded player with tons of skill but with a lax work ethic and he is not a solid 2 way player? kinda reminds me of the lundmark we saw at times this year, lundmark clearly has offensive skill he hasnt been able to find at the nhl level, if you look at the penalties he took all year they were hooking or obstruction penalties usually in the neutral zone, lazy penalties, he was consistently caught water-skiing even enough so that jd and sam would mention it, lundmark is not solid defensively, he was good on the pk with ortmeyer, but how good was he without him? lundmark is 195, you make it sound like he is 180 and schremp is listed at 195 so he will probably grow into a 205-210 tops
all im saying is there are similarities between schremp and lundmark that others are pointing out, not me, ive never even seen schremp play, but if he is anything like lundmark i will pass
we have a top 6 pick, this is a chance to get a real quality player for the future, we havent done so well in the top ten in the past with picks like brendl, lundmark (yet to be determined), and malhotra. weve had 1 good pick out of 4 and thats blackie but who even knows when he will be ready
Brendl and Lundmark were our top tier talent. Jessiman is our top tier talent gamble. Maybe the real problem is that we're going about this the wrong way. Having a engine in a car is great, but if it doesn't have four wheels to do the dirty work you're not going to be going anywhere.
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the point is its time to get a top tier player for our future, a bust wont cut it this time
The point is to get a SOLID player, something this team HASN'T had in years. In fact our problems right now go with the "find a top tier player" mentality. We've tried it at the draft {Brendl} and via trades {Jagr} and via free agents {pick your poisen}. Maybe it's time we actually try building a team, getting some depth and THEN working around to get that star player. Having depth and building a team usually works better than having a franchise player and no franchise for him to play with.
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and if sather and renney dont think there is that type of player with the top 6 pick then he needs to trade the pick along with say poti or someone else for a young kid who can be a top 6 player for us
They'll get someone there at 6. Whether it is someone who drops or whatever, there are 8 or so players who have varying degrees of potential but there are at least 8 guys who have a good shot at being top 6 players.
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thats what this team is really lacking (besides a coach and consistent goalie but hopefully we can address that need elsewhere)
The team is lacking a team, not a player. We've had plenty of players over the years but we've lacked a team for about a decade now.
so lemme get this straight. We're worrying about Ladd "busting" by being an NHL'er? Granted a third liner, but an NHL'er none the less.
What i don't see is no one bothering to mention the 40-45 some odd games Schremp put in cruise control and allowed fellow draft eligiable teammate Dave Bolland pass him and outplay him.
Sorry but no amount of a talent in the world is gonna change that. But then again he has "ohhh ahhhh" upside that everyone ruins their pants over so who cares if he ends up bust by becoming Dan Cleary......
So Andrew Ladd being a third line winger would be the end of the world for rebuilding but Robbie Schremp never making an impact would be okay because at least we went for a homerun?
This ladies and gentleman is exactly why the Rangers and Devils have gone opposite directions since 1994. One team insists on always swinging for the fences {where unless you are Barry Bonds means you're gonna stike out a ton} while the other actually gets guys on base and brings em home.
Long story short, I don't think Ladd is some kid who scored 10 goals this season and is a raw project {aka Chipchura}. I'd rather have a stable of solid young players and have some depth to deal with than one "superstar" and a bunch of missed chances to surround him with players that actually win. When this team one it's last cup it did so because it had developed the depth to make deals to get the superstars. When this team failed it was because it did it the reverse way. It's obviously not too hard to see which way is the better way to go.
Now if we're talking about Olesz vs. Ladd, than you gotta go with Olesz. But i'm seeing a lot of comments about Schremp on these boards and having seen him this year I'm really worrying that people are getting the wrong impression about him. Until a late season hot streak, Mr. Potential wasn't even averaging a point per game.
His unimpressive point production may be due to the changes he had to adapt to when joining his new team. His old team was more run and gun, his new team was more defensive oriented. Schremp's minutes were cut, as well. Note, he didn't complain at all.
Problem is this team took their gamble pick last year. If you take Schremp this year and he busts {and Jessiman does} I think you've got a bigger problem then a kid like Ladd "only" being a third line NHL'er.
edge
i can only agree, i dont want a player who just didnt care at the end of the season, we can sign plenty of 30 year olds for that. ill pass on schremp, as for ladd, my point is that the rangers either better see him as a 2nd line guy or a 3rd liner, because if they see him as a 3rd liner then i will have to pass on him as well, we have plenty of those guys and we do have this pick and a guy like poti we can afford to trade to another team to get a top prospect or maybe even a younger nhler who can be a top 6 foward here because that is what we need, we have plenty of 3rd and 4th line guys, and if thats what ladd will be, theres no problem with that, but we cant have a team or 3rd liners unless we plan on hiring nolan who will get kids to play as if they skate thru a brickwall if he asked and then do it again
From what I've read, Schremp is more skilled than Lundmark. He is top three with Ovechkin and Malkin. Is it true that this is Ladd's first season in the WHL? If so we might have a late bloomer with this kid. That would definitely swing my vote in his favor. If he's got the size, speed, and skills that Edge says he has, Ladd may continue to get better as his junior career progresses and eventually become the PF we all hope and dream about.
It was Ladd's first season, but he was a december birthday.
As for Schremp his skill level is def. top 5 for the draft. It's the effort i worry about. I mean until his little hot streak which teased people with his kill, a lot of people forget that Dave Bolland had actually outplayed him for the whole season {And i'm not just talking about points here people}.
His unimpressive point production may be due to the changes he had to adapt to when joining his new team. His old team was more run and gun, his new team was more defensive oriented. Schremp's minutes were cut, as well. Note, he didn't complain at all.
None of that is what concerns me. Bottom line is that if you're not scoring or if you're adjusting you can still contribute. He didn't. That more than points and other areas concerns me. It's one of the same things that worries me about Radulov. It's that "I'm a scorer so i can float" mentality that REALLY concerns me. If you're gonna have that attitude you better be scoring like Sydney Crosby.
Bolland outplayed, out hustled and out worked Schremp a good 85% of the season. Now adjustments or not, Schremp had a lot of nights were he looked like he wasn't interested in paying the price to win. Scouts enter the stands and suddenly WHAM he turns his skills on and does a pretty scoring move to impress them. He hotdogged in front of the scouts but then disappeared again when his team could have used his ability.
The kid has the skills there was no reason he couldn't at least TRY out there more nights. At 5'11 {generously listed} he's gonna need to keep working out there if he wants to make it because the competition sure as heck isn't getting easy from this point on. With his skill level there is ZERO reason why Dave Bolland should have stood out more on that team. Zero.
..I think we agree 100% on the team needs and what type of player to draft given what we already have...Both Schremp and Radulov seem to fit the bill from where we stand..And what fun would it be if we agreed exactly?
