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Oilers Bag Skate #2 today

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Old
01-20-2010, 02:50 PM
  #76
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As far as I'm concerned they should be rewarded for their play as of late, no?

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01-20-2010, 02:53 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by oilers8389 View Post
As far as I'm concerned they should be rewarded for their play as of late, no?
No. Emotionless, effortless, and careless hockey should not be awarded.

This team is bad enough to lose their way to a top three pick without the presence of any of those things. Allowing or accepting those things is what leads to a 7-8 year rebuild instead of a 2-3 year rebuild.

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01-20-2010, 02:57 PM
  #78
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They might want to look at the ten pound sack of potatoes that is attatched to the top of it.
LOL, that was awesome Liquor thanks for the laugh.

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01-20-2010, 03:02 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by thome_26 View Post
No. Emotionless, effortless, and careless hockey should not be awarded.

This team is bad enough to lose their way to a top three pick without the presence of any of those things. Allowing or accepting those things is what leads to a 7-8 year rebuild instead of a 2-3 year rebuild.
I doubt that losing all of these games is going to take the rebuild from 2-3 years to 7-8 years. Most of the fans have accepted that they are done this year and want a good pick, so why are we so worried about how they lose the games? Next year hopefully Moreau and company will be gone and it will finally be a fresh start. You have to think the young guys see it coming and aren't too worried about it. No one likes losing but I bet if you asked Gagner if he'd like to play with Hall or Seguin next year or the year after he would smile and say yes that'd be nice.

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01-20-2010, 03:02 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by thome_26 View Post
I see where you are coming from in making sure that sending the message should be viewed as the most important thing. After all they are just going to lose again tonight, right?


But you have to look at it more carefully than that. If that isn't a clear sign to the players that the games no longer matter and that winning is no longer the most important thing, I'm not sure what would be. Although I share the initial sentiment that you maybe expressing, you must be careful not to be to smart by a half. I think having Moreau partake in a bag skate and then miss a game would be doing just that.
I have a hard time believing he would have missed the game. He'd know if he started pushing it to far and could back off before making it worse. The coaching staff and players would have known about his neck, and I'm sure they would have cut him some slack if he wasn't keeping pace. The whole point is that he should have been there with his teammates.

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01-20-2010, 03:03 PM
  #81
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Soon enough there will be a media quote from Ethan saying they shouldn't have to bag skate because it's not their fault.

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01-20-2010, 03:04 PM
  #82
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I have major problems with Moreau missing the bag skate and playing in tonights game.

I understand completely that a "tweaked neck" would constitute sitting out of the bag skate, but this should automatically place him in the press box for the game. If his neck is sore, let him rest. We have other players that can play in his stead.

This looks really, really bad for him and really makes me think a lot less of his character. If his neck was too sore to skate this morning with the team, he should NOT be skating this evening with them either.

This really makes me question his motives for not participating in the bag skate this morning. As captain of the team, he should be held to higher standards, but this sort of behaviour is inexcusable for any player of this team. If a player has a legitimate excuse (ie. Staios concussion or Pouliot 4 games in 4 nights) I understand missing the bag skate. A sudden "tweaked neck" resulting in missing the bag skate combined with the ability to play this evening screams selfishness to me.

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01-20-2010, 03:05 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
maybe this is an encouragement to drop the ntc a few players have.
If only it were that easy.

...or is it?

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01-20-2010, 03:12 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by tornado88 View Post
I have major problems with Moreau missing the bag skate and playing in tonights game.

I understand completely that a "tweaked neck" would constitute sitting out of the bag skate, but this should automatically place him in the press box for the game. If his neck is sore, let him rest. We have other players that can play in his stead.

This looks really, really bad for him and really makes me think a lot less of his character. If his neck was too sore to skate this morning with the team, he should NOT be skating this evening with them either.
I'm with you 100%

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01-20-2010, 03:16 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tornado88 View Post
I have major problems with Moreau missing the bag skate and playing in tonights game.

I understand completely that a "tweaked neck" would constitute sitting out of the bag skate, but this should automatically place him in the press box for the game. If his neck is sore, let him rest. We have other players that can play in his stead.

This looks really, really bad for him and really makes me think a lot less of his character. If his neck was too sore to skate this morning with the team, he should NOT be skating this evening with them either.

This really makes me question his motives for not participating in the bag skate this morning. As captain of the team, he should be held to higher standards, but this sort of behaviour is inexcusable for any player of this team. If a player has a legitimate excuse (ie. Staios concussion or Pouliot 4 games in 4 nights) I understand missing the bag skate. A sudden "tweaked neck" resulting in missing the bag skate combined with the ability to play this evening screams selfishness to me.
Doesn't the fact that he won the King Clancy convince you that his neck probably flared up just prior to the bag skate?

Perhaps Moreau should start wearing one of these during the post-game interviews:



That should convince you Doubting Thomases.

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01-20-2010, 03:19 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
So we should negatively impact the team from a cap standpoint with buyouts so we don't risk angering former NHL players? Why can other teams send vets to the minors but we can't?

And the player gets paid no matter where he is. Former NHL vets in the AHL get their whole salary, so they aren't eating anything.
I'm not saying you negatively impact your team. At this point in the season whats the point in sending Staios to the minors. I have no problem buying him out at the end of the year. However in hind sight I would have been cool with sending younger players(last years Penner)to the minors if they under perform there contract.

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01-20-2010, 03:32 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Red Deer Rebel View Post
Doesn't the fact that he won the King Clancy convince you that his neck probably flared up just prior to the bag skate?

Perhaps Moreau should start wearing one of these during the post-game interviews:



That should convince you Doubting Thomases.
If you knew much about neck injuries, you would know that they do not use those collars anymore as they were proven to have no benifit and actually can make issues worse...
(EDIT: This is true for whiplash, I speak from experience both with and without, and questioning doctors the second time through as to why I did not need the collar the second time around)

I would have no problems believing that Moreau has a neck issue if he does not play this evening. That would prove to me that he is having issues with an injury.

The fact that this issue just happened to "flare up" just prior to the worst bag skate (probably) in team history but cleared up in time for him to play tonight raises a multitude of red flags to me. I don't care what sort of trophies he as won, this is too big of a coincidence to be dismissed so easily, as you are willing to do.

The guys who participated in the bag skate should be the guys on the ice this evening because, IMHO, they've earned it. Those who missed it should enjoy some rest.


Last edited by tornado88: 01-20-2010 at 03:35 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old
01-20-2010, 03:33 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
I have a hard time believing he would have missed the game. He'd know if he started pushing it to far and could back off before making it worse. The coaching staff and players would have known about his neck, and I'm sure they would have cut him some slack if he wasn't keeping pace. The whole point is that he should have been there with his teammates.
Unless of course the team doctors advised against it.

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01-20-2010, 03:34 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by czar99 View Post
I'm not saying you negatively impact your team. At this point in the season whats the point in sending Staios to the minors. I have no problem buying him out at the end of the year. However in hind sight I would have been cool with sending younger players(last years Penner)to the minors if they under perform there contract.
This season there is no point. He may still block shots with his face, but Staios's speed and giveawaays are causing him to bleed goals. I want him here this season to help with the tank.

But if we can't move him during the offseason, and assuming we aren't trying to tank again, we must put him in the minors. If we want to compete, we can't have his cap hit affecting us for another 2 years. Thank him for his years of service, offer him a retirement position but in the end if he still wants to play, it's gotta be in the AHL. But because we can't do anything with Horcoff and his 5.5M anchor, we can't allow a 6th d-man to tie up 2.7M in cap hit again. Every million in cap hit matters for us.

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01-20-2010, 03:34 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
Unless of course the team doctors advised against it.
Do you really think the team doctors would advise against a bag skate but then say go play a full contact game?

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01-20-2010, 03:37 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
This season there is no point. He may still block shots with his face, but Staios's speed and giveawaays are causing him to bleed goals. I want him here this season to help with the tank.

But if we can't move him during the offseason, and assuming we aren't trying to tank again, we must put him in the minors. If we want to compete, we can't have his cap hit affecting us for another 2 years. Thank him for his years of service, offer him a retirement position but in the end if he still wants to play, it's gotta be in the AHL. But because we can't do anything with Horcoff and his 5.5M anchor, we can't allow a 6th d-man to tie up 2.7M in cap hit again. Every million in cap hit matters for us.
Staios is off his contract next year, but I really think he'll be moved at the deadline for a player with an expiring contract.

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01-20-2010, 03:38 PM
  #92
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Ethan Moreau is the freakin' captain of this team.

If he doesn't feel like bag skating, he'll play the game on the same day instead.

You guys should be proud of the fact he didn't sacrifice his stamina for tonight.


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01-20-2010, 03:40 PM
  #93
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why punish them because as a collective they suck?

they should make Lowe and Tambo bag skate instead for overpaying "third line" players, inactivity, paying 4 million for a known cripple in net, depending on too many BAD draft picks/trades. same with Pat Quinn. youre the one who took the job without even evaluating the roster or knowing ANY of the players. Mac-T warned everyone on his exit interview and ANYONE with a brain knew last season that this group of players couldnt execute a game of hockey. do your homework, codger. "back in my day." yeah yeah yeah, everyones heard stories out of their old man and by about the third word you stop listening. keep talking old geezer, we know you know it all.

"YOU GUYS SHOULD BE ASHAMED THAT WE'RE THE DUMB ONES! OK?!"

not saying the players dont deserve it, but rhetorically, how about punish the morons who put this Circus of Turds together if theyre all about "accountability" and butt spankings?
This post is awesome.

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01-20-2010, 03:44 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
Do you really think the team doctors would advise against a bag skate but then say go play a full contact game?
30 hours later?

Yes.

If you get a kink in your neck, it's very possible to go from nearly imobile to gaining almost your full range of motion back within a 24-48 hour period, especially with the proper therapy (which he had access to).

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01-20-2010, 03:44 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by tornado88 View Post
If you knew much about neck injuries, you would know that they do not use those collars anymore as they were proven to have no benifit and actually can make issues worse...
(EDIT: This is true for whiplash, I speak from experience both with and without, and questioning doctors the second time through as to why I did not need the collar the second time around)

I would have no problems believing that Moreau has a neck issue if he does not play this evening. That would prove to me that he is having issues with an injury.

The fact that this issue just happened to "flare up" just prior to the worst bag skate (probably) in team history but cleared up in time for him to play tonight raises a multitude of red flags to me. I don't care what sort of trophies he as won, this is too big of a coincidence to be dismissed so easily, as you are willing to do.

The guys who participated in the bag skate should be the guys on the ice this evening because, IMHO, they've earned it. Those who missed it should enjoy some rest.
I was being a bit facetious with my post.

I also am a bit suspicious regarding this whole series of events, and I certainly don't blame people for questioning it.

In fact, I thought the wording coming from the Oilers - he "tweaked his neck" - sounded a bit odd. It doesn't exactly paint a picture of disabling injury. I imagine most players have an assortment of bumps and bruises as they go through the season, but still manage to get to practice.

In any event, since I take the view that Moreau should be a healthy scratch on this team, the neck issue doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

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01-20-2010, 03:47 PM
  #96
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Maybe Moreau tweaked his neck while sucking the hind banana! His neck is probably better now

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01-20-2010, 03:50 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
30 hours later?

Yes.

If you get a kink in your neck, it's very possible to go from nearly imobile to gaining almost your full range of motion back within a 24-48 hour period, especially with the proper therapy (which he had access to).
What do you need to move your neck for in a bag skate it's straight up and down the ice. If he had a kinked neck where hes immobile then thats one thing but from the sounds of it he just had pain.

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01-20-2010, 03:55 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
Do you really think the team doctors would advise against a bag skate but then say go play a full contact game?
It isn't at all unreasonable to think that it was do the bag skate or play the game, but don't do both.

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01-20-2010, 03:56 PM
  #99
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What do you need to move your neck for in a bag skate it's straight up and down the ice. If he had a kinked neck where hes immobile then thats one thing but from the sounds of it he just had pain.
Any kind of physical activity is hard on the neck when it is injured. Including skating in circles or back and forth from one line to the next.

It more than likely came down to a choice of playing the game or going for a bag skate.

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01-20-2010, 04:01 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
What do you need to move your neck for in a bag skate it's straight up and down the ice.
Are you serious? Have you ever hurt your neck before? It's hard to do much of anything, especially if it results in headaches, dizzyness, and even issues breathing ... all of which can all result from just a minor muscle tweak in your neck.

Quote:
If he had a kinked neck where hes immobile then thats one thing but from the sounds of it he just had pain.
By the sounds of it, it was a tweaked neck. What you read into that is your own interpretation.

I wasn't suggesting that it was immobile, I was just bringing up the point that you can go from being immobile to getting almost your full range of motion back within a short period of time.

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