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All Things Kovalchuk

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Old
01-25-2010, 05:26 PM
  #201
Johnny Utah
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Waddell was done a long time ago...The Tkachuk deal was awful, they have no one except Armstrong left over from the Hossa trade and the Cobourn deal was awful.

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01-26-2010, 04:21 AM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fropitar View Post
My Ideal situation (Assuming we're not going to win the cup this year):

1. The Kings make the playoffs and get a couple of rounds worth of experience

2. ALT Doesn't want to trade away Kovy in hopes of signing him.

3. Kings pay Kovy Hossa money and add him to the roster without having to create a hole via trading.

4. Win the Cup next year

5. and the year after that.

Lets get it done.

Stay the course!!!!!

Will cost too much for Kovy, so dont trade for him this season. Attempt to sign him as a free agent this summer. marleau as a backup if we cant get kovy. Marleau might actually be a better fit and will come with a cheaper price tag so it is hard to pick. Just do whatever you have to to sign one of them in the offseason.

There is no trade that is "POSSIBLE" that would improve the kings enough to be legit contenders for the cup this year but if you do make a trade it needs to be for a RW. Maybe Stoll and Purcell/2nd for Penner. Stoll goes back to EDM under contract, EDM saves money plus gets a great prospect/pick and Kings get a true RW that is signed for two more years.

Defense and goaltending is fine as is.

So rest of year after deadline looks like this:

Smyth-Kopitar-Simmonds
Frolov-Handzus-Brown
Parse-Richardson-Penner
Ivanans-Moller-Segal

Doughty-Scuderi
Greene-ODonnel
Johnson-Jones

Quick
Ersberg

Harrold is extra guy
If williams comes back then he takes segal's place and parse drops to fourth line and rest of lines are shuffled.

In the offseason I try and trade Frolov's rights for a low low pick. If not, let him walk and try and sign him as a third option if we cant get Kovy or Marleau.

Ivanans, Odonnel, Jones are gone.


Next season looks like this:


kovy-kopitar-williams
Penner-Handzus-Brown
Smyth-Richardson-Simmonds
Parse-Lewis/Moller-Westgarth

or

Smyth-Kopitar-Williams
Penner-Marleau-Brown
Moller-Handzus-Simmonds
Parse-Richardson-Westgarth

Doughty-Scuderi
Greene-Johnson
Drewiske-Voynov

Bernier
Quick


I like Marleau over Kovy. Better fit now and for the future. When Smyth contract is up, Marleau moves to left wing with Kopitar and Loktionov takes over at center. When Handzus is gone, Schenn takes his place. Williams will also be gone. Replace him with free agent or resign him based on production.


11/12 season looks like this:

Marleau-Kopitar-Simmonds
Moller-Loktionov-Brown
Penner-Schenn-Williams/Free agent (Langenbrunner)
Parse-Lewis-Westgarth

Doughty-Johnson
Voynov-Scuderi
Greene-Hickey/Teubert/Drewiske

Bernier
Quick


That looks like a team built to compete for the cup for the next ten years.....

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Old
01-26-2010, 06:02 PM
  #203
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Regardless of what happens at this trade deadline I'm pretty confident that Kovi will not be with the Kings at the start of next season. He'll be on a team that's prepared to spend too much money to get him and I don't think that Dean will.

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Old
01-26-2010, 06:15 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrydoso View Post
Regardless of what happens at this trade deadline I'm pretty confident that Kovi will not be with the Kings at the start of next season. He'll be on a team that's prepared to spend too much money to get him and I don't think that Dean will.
I think DL will make an offer as high as 8 years 72 million or 10 years 85 million. DL will spend the money on a guy he feels like is the perfect fit and I BELIEVE he views Kovalchuk as that guy.

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Old
01-26-2010, 07:10 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrydoso View Post
Regardless of what happens at this trade deadline I'm pretty confident that Kovi will not be with the Kings at the start of next season. He'll be on a team that's prepared to spend too much money to get him and I don't think that Dean will.
It depends on DL's outlook of Kovy. He was prepared to offer the decade deal to Hossa, but Hossa in the end wasn't interested in LA as much as he was in Chicago, but Dean is on record to being open to discuss that type of deal or that specific caliber of player.

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Old
01-26-2010, 07:19 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingz4life View Post
I think DL will make an offer as high as 8 years 72 million or 10 years 85 million. DL will spend the money on a guy he feels like is the perfect fit and I BELIEVE he views Kovalchuk as that guy.
I think DL, in keeping with his theme of building a year in year out winning team, isn't ready to make this big move yet. With the salary cap in mind he may hold onto his options for the current roster a bit longer relying instead on the character building experience of making some noise in this years playoffs. If nothing else DL has proven that he is patient.

So my position is clear: I'd jump for joy if DL was able to bring in Kovi, he's a deadly piece. I just think DL has been a value shopper in a market full of economic rejects.


Last edited by Hendrydoso: 01-26-2010 at 07:24 PM. Reason: more stuff to say
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Old
01-26-2010, 07:49 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrydoso View Post
I think DL, in keeping with his theme of building a year in year out winning team, isn't ready to make this big move yet. With the salary cap in mind he may hold onto his options for the current roster a bit longer relying instead on the character building experience of making some noise in this years playoffs. If nothing else DL has proven that he is patient.

So my position is clear: I'd jump for joy if DL was able to bring in Kovi, he's a deadly piece. I just think DL has been a value shopper in a market full of economic rejects.
I completly understand what your saying. I just feel this is the right time to make this move. Patience is a virtue and he has shown that but a Kovalchuk type player isn't going to be available every year and I think he understands that.

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Old
01-26-2010, 07:54 PM
  #208
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Not very nice things to say about Kovlachuk from another group of analysts.

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Old
01-26-2010, 08:02 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingz4life View Post
I completly understand what your saying. I just feel this is the right time to make this move. Patience is a virtue and he has shown that but a Kovalchuk type player isn't going to be available every year and I think he understands that.
I think that is why in that interview today he said "When that right player comes available it will be very urgent." Pretty cut and dry right there. Is Kovy that player? I think he is.

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Old
01-27-2010, 11:41 AM
  #210
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From Rich about Kovalchuk:

Quote:
Since this is an interesting topic, and it’s already dominating every post anyway, here’s what I know about the Ilya Kovalchuk situation. I’ve been holding off until I could actually produce something halfway helpful.

– Atlanta is, without question, now exploring options to trade Kovalchuk.

– Atlanta is talking to the Kings, but certainly not exclusively and not “around the clock.” The Kings certainly have high interest.

– So far, there has been one offer made by the Kings, and one offer/request made by the Thrashers of the Kings. No, I can’t disclose the players involved. Yes, I know that will anger some of you. No, I’m still not going to disclose them. That information was provided in confidence by only one source.

– At least so far, the Thrashers are holding firm that no teams will be allowed to negotiate an extension with Kovalchuk, making him a rental player. The Kings would look at Kovalchuk as a rental, but wouldn’t be willing to give up as much.

– The issue, for the Kings and other teams, is going to be the willingness to give up players currently on the NHL roster. Atlanta isn’t necessarily looking for a prospects-and-picks rebuild, a la Dean Lombardi. They have franchise viability issues, and they need to keep their NHL team looking reasonably strong.

– Teams that are closer to being Stanley Cup contenders — and within that, particularly teams that are staring down salary-cap issues — would be far more likely than the Kings to give up current NHL players for a Kovalchuk rental.

– The KHL is a looming, real possibility for Kovalchuk next season, which makes every GM nervous.

– There’s a “trade freeze” in place during the Olympic break, but GMs can still talk to each other. The freeze will be lifted after the Olympics, and the trade deadline is March 3.

That’s about all I can tell you at this point. I’ll stay on it as best as possible. I would urge you to follow legit reporters such as Pierre LeBrun of ESPN.com, Elliotte Friedman and the Hockey Night in Canada crew, the TSN guys, Hockey News, etc., and to stay away from the fiction writing. So feel free to use this thread to talk about Kovalchuk to your heart’s desire. Practice is at 1 p.m. Eastern time today…

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Old
01-27-2010, 11:58 AM
  #211
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Hammond's update this morning should prove that the Kings will not get Kovalchuk before July 1st. Dean will not trade roster players for a rental. Atlanta is being stupid by not letting other teams negotiate with Kovalchuk before the trade. Atlanta would get significantly better offers if a team could sign Kovalchuk long term.

I could see Chicago or Detroit making a play for Kovalchuk as a rental. I would think Atlanta would want to move him to the West.

http://lakingsinsider.com/?p=3606

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Old
01-27-2010, 12:15 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Hammond's update this morning should prove that the Kings will not get Kovalchuk before July 1st. Dean will not trade roster players for a rental. Atlanta is being stupid by not letting other teams negotiate with Kovalchuk before the trade. Atlanta would get significantly better offers if a team could sign Kovalchuk long term.

I could see Chicago or Detroit making a play for Kovalchuk as a rental. I would think Atlanta would want to move him to the West.

http://lakingsinsider.com/?p=3606
if this is true, I hope DL is getting on the phone with Carolina(Whitney).

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Old
01-27-2010, 12:47 PM
  #213
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I am not high on a Kovy trade. People throw names around like Frolov or Purcell or Parse, which would not interest Atlanta (other than maybe as a throw-in). If you give up roster players like Johnson, Stoll or Simmonds (say 2 of the 3), I don't see how adding Kovy makes you much if any better. Since we are not a legitimate Cup contender either way, it makes little sense to trade assets for a rental. There will be other options in free agency and Kovy in fact could be an option still on July 1.

We are a playoff team at this point. I would add a couple of role players with playoff experience to solidify our position. Ironically, Kovy has little playoff experience and has obviously had no impact in the post-season in his career.

Now, if DL could get Kovy without giving up roster players, then that might make sense since we have more prospects than we will have positions for and there is no reason to suspect that our ability to draft good players is going to diminish. But Waddell is trying to save his job, not do what is in the team's best interests in the long term.

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Old
01-27-2010, 12:50 PM
  #214
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No mention of Kings: http://www.usatoday.com/community/pr...c-b4338dc434be

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Old
01-27-2010, 12:53 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Hammond's update this morning should prove that the Kings will not get Kovalchuk before July 1st. Dean will not trade roster players for a rental. Atlanta is being stupid by not letting other teams negotiate with Kovalchuk before the trade. Atlanta would get significantly better offers if a team could sign Kovalchuk long term.

I could see Chicago or Detroit making a play for Kovalchuk as a rental. I would think Atlanta would want to move him to the West.

http://lakingsinsider.com/?p=3606
Strongly disagree. I think that this just gives some credence to the thought that IK is looking to break the bank if he signs before 7/1. If DW knows that any extension is extremely low probability, all he does by letting other GM's talk to IK's agent is confirm their fears that this is 100% a rental deal. By saying "no talking to IK's agent prior to the deal" other GM's might still hope that he's willing to sign an extension.

If, hypothetically speaking, during negotations, IK's agent said "The only thing that will get us to sign before 7/1 is $120M over 12 years. And that applies to the Thrashers, or anyone else." If DW believes thats true and not just a negotiating ploy- he gains nothing by letting other GM's talk prior to the deal."

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Old
01-27-2010, 12:55 PM
  #216
Sydor25
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All GMs are going to assume that Kovalchuk is a rental only. If a team could negotiate with Kovalchuk and had a long term deal in place, then the players made available in a trade would be much better.

No GM is going to "hope" that they can sign Kovalchuk and increase their offer.

Waddell is just trying to save his job, he's not looking to the future for the Atlanta franchise. This is just like the horrible trades that Taylor made his last year trying to save his job.

He should be going after multiple 1st round picks and blue chip prospects instead of roster players.

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01-27-2010, 01:14 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
All GMs are going to assume that Kovalchuk is a rental only. If a team could negotiate with Kovalchuk and had a long term deal in place, then the players made available in a trade would be much better.

No GM is going to "hope" that they can sign Kovalchuk and increase their offer.

Waddell is just trying to save his job, he's not looking to the future for the Atlanta franchise. This is just like the horrible trades that Taylor made his last year trying to save his job.

He should be going after multiple 1st round picks and blue chip prospects instead of roster players
.
It is not about Waddell trying to save his job, it is about the financial stability of the franchise. They need something coming back to keep the fans, they cannot afford to subscribe to a Lombardi type rebuild since by the time that would pay dividends the team would no longer be in Atlanta.

Personally I have no interest in trading a Moller, Tuebert, Hickey, Simmonds, Bernier or anything that it would cost to get Kovy in a rental role. As great a player that he is, I do not think Kovy is the player you build a championship team around. Too much of a me first player. I would much rather wait to the offseason and acquire a Marleau.

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Old
01-27-2010, 01:53 PM
  #218
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Matthew Barry is saying Stoll is one of the names he is hearing....Lombardi won't part with Johnson...and he better not part with Simmonds...

Honestly, if the Kings can't negotiate with him, it's no worth it...Terry Murray said it himself that next year we will be even better...might as well wait till the summer.

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01-27-2010, 01:53 PM
  #219
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As tempting as he is, like many here I would be very hesitant to give up multiple young players for Kovalchuk short-term.

I'm of the firm belief that bringing in superstars doesn't mean you are going to win a cup. Look at San Jose, they have loads of talent. Ottawa was stacked for years and didn't win. It may get you into the playoffs with favorable match-ups, but that's all it guarantees.

What wins is team commitment to the defensive end and depth. The reason Detroit and New Jersey are so successful is their teams commit to defense on all their lines. The driving force behind this, IMO, is that to win in the playoffs, you have to win on the road. When you are in another building, they get the last change and the match-ups - they are throwing their best players out there against the line of their choosing. The only way to combat this is to have 4 lines who play very capable defense (or at least 3, most coaches don't like to send their stars out against the typical 4th line with the bigger bodies who may punish them). This is exactly why I love the way the Kings are being built. I would feel comfortable enough with the other teams best line against any of the 3 lines we have been rolling the last few games. This is the case because of the Kings depth of solid young players. We've suffered for years as fans to be able to get these players, and I don't want to see a batch of them dropped for a single guy who may only be here for a few months.

Kovalchuk for the rest of the year would help the Kings and wouldn't upset their building only if they can get him for a reasonable price. If they allow the Kings to talk to Ilya and they can lock him up, that's a different story however and the Kings can fill some holes next year for a stretch of serious runs. If he's signed, there are ways to work with salaries, teams are always going to find ways to beat the cap, or at least dance around it. Unfortunately, I think the chances of seeing Ilya in a Kings uniform before July are very small unless the team gets to talk with him and his agent first.

I'll tell you one thing though, it feels great to see the Kings be buyers after the last 8 or so years and to see them being mentioned on the main board when people predict their next 3 cup winners. Hell, it's exciting that DL is even entertaining a deal for Kovalchuk, it means we are at the end of the tunnel and have much better things to look forward to.

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Old
01-27-2010, 02:01 PM
  #220
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no deal no deal! this kinda of trade could ruin the kings. if you can't sign Kovalchuk to a extension right now then there's no point in trading for him. Hes' not the type of rental we need. We're already a playoff team, which is what our goal was at the start of the season. What we need is a veteran who has seen it all and has maybe even won a cup. A Ray Whitney type. Not a diva type like player like Kovalchuk who could break our team chemistry (as a rental) and cost us major players on our current team. Not worth it. no way no how.

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01-27-2010, 02:02 PM
  #221
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I don't quite understand why Waddell won't let other gms negotiate an extension with Kovy. It would seem to benefit ATL.

In any case, if Kovy is going to be a rental, then I would prefer to pursue other options such as Whitney, Hagman, Torres etc. That is unless, we can get him for very VERY cheap.

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Old
01-27-2010, 02:02 PM
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
If, hypothetically speaking, during negotations, IK's agent said "The only thing that will get us to sign before 7/1 is $120M over 12 years. And that applies to the Thrashers, or anyone else." If DW believes thats true and not just a negotiating ploy- he gains nothing by letting other GM's talk prior to the deal."
True but don't you think any GM who is going to make an offer is going to assume he is a rental and make their offer accordingly? I doubt somebody is going to offer the farm without getting a contract in place. Look to Hossa and other players of a similar caliber that were deadline rentals. He'll be lucky to get anything more than a few a top prospects and a first rounder or two... maybe a decent roster payer in lieu of a prospect/pick. The point still remains, what team is going to be willing to part with roster players to get him? I still maintain that the Kings will not be offering anything substantial in terms of roster players. I also don't see them parting with more than a 1st round (2011), Moller and maybe Hickey/Teubert. I highly doubt you'll see Schenn moved.

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01-27-2010, 02:06 PM
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Matthew Barry is saying Stoll is one of the names he is hearing....Lombardi won't part with Johnson...and he better not part with Simmonds...

Honestly, if the Kings can't negotiate with him, it's no worth it...Terry Murray said it himself that next year we will be even better...might as well wait till the summer.
Couldn't agree more.. I'd part with Stoll, Moller and maybe a few prospects not named Schenn but I honestly think they are better off going the route of grizzled veteran which is much cheaper and in the end, will probably yield the same result.

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01-27-2010, 02:30 PM
  #224
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Perhaps a 3rd team that IS looking to unload roster players for picks/prospects may be brought in to bridge the gap. Entirely possible.

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Old
01-27-2010, 02:30 PM
  #225
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Pick up Whitney and/or Hagman and wait till July 1st for a shot at Kovalchuk or Marleau etc... I mean, it isn't that bad, we know Kovy is likely to hit free agency and that we have a lot to offer, but for now, just stick to your guns and hope that Atlanta doesn't get the offers they are seeking for and changes their mind, if not, tell Waddell that you are sorry you can't get a deal done and that you look forward to getting him for free on July 1st.

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