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Old
01-22-2010, 11:52 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by imayagainknowanton View Post
Okay, so we get Wideman. Then Wideman has a good season and we decide "Oh, we can't afford him either!" and move him.

Then we are back to square one.

Now what? Just an endless loop of players coming in and out?

Why in the world would we not be willing to sign Pitkanen for $5.5M a year, but we'll sign Tuomo ****ing Ruutu and his career high 54 points gained playing with Staal for $3.8M/yr?
That is where picking up a #1 and Barker and prospects comes into play... We are a SMALL market team... We will get outbid, I'm sorry if you don't see that... Also Ruutu and $3.8 and Cole and $3 is part of the reason that we have NO SHOT to keep Joni...

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01-22-2010, 11:53 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by imayagainknowanton View Post

Why in the world would we not be willing to sign Pitkanen for $5.5M a year, but we'll sign Tuomo ****ing Ruutu and his career high 54 points gained playing with Staal for $3.8M/yr?
Because he can hit people.

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01-22-2010, 11:53 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
We will do neither, so I don't know why you are even mentioning that... No way we are giving Joni 4-5 years at $5-6 mil... Have some of you lost your minds in remembering what this team does salary wise? We have 2 long term big contracts, we will not have a third
He's already making $4.5M next season. Is $500,000 more per year going to break the bank?

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01-22-2010, 11:54 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by imayagainknowanton View Post
I see no #1 defenseman in that group, either. But yet somebody in there is going to be playing #1 minutes, are they not? And that somebody is soon going to have to be paid #1 $ from someone, yes? And then they leave and we repeat the process over and over again?
Sigh, you're right, let's just give Joni a Marian Hossa contract and be done...

I'm done talking to you about Joni ever.... You have no clue about the economics of our team or the true value of Joni... You over value him IMO, I under value him in yours, no need to talk about it any more

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01-22-2010, 11:55 AM
  #80
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http://www.canoe.ca/HockeyCarolinaAr...jul24_hur.html

we are not a small hockey market team!
Do you remember this?

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01-22-2010, 11:56 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by caniacho View Post
Because he can hit people.
Leading your team in hits as a power forward (well not after injuries) does add value to your contract... There are not a lot of players like him out there... Agreed... I would have liked a slightly cheaper contract, but I keep expecting him to meet those expectations from about 5 years ago

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01-22-2010, 11:57 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
That is where picking up a #1 and Barker and prospects comes into play... We are a SMALL market team... We will get outbid, I'm sorry if you don't see that... Also Ruutu and $3.8 and Cole and $3 is part of the reason that we have NO SHOT to keep Joni...
The point is that there is no #1 in that group either and that we will have to shell out money to keep THOSE non-#1 defensemen at some point. So what do we do then? Trade them for more picks and prospects and continue the endless rebuild?

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01-22-2010, 11:59 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caniacho View Post
http://www.canoe.ca/HockeyCarolinaAr...jul24_hur.html

we are not a small hockey market team!
Do you remember this?
I'm just sad Oleg and Sandis never got a chance to be paired together

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01-22-2010, 12:00 PM
  #84
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wow... i'm for wideman, if we trade joni...

but wideman, gleason, barker, mcbain, alberts and carson as a top6... god, this is disaster. pathetic....

the best option is... get a cam fowler... give him two season and he will be #1.

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01-22-2010, 12:01 PM
  #85
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FYI, I had no idea



In 2009 after a few years away from the game, Sandis signed and is currently playing for Dinamo Riga as a captain for the first time in his career. In October, 2009 it was cofirmed that Ozolinsh has shoulder injury and in November he will be under operation and it's expected him to be without play for the rest year. Ozolinsh also confirmed that he will not return to national team in Olympics 2010. In January, 2010 Ozolinsh was selected to play on the starting roster for the Jaromír Jágr team in the KHL All-Star game

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01-22-2010, 12:03 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by caniacho View Post
wow... i'm for wideman, if we trade joni...

but wideman, gleason, barker, mcbain, alberts and carson as a top6... god, this is disaster. pathetic....

the best option is... get a cam fowler... give him two season and he will be #1.
Add in a 2nd tier FA as a 3-4 and let McBain develop another year and we are already better defensively than this year... Of course I want to get a Cam Fowler as well, but do you think that is actually going to happen? Having young McBain and Carson in the organization is not as bad as you think... Sure, not for next year, but 2-4 years down the road, I believe that has the making of a nice core group... Sure we need one to develop to a higher ceiling or get a Cam Fowler or sign a top pair guy... But if those three end up in the 3-6 role in 2-4 years, I think we'll be OK there


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01-22-2010, 12:03 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caniacho View Post
wow... i'm for wideman, if we trade joni...

but wideman, gleason, barker, mcbain, alberts and carson as a top6... god, this is disaster. pathetic....

the best option is... get a cam fowler... give him two season and he will be #1.
No, it's a dream defense. Completely free of Soft Lazy Euro Joanna.

No Elite #1 defenseman in the group, but at least we don't have delusions of any of those players being Elite #1 Defensemen and thus we won't get into so much arguments on the board about how one of the defensemen isn't scoring a PPG and going +40.

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01-22-2010, 12:05 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
Add in a 2nd tier FA as a 3-4 and let McBain develop another year and we are already better defensively than this year...
You are telling me that I don't understand the economics of the team, but you are bringing Barker in at $3.125, Wideman at $4M and a second-pairing UFA defensemen in (probably at least $2.5M or so)? Where is all this money coming from?

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01-22-2010, 12:15 PM
  #89
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I think Dalpe is our future #3 and we really don't know how much he will develop... I REALLY like what I have been hearing about him... Having young Dalpe, McBain, and Carson in the organization is not as bad as you think...
Dalpe is a forward.

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01-22-2010, 12:22 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by DaleCooper View Post
Dalpe is a forward.
****, I meant to only talk about Carson and McBain... Then was going to mention Dalpe, Tlusty and Boychuk up front for the future and was too friggin stupid to separate the two thoughts and merged them.. LOL... I was really trying to say that all around we have some guys up front and in the D that are going to make players, so we don't have a TON of rebuilding to do, sure there is some work, but if 2 of these five hit their ceilings, we aren't in as bad a shape as one would believe...


Getting 2 #1 picks this year and Wideman, to me is a step in the right direction with the team... That's all I was trying to put together... Anton had me typing too fast...

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01-22-2010, 12:40 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caniacho View Post
wow...

but wideman, gleason, barker, mcbain, alberts and carson as a top6... god, this is disaster. pathetic....
I agree. Bruin's fans can't stand Wideman right now as his play this year is way down from last year.....and Barker hasn't really shown anything in Chicago. None of those players are a legit top pairing. Even Gleason is really a #3 that shows some flashes of being a top pairing.

That D (or some variation of it) is a disaster. The good news, is we'd probably get the #1 pick again next year.

edit: Also, imagine our breakout next year if we had that D. We'd never get the puck up the ice.

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01-22-2010, 12:43 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by ncpuckhog View Post
I agree. Bruin's fans can't stand Wideman right now as his play this year is way down from last year.....and Barker hasn't really shown anything in Chicago. None of those players are a legit top pairing. Even Gleason is really a #3 that shows some flashes of being a top pairing.

That D (or some variation of it) is a disaster. The good news, is we'd probably get the #1 pick again next year.
You think

Wideman-Gleason
Barker-FA
Alberts-Carson

is worse than

Joni-Gleason
Ward-Alberts
Carson-Wallin

Are you ****ing kidding me? Ward and Wallin are both getting top 4 minutes almost right now... That is Pathetic... I did not say that the top one I posted is great, but it is certainly better than what we have this year... If we don't make a move for Wideman or Barker then we have this next year

Joni-Gleason

then

Alberts, McBain, and Carson


We need a player like Wideman... I think he's having a down year, but last year I thought he was great... No matter what happens, we have to trade for a D man... Barker has struggled, but his ceiling is high... Get him in here for two years, if he doesn't develop, then so be it, you move on... I think the risk reward for Wideman and Barker is good for us... I can understand the hesitation to pick them up though... If Joni had two more years on his contract, I wouldn't think of moving him... But, truth be told, he's the most valuable piece we have to build for the future... I'm not sure we compete next year anyways, so moving him for the RIGHT deal is the right option to me... If we had a shot to make the playoffs this year, I wouldn't move him either... Trust me, I wouldn't give him away...

If you don't like the Wideman deal, OK, I can see that, but we have to make some moves that brings us back talent and or picks... The four players that will do this for us is Corvo, Cullen, Whitney, and Joni... That's also a lot of salary to dump for the last few months...


Last edited by Sasha Cares: 01-22-2010 at 12:51 PM.
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01-22-2010, 12:47 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
You think

Wideman-Gleason
Barker-FA
Alberts-Carson

is worse than

Joni-Gleason
Ward-Alberts
Carson-Wallin

Are you ****ing kidding me?
No, I am not saying that..but a) that's not how we started the season this year and b) look where that D has gotten us this year.

How we started this season is:

Pitkanen-Gleason
Corvo-Ward
Wallin - Alberts

Pitkanen >> Wideman
Corvo >> Barker
Gleason = Gleason
Alberts = Alberts
Carson isn't much better than Wallin
and the "FA" you mention..who knows..I assume he'll be better than Ward.

The Defense you propose is worse than we started this season and we are last in the league. That defense you propose is terrible.

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01-22-2010, 12:48 PM
  #94
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I definitely think Joni would take a discount here. Before Edmonton traded him here weren't there rumors of him asking for something insane, like 6 million(I don't remember the exact number) then signed with us for a reasonable 4 million per year.

We begged and pleaded for a number 1 defense men for 10 years. Is he Ray Bourque in his prime? No, but he eats a ton of minutes for us and plays in every situation effectively which we have never had. Now that we have him we want to trade him away for over paid spare parts like Cam Barker? No thanks.

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01-22-2010, 12:50 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
You think

Wideman-Gleason
Barker-FA
Alberts-Carson

is worse than

Joni-Gleason
Ward-Alberts
Carson-Wallin

Are you ****ing kidding me?
Barker would be a fine replacement for Corvo. Wideman would not be a good replacement for Pitkanen. Pitkanen >>> Wideman and Barker

This team has never had a true #1 guy, we finally get one, and rumours of him being moved. Pisses me off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT
But, truth be told, he's the most valuable piece we have to build for the future...
Joni is 25 years old. He should be part of the future, not a piece to build for the future.

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01-22-2010, 12:54 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by caniac247 View Post
Barker would be a fine replacement for Corvo. Wideman would not be a good replacement for Pitkanen. Pitkanen >>> Wideman and Barker

This team has never had a true #1 guy, we finally get one, and rumours of him being moved. Pisses me off.
Given their performance to date and how I'd expect them to perform next year, I would say that Corvo is a better option the Barker. Maybe a few years down the road..but right now, Corvo is much better.

Corvo has had to play top minutes and against top players here in Carolina. Barker has never had to do that.

I agree though that Pitkanen is much better than Wideman.

The rumours don't piss me off. I take them for what they are...rumours. Life's too short to get pissed off about that

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01-22-2010, 12:55 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by caniac247 View Post
Barker would be a fine replacement for Corvo. Wideman would not be a good replacement for Pitkanen. Pitkanen >>> Wideman and Barker

This team has never had a true #1 guy, we finally get one, and rumours of him being moved. Pisses me off.
That's my point, he's not a #1... he a top pairing guy when he's paired with the right player... We don't have that... I look around the league and see #1 Dmen and I don't think Joni stacks up with them... He's certainly a top playmaker and puck mover from the blueline, that I will give you, but he has pretty large deficiencies in his own end....

I guess some of you and I look for different types of players to be a #1 D... That must be what it is...

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01-22-2010, 12:56 PM
  #98
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"Hi guyz."

Fowler- McBain... the next Keith- Seabrook.

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01-22-2010, 12:57 PM
  #99
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I just have to ask this:

What makes people think that Pitkanen would be any harder to sign then Wideman? Both make similar money right now and both are the same age. Both regarded as offensive defensemen that are borderline #1s.

If anything I would argue that Joni would re-sign cheaper then Wideman would because of the Team Finland connection going on with Ruutu and Jussi here now and with Kivisto likely coming in over the next 3 years.

I'm all for adding Fowler in the draft if we end up with the #3 pick either way.

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01-22-2010, 12:59 PM
  #100
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I am not proposing that defense btw... It's one option... I think Barker's worth the risk... I do... I also think he's better than some do here... Wideman was just an option because I think Boston is dealing their own #1 pick this year to beef up... I think they will want Whitney, but that won't be enough to get that pick... Would Whitney and Corvo be enough to get that pick and have them throw in a D or C prospect? I don't know...

If we can Keep Joni and someone get another top 3-4 dman with top pairing future potential to compliment Joni, then I'd love to keep him...

I just see Joni walking because some team in need of a puck moving borderline #1 is going to throw huge money at him... Just a feeling though... Quality passing top pairing guys are getting PAID right now... Almost scary money to be honest

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