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Old
04-24-2004, 06:09 AM
  #1
Prussian_Blue
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A question...

The Rangers have three picks (26, 36 and 37) in the top end of the draft, correct?

Would there be any interest in trading those picks for Tkachuk (or Demitra) and the Blues' 17th overall pick?

All opinions are welcome.

Thanks,

PrussianBlue

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Old
04-24-2004, 06:39 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrussianBlue
The Rangers have three picks (26, 36 and 37) in the top end of the draft, correct?

Would there be any interest in trading those picks for Tkachuk (or Demitra) and the Blues' 17th overall pick?

All opinions are welcome.

Thanks,

PrussianBlue
NO! NO! NO!

THAT IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE RANGERS IN THE 1ST PLACE, TRADING PICKS AND PROSPECTS FOR AGING VETERANS PAST THERE PRIME. ITS TIME TO DRAFT AND BUILD A CORE GROUP. SORRY PRUSSIAN, THE BLUES NEED TO FIND ANOTHER SUCKER.

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04-24-2004, 07:17 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717
NO! NO! NO!

THAT IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE RANGERS IN THE 1ST PLACE, TRADING PICKS AND PROSPECTS FOR AGING VETERANS PAST THERE PRIME. ITS TIME TO DRAFT AND BUILD A CORE GROUP. SORRY PRUSSIAN, THE BLUES NEED TO FIND ANOTHER SUCKER.
But they have... his name is Glen Sather.... D'oh!

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Old
04-24-2004, 10:11 AM
  #4
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Sure! Why not! There is no doubt in my mind we could turn Demitra into a 50 point scorer.

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04-24-2004, 10:58 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrussianBlue
The Rangers have three picks (26, 36 and 37) in the top end of the draft, correct?

Would there be any interest in trading those picks for Tkachuk (or Demitra) and the Blues' 17th overall pick?

All opinions are welcome.

Thanks,

PrussianBlue

Demitra and the 17th overall for the 26th, 36th, and 46th (assuming we get it for Umberger) I would do.

17th >> 26th
Demitra >> 36th + 46th

Demitra is one of the league's most underrated offensive players. Still in his prime at 29, he's capable of a point per game and has a good attitude on top of that.

If everyone is so concerned with giving up two second round picks for him -- think of it this way -- would you have moved Malakhov and Kovalev for Demitra and Balej? I would have.

(Malakhov fetched a 2nd, Kovalev fetched Balej plus a 2nd, which equals two seconds, hence Demitra for two 2nd's in a supposedly weak draft)

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04-24-2004, 12:21 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetchie
Demitra and the 17th overall for the 26th, 36th, and 46th (assuming we get it for Umberger) I would do.

17th >> 26th
Demitra >> 36th + 46th

Demitra is one of the league's most underrated offensive players. Still in his prime at 29, he's capable of a point per game and has a good attitude on top of that.

If everyone is so concerned with giving up two second round picks for him -- think of it this way -- would you have moved Malakhov and Kovalev for Demitra and Balej? I would have.

(Malakhov fetched a 2nd, Kovalev fetched Balej plus a 2nd, which equals two seconds, hence Demitra for two 2nd's in a supposedly weak draft)

I think Demitra and Jagr on the same line would be great, Demitra plays well at centre. Maybe he can be the playmaker/scorer we have been looking for. Demitra Jagr and maybe Rolston on the LW would be a good line then u got Holik Lundmark and maybe Josh Green on line 2. Or u can put Balej on the 2ed line and Green on the 3rd. One guy that id sign as a ufa dman would be Todd Simpson. He is big, physical and can clear the crease.

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04-24-2004, 12:34 PM
  #7
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I wouldnt make that deal. If Sather is as serious about rebuilding as I hope he is, the last thing that should be on his mind is trying to make the playoffs. Theres no need for Demitra or Tkachuk for a team thats rebuilding. I'd much rather hold on to the two 2nd rounders or use them as trade bait to move up in the draft, not to acquire a top notch player. Why bring in Demitra when that spot should be going to a deserving youngster?

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04-24-2004, 01:26 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr4life5186
I wouldnt make that deal. If Sather is as serious about rebuilding as I hope he is, the last thing that should be on his mind is trying to make the playoffs. Theres no need for Demitra or Tkachuk for a team thats rebuilding. I'd much rather hold on to the two 2nd rounders or use them as trade bait to move up in the draft, not to acquire a top notch player. Why bring in Demitra when that spot should be going to a deserving youngster?

There's nothing wrong with contending while bringing up young players. Colorado did a fine job of that -- see Hejduk, Drury, Tanguay, Svatos, Deadmarsh. Ask Detroit about Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

As long as the team isn't loaded with 30+ year olds, mixing up some youth with veterans allows for growth. What good is playing a bunch of 22 year olds who will easily get demoralized because they can't win a game? Let them see the light at the end of the tunnel -- even if we don't make the playoffs -- a team built around Jagr, Holik, and Demitra would be fine with me.

Let's be honest -- whose spot is Demitra going to take on the first line LW or C? These kids still need to learn from someone, and why not have it be a 29-year old with a good attitude, who is solid at both ends of the ice and has magical offensive skills?

If the price is two second round picks, I'd do it. If we can move up from 26th to 17th as well, I'd DEFINITELY do it.

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04-24-2004, 01:40 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetchie
There's nothing wrong with contending while bringing up young players. Colorado did a fine job of that -- see Hejduk, Drury, Tanguay, Svatos, Deadmarsh. Ask Detroit about Datsyuk and Zetterberg.
Or ask the Rangers about Lundmark, Brendl, et al. along with Fleury Kamensky, Lefebvre and Quintal. We've been down this path before and it didn't work. The reason it works for Colorado and Detroit is because they had a cohesive team that they added parts to. They developed that cohesive team by taking their lumps with a young core and letting them grow together.

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04-24-2004, 02:50 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetchie
There's nothing wrong with contending while bringing up young players. Colorado did a fine job of that -- see Hejduk, Drury, Tanguay, Svatos, Deadmarsh. Ask Detroit about Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

As long as the team isn't loaded with 30+ year olds, mixing up some youth with veterans allows for growth. What good is playing a bunch of 22 year olds who will easily get demoralized because they can't win a game? Let them see the light at the end of the tunnel -- even if we don't make the playoffs -- a team built around Jagr, Holik, and Demitra would be fine with me.

Let's be honest -- whose spot is Demitra going to take on the first line LW or C? These kids still need to learn from someone, and why not have it be a 29-year old with a good attitude, who is solid at both ends of the ice and has magical offensive skills?

If the price is two second round picks, I'd do it. If we can move up from 26th to 17th as well, I'd DEFINITELY do it.
I understand where you're coming from, but I just dont wanna see a half-assed rebuilding process. Most fans have been asking to clean house and start over with youth for 5 years now. Now that we've started doing that, I'm fully prepared to take the licks and be patient with the Balejs and Tyutins and Blackburns and Lundmarks for the next 3-5 years. I dont want to see any shortcuts taken. I want to see this done right. And if that means giving a top line spot to a kid like Moore or Lundmark instead of reserving it for Demitra, thats what I want to do.

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04-25-2004, 01:21 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak
Or ask the Rangers about Lundmark, Brendl, et al. along with Fleury Kamensky, Lefebvre and Quintal. We've been down this path before and it didn't work. The reason it works for Colorado and Detroit is because they had a cohesive team that they added parts to. They developed that cohesive team by taking their lumps with a young core and letting them grow together.

I agree to a certain extent -- that's what I'm saying we should do.

Neither Lundmark nor Brendl was put in a position to succeed on this club. Brendl never suited up a regular season game for us, and Lundmark was jerked around as well. Give a good offensive player a good offensive linemate and let him make mistakes and learn from his veteran teammates.

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04-25-2004, 01:25 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr4life5186
I understand where you're coming from, but I just dont wanna see a half-assed rebuilding process. Most fans have been asking to clean house and start over with youth for 5 years now. Now that we've started doing that, I'm fully prepared to take the licks and be patient with the Balejs and Tyutins and Blackburns and Lundmarks for the next 3-5 years. I dont want to see any shortcuts taken. I want to see this done right. And if that means giving a top line spot to a kid like Moore or Lundmark instead of reserving it for Demitra, thats what I want to do.

Dominic Moore's ceiling isn't as good as Demitra's current level of play. I was high on Lundmark, but I don't think his ceiling is that high either anymore. I'm not trying to banish the youth to the 4th (or even 3rd) line -- just trying to surround them with players that can help them grow.

I'm fine with having veterans, so long as the kids see ice time as well. The difference between a "half assed rebuilding process" and a successful attempt to compete with youth is the way in which the young players are used. In the past seven years, only one (maybe two) young Rangers have been used properly; Mike York and perhaps Marc Savard. Once you start cutting young players' ice time with the hopes of making the playoffs, then you cross over into "half assed" rebuilding.

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Old
04-25-2004, 12:26 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr4life5186
I understand where you're coming from, but I just dont wanna see a half-assed rebuilding process. Most fans have been asking to clean house and start over with youth for 5 years now. Now that we've started doing that, I'm fully prepared to take the licks and be patient with the Balejs and Tyutins and Blackburns and Lundmarks for the next 3-5 years. I dont want to see any shortcuts taken. I want to see this done right. And if that means giving a top line spot to a kid like Moore or Lundmark instead of reserving it for Demitra, thats what I want to do.
first of all you are taking rebuliding as the whole team ghot to be all young guys, u need vets around to teach these young players the game, then3 years down the road when these kids mature we build around them and bring up more youth for them to learn from our still somwhat expieienced young players than all we need to do is sign a vet here or there to fill positions of role players

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Old
04-25-2004, 12:29 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetchie
Dominic Moore's ceiling isn't as good as Demitra's current level of play. I was high on Lundmark, but I don't think his ceiling is that high either anymore. I'm not trying to banish the youth to the 4th (or even 3rd) line -- just trying to surround them with players that can help them grow.

I'm fine with having veterans, so long as the kids see ice time as well. The difference between a "half assed rebuilding process" and a successful attempt to compete with youth is the way in which the young players are used. In the past seven years, only one (maybe two) young Rangers have been used properly; Mike York and perhaps Marc Savard. Once you start cutting young players' ice time with the hopes of making the playoffs, then you cross over into "half assed" rebuilding.
also good for the youth to be aroyund professional vets and learn the game plus having vets who have won certain awards whether its scoring title or most points in a season or a cup it lets these kids see what winning is

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Old
04-25-2004, 12:34 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrussianBlue
The Rangers have three picks (26, 36 and 37) in the top end of the draft, correct?

Would there be any interest in trading those picks for Tkachuk (or Demitra) and the Blues' 17th overall pick?

All opinions are welcome.

Thanks,

PrussianBlue
Trade the 26, 36 and 37 for Tkachuk? I would give you 36 and 37 for Tkachuk. I love Tkachuk's game and if I could get him, He would be a exception to the rule about picking up veteran players at this point in time.

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Old
04-25-2004, 09:22 PM
  #16
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I'm going with Leetchie on this one.

Demitra and the #17 for the the #26,#36, and #46 would be a good deal. Prussian Blue's orignial proposed trade might be doable, but I'd want a little something extra like a mid-round draft pick.

Tkachuk is a good power forward, something we could use. But I think we need a playmaker more. Also, Demitra is younger and cheaper.

Taking a spot from a deserving youngster? We don't HAVE any projected first line centers. And playing young players without first line potential on the top line (where they will take almost every shift and faceoff against the other teams' top defense pairing, shutdown line, and top faceoff man.) can be as damaging as playing them 6 minutes a night. Put holik on the 3rd line, and have the 2nd line (Immonen, Prucha, Umberger? Moore) and 4th line (Betts, Moore, Giroux?) be open competition slots for youngsters.

As Leetchie said, Moore's upside is not as good as what Demitra could provide now. As for Lundmark, IMHO he needs to be moved to LW to establish himself in a scoring line role. Then he doesn't have to worry about faceoffs and other center responsibilities. In fact, I'm willing to pencil in Jamie as the LW for Demitra and Jagr. If playing with those 2 doesn't jumpstart his offensive game, nothing will.

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