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Laraque to be Bought Out by Habs

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Old
01-21-2010, 10:36 PM
  #476
Nidema
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Originally Posted by earl the habs fan View Post
You're clear, but you're not making sense at the moment.

If I bought a car and then gave it away, then immediately replaced it with another, thinking that it makes good sense because my salary is going up 2 years from now, I'd be broke soon (and dumb) .

If the cap goes up it will be absorbed by salary inflation, it doesn't help the Laraque situation, which basic math tells us is a bad move financially.
The scenario is different, because if you give a car away, you don`t get any inflow from savings. In this case, you do, because you buy out laraque`s contract, the outstanding amount is now a cost saving. If you give your car away, you get no savings. That is why I made that point.

A better example would be, if I bought a car and was paying annual installments. I choose to no longer pay the installments at some sort of penalty. In this case, you incur the cost of the penalty but you get savings down the road as well.

Another question you have to ask yourself in the cap increase scenario, does cap increase at the same rate, less than or greater than the rate of salary inflation. If the cap increase rate is greater than the rate of salary inflation, then you still win. I don`t have the answers to the that because I haven`t done the analysis. However, in real life, inflation increases at a faster rate than salary increase.

You have to look at this as cost savings. Either way, there is a net cash outflow but you look at the inflow from cost savings.

I actually did some financial analysis using discount rate.
So assuming, 0.25% interest rate ( current interest rate in Canada) and inflation of 1.3239% (last reported inflation rate in Canada)

Scenario 1
No Laraque Buy out
The present value of his cap hit of 1.5mil for next year is 1.476mil after taking into account time value of money.

Scenario 2
Laraque Buyout.
The buy out cap hit in year 1 and year 2 is 500k respectively.
Laraque`s cap hit is 1.5m.

So year 1, we have net savings of 1mil and year 2, we have net savings of -500k.

Now if we take into account a replacement player at lets say Pyatt (850K), then your total savings in year 1 is 150K and year 2 is -1.35m. Now you have to discount this to take into account time value of money at a rate of 1.57% as assumed. The discounted value is $147k and -$1.308m in year 1 and 2 respectively. The total value saved is the sum which is -$1.160m. Compare this to the first scenario where we are just outflowing 1.476m. Than yes, financially, there is a saving. This is pure dollar saving though. Not Cap hit.

I attached the excel spreadsheet if someone wants to see the work and comment.
Attached Files
File Type: xls Laraque Buyout.xls‎ (16.0 KB, 4 views)


Last edited by Nidema: 01-22-2010 at 12:10 AM.
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Old
01-21-2010, 10:55 PM
  #477
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This couldn't have come sooner! Actually it could have, they should never have signed him in the first place!

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01-21-2010, 11:51 PM
  #478
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Gainey has become a champ at fixing problems he has himself caused.

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01-21-2010, 11:54 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by KimoGionta View Post
Gainey has become a champ at fixing problems he has himself caused.
a company hire 100 people

over the run of a year
20 get fired/quit or leave

how do ya know?all the interviews in the world ,your still goona have ones that are wrong apples .


Hockey no different.

put 22 guys together take your best guess and hope it works .

a hockey team is really just a high paid traveling circus. these guys are paid preformers and the road life glamor to many, but breaks alot of men down many different ways(mental /physcial) and most have their names forgottten in 5 or 10 years after retirement .

think of all the great names even from 10 years ago , its like whats he doing now?


even Jean Beliveau one of the great habs ever,he takes a stroke and that thread has 3 pages.


BGL has about 35 pages after getting sent home .


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01-22-2010, 01:21 AM
  #480
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Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post
Gainey does not give a damn about what fans want concerning hockey operations.

He did cave in....after he saw that all the nice promises of a cleaner style of game in the playoffs from the league were BS. Remember the season before Laraque was signed. He and Carbo were trying to play the "new" style of hockey, based on speed and punishing PP. Then in the Playoffs the referees returned to the "good ole' hockey style" with no whistles.
Well, the thing is that we do have speed and a punishing PP but yet we are 1 game under 500 and in danger of missing the playoffs .

Maybe it's a time for a change of philosophy . The problem is that it will be hard to do since we are stuck with the same core for the next 5 years.

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01-22-2010, 01:38 AM
  #481
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Well, the thing is that we do have speed and a punishing PP but yet we are 1 game under 500 and in danger of missing the playoffs .

Maybe it's a time for a change of philosophy . The problem is that it will be hard to do since we are stuck with the same core for the next 5 years.
The core itself isn't really the problem. The supporting cast is terrible and useless. Removing Laraque was a big part of fixing that but we need productive 3rd liners.

Ultimately, the team needs dirt cheap 4th liners that play 5 minutes and good 3rd liners that can play 15-18 mins.

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01-22-2010, 07:09 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by smon View Post
Good remarks by Gainey;

"I don't have a copy of George's code," Gainey said. "I think the point is it's your teammates you're here for. It isn't your code, it's our code."

http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/s...#ixzz0dIJ5JMzQ
I could have told Gainey this before he signed him. Laraque has never been an instigator. Who does the scouting for the team?

Gainey is admitting a mistake here, although I didn't hear him say it.

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01-22-2010, 08:18 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post
Gainey does not give a damn about what fans want concerning hockey operations.
He did cave in....after he saw that all the nice promises of a cleaner style of game in the playoffs from the league were BS. Remember the season before Laraque was signed. He and Carbo were trying to play the "new" style of hockey, based on speed and punishing PP. Then in the Playoffs the referees returned to the "good ole' hockey style" with no whistles.
Agreed...but in this instance. I think fan/media influence did play a factor

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01-22-2010, 08:29 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Chili View Post
I could have told Gainey this before he signed him. Laraque has never been an instigator. Who does the scouting for the team?

Gainey is admitting a mistake here, although I didn't hear him say it.
Well, he kinda choke on his word. He needs to make his presence know.

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01-22-2010, 08:33 AM
  #485
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Anyone see the Rangers / Flyers game last night?

Regardless of your thoughts on BGL, we are gonna get absolutely pummeled against teams like Philly and the Leafs from here on. It's gonna be ugly, and our smurfs are not gonna be happy.

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01-22-2010, 08:41 AM
  #486
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Originally Posted by FlavorFlav View Post
Anyone see the Rangers / Flyers game last night?

Regardless of your thoughts on BGL, we are gonna get absolutely pummeled against teams like Philly and the Leafs from here on. It's gonna be ugly, and our smurfs are not gonna be happy.
Please...stop buying into the propaganda. What the hell has Philly & the Leafs done with their big bad teams?

Skill and ability trumps ALL...2 years ago the Habs finished 1st in the East not cause they were big and bad, but because teams couldn't skate with them and the teams who tried to take liberties paid for it on the PP (which is the best form of retribution).

Habs have a skilled team, the more they play to this strength, the more success they will have. It almost seems like things started to go downhill for the habs 2 years ago when they thought that they had to stop playing with their skill and start playing with their fists.

The problem with the Habs is that they lack TEAM TOUGHNESS...they don't stand up for each other as much as other teams do.


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Old
01-22-2010, 08:50 AM
  #487
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Very interesting Michel Therrien's interview...
http://www.corussports.com/hockey/no...n-1940953.html

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01-22-2010, 09:48 AM
  #488
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Please...stop buying into the propaganda. What the hell has Philly & the Leafs done with their big bad teams?

Skill and ability trumps ALL...2 years ago the Habs finished 1st in the East not cause they were big and bad, but because teams couldn't skate with them and the teams who tried to take liberties paid for it on the PP (which is the best form of retribution).

Habs have a skilled team, the more they play to this strength, the more success they will have. It almost seems like things started to go downhill for the habs 2 years ago when they thought that they had to stop playing with their skill and start playing with their fists.

The problem with the Habs is that they lack TEAM TOUGHNESS...they don't stand up for each other as much as other teams do.
Did you see Carcillo beating on Gaborik last night? Whose going to stop him Moen? Team toughness works but against teams like the Leafs and Philly it wont because I would say philly is probably the physcially toughest team to play against and about half their roster fights, compared to the Habs where you have Moen and O'Byrne who can legitimately chuck them and thats about it.

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01-22-2010, 09:52 AM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Chili View Post
I could have told Gainey this before he signed him. Laraque has never been an instigator. Who does the scouting for the team?

Gainey is admitting a mistake here, although I didn't hear him say it.
Gainey didn't want Georges to be an instigator. He wanted him to be in good enough shape to play about 10min and respond to anybody that took liberties vs our smaller skilled players.
That is exactly what BGL is supposed to do.

He isn't paid to score goals, make passes or play defensively.

His health was the problem, and offering a contract to such a banged up player was the mistake.

A healthy BGL with better speed and doing what he's paid for would play every night for us.

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01-22-2010, 10:03 AM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
Did you see Carcillo beating on Gaborik last night? Whose going to stop him Moen? Team toughness works but against teams like the Leafs and Philly it wont because I would say philly is probably the physcially toughest team to play against and about half their roster fights, compared to the Habs where you have Moen and O'Byrne who can legitimately chuck them and thats about it.
And what would Laraque do when Carcillo declines Laraque's invitation to pistols at dawn?

Carcillo would still beat on Plekanec knowing that he could pull a Lucic, politely saying no thank you to BGL.

At least Moen wouldn't give Carcillo a choice. Neither would Mara. Guys who aren't the greatest or most intimidating fighters in the game. But, at least they show their teammates that they are there for them. That's called respect.

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01-22-2010, 10:04 AM
  #491
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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
Did you see Carcillo beating on Gaborik last night? Whose going to stop him Moen? Team toughness works but against teams like the Leafs and Philly it wont because I would say philly is probably the physcially toughest team to play against and about half their roster fights, compared to the Habs where you have Moen and O'Byrne who can legitimately chuck them and thats about it.
Again....what has Philly toughness gotten them? Sure they're very tough and they've got some borderline dirty players, but that hasn't gotten them anywhere. It's appealing hockey to the old school rock em' sock em' type of fans, but at the end of the day, the Flyers aren't going anywhere

I remember at the beginning of the year everyone was talking about the Maple Leafs vaunted toughness, guys like Jay Rosehill were going to destroy the Habs on opening night...what the hell has Jay Rosehill done this year? Where are the leafs in the standings?

The best way to intimidate your opponent is on the scoreboard.

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01-22-2010, 10:06 AM
  #492
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Again....what has Philly toughness gotten them? Sure they're very tough and they've got some borderline dirty players, but that hasn't gotten them anywhere. It's appealing hockey to the old school rock em' sock em' type of fans, but at the end of the day, the Flyers aren't going anywhere
They've had more playoff success than we've had recently.

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01-22-2010, 10:09 AM
  #493
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They've had more playoff success than we've had recently.
Cause they've won a few more rounds here and there? Big deal...IMO, playoff success means getting the Stanley Cup finals. You can't hang your hat on anything else IMO. Even Conference finals are nice, but if you don't get through, it doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. You don't win awards from losing the Conference finals

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01-22-2010, 10:09 AM
  #494
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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
Did you see Carcillo beating on Gaborik last night? Whose going to stop him Moen? Team toughness works but against teams like the Leafs and Philly it wont because I would say philly is probably the physcially toughest team to play against and about half their roster fights, compared to the Habs where you have Moen and O'Byrne who can legitimately chuck them and thats about it.
Bring up Neilson-White-Stewart, and there you go, that's now 5 guys that can fight, hit and disturb the opponent.
Also, the game plan of the coaches from the other side will never be to take stupid penalties vs us because we have the #2 PP.

Toronto and Philly's aggressive and physical style doesn't scare me in the least.
Philly is a great team, not because of their physical play, but because they have great skilled players. Everybody placed them high up in the standings before season started.

Gainey said Detroit won cups without an enforcer, and he was right.
What he failed to acknowledge though, is that they didn't have a bunch of undersize forwards and that their 3rd-4th lines were actually very useful. Draper made a name for himself there, even made the Team Canada roster. Maltby was pesty and at the beginning of their dynasty, they had a guy named Darren McCarthy.

So, yea, you can function without an enforcer but you need solid role players. Considering how small some of our top players are, the role players need to be bigger to compensate.

I was all for buying out BGL, had been saying it around here a few days before it happened. Next step to me is to sent down MaxPac.
Call up White-Neilson. Risk sending D'Ago through waivers and then call up Stewart.
If you have a White-Stewart-Neilson line, at least you'll know exactly what their role is. Bang and disturb. Simple, clear.
It will finally give us a 4th line with purpose.
From there on out, you can make a solid defensive 3rd line with Metro-Lappy-Moen.
Put MAB with Plekanec, instead of having a guy like Darche, D'Ago or MaxPac that bring nothing, at least we know he can shoot hard.

When Sergei comes back, you scratch Stewart or Neilson, put Lappy on 4th and MAB on 3rd.

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01-22-2010, 10:35 AM
  #495
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Bring up Neilson-White-Stewart, and there you go, that's now 5 guys that can fight, hit and disturb the opponent.
Also, the game plan of the coaches from the other side will never be to take stupid penalties vs us because we have the #2 PP.

Toronto and Philly's aggressive and physical style doesn't scare me in the least.
Philly is a great team, not because of their physical play, but because they have great skilled players. Everybody placed them high up in the standings before season started.

Gainey said Detroit won cups without an enforcer, and he was right.
What he failed to acknowledge though, is that they didn't have a bunch of undersize forwards and that their 3rd-4th lines were actually very useful. Draper made a name for himself there, even made the Team Canada roster. Maltby was pesty and at the beginning of their dynasty, they had a guy named Darren McCarthy.

So, yea, you can function without an enforcer but you need solid role players. Considering how small some of our top players are, the role players need to be bigger to compensate.

I was all for buying out BGL, had been saying it around here a few days before it happened. Next step to me is to sent down MaxPac.
Call up White-Neilson. Risk sending D'Ago through waivers and then call up Stewart.
If you have a White-Stewart-Neilson line, at least you'll know exactly what their role is. Bang and disturb. Simple, clear.
It will finally give us a 4th line with purpose.
From there on out, you can make a solid defensive 3rd line with Metro-Lappy-Moen.
Put MAB with Plekanec, instead of having a guy like Darche, D'Ago or MaxPac that bring nothing, at least we know he can shoot hard.

When Sergei comes back, you scratch Stewart or Neilson, put Lappy on 4th and MAB on 3rd.
Pretty sure Neilson isnt Montreals property, so there goes that. Has anyone seen white fight? I havent so I dont know if he can throw or what. Also if philly gets decent goaltending in the playoffs and adds a d man I wouldnt want to play them, they are made for the playoffs with the amount of grit and talent they have and pronger is a playoff beast. We dont need another Laraque but a useful fighter is needed, and in the trade thread getting Rypien would be great but I see the canucks ditching Hordichuk before him. Stewart was terrible this year, arguably worse than laraque when he was up.
And in the bolded part youve hit the difference between teams that are successful with the team toughness approach. Calgary can also use this but they have what 2 solidified fighters in Prust and McGrattan. We have top 2 small lines and a bunch of ******* for the most part on the bottom 2. Moen isnt a ***** but he hasnt been as much of a force as I thought but still solid and Metro isnt a ***** but again small.

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01-22-2010, 10:48 AM
  #496
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Pretty sure Neilson isnt Montreals property, so there goes that. Has anyone seen white fight? I havent so I dont know if he can throw or what. Also if philly gets decent goaltending in the playoffs and adds a d man I wouldnt want to play them, they are made for the playoffs with the amount of grit and talent they have and pronger is a playoff beast. We dont need another Laraque but a useful fighter is needed, and in the trade thread getting Rypien would be great but I see the canucks ditching Hordichuk before him. Stewart was terrible this year, arguably worse than laraque when he was up.
And in the bolded part youve hit the difference between teams that are successful with the team toughness approach. Calgary can also use this but they have what 2 solidified fighters in Prust and McGrattan. We have top 2 small lines and a bunch of ******* for the most part on the bottom 2. Moen isnt a ***** but he hasnt been as much of a force as I thought but still solid and Metro isnt a ***** but again small.
Same story every year...when are people going to learn. Flyers (and the Sharks for that matter) aren't going to win **** all!

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01-22-2010, 10:50 AM
  #497
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Same story every year...when are people going to learn. Flyers (and the Sharks for that matter) aren't going to win **** all!
You are right changing goalies and adding pronger the playoff monster wont make a slight bit of difference. Montreal is going to be mediocre forever things never change am I right? So we all may as well go cheer for a team that might win the cup. Philly has made it to the conference finals and the second round the past 2 years and the only team to beat them is the Pens you are right they are ****ing awful.

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01-22-2010, 10:55 AM
  #498
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Please...stop buying into the propaganda. What the hell has Philly & the Leafs done with their big bad teams?

Skill and ability trumps ALL...2 years ago the Habs finished 1st in the East not cause they were big and bad, but because teams couldn't skate with them and the teams who tried to take liberties paid for it on the PP (which is the best form of retribution).

Habs have a skilled team, the more they play to this strength, the more success they will have. It almost seems like things started to go downhill for the habs 2 years ago when they thought that they had to stop playing with their skill and start playing with their fists.

The problem with the Habs is that they lack TEAM TOUGHNESS...they don't stand up for each other as much as other teams do.
You miss my point completely. I'm not saying they are skilled teams, I'm saying we are and teams like these will run over us and cheap shot us and potentially injure with no retaliation...

I pity O'Byrne, cause there ain't much else...

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01-22-2010, 11:32 AM
  #499
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McGuire was on Philly radio this morning and he said that there's no such thing as a "Code" in the NHL. It's a conconction in the minds of a some players who just don't want to stick up for their teammates. Sound like any former player we may know??

This on the heels of the St. Louis game where he bashed Martin all game long for not playing Laraque to go agaisnt Janssen. Go figure.

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01-22-2010, 11:41 AM
  #500
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Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
a company hire 100 people

over the run of a year
20 get fired/quit or leave

how do ya know?all the interviews in the world ,your still goona have ones that are wrong apples .


Hockey no different.
True. The only thing matters is the end result. Either your a business or a hockey team.....

We keep hearing how drafting isn't an exact science....well seems to me like GM isn't an exact science either....coaching isn't an exact science as well.....Still, GM and coaches are fired every single year. Firing a coach or GM isn't an exact science as well....So what does matter? End result even if it's a GM or a coach fault or not.

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