HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

UPD: Lightning sold to Vinik (cash + future payroll?) (UPD - BOG approves sale)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-21-2010, 12:58 PM
  #1
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 31,905
vCash: 500
UPD: Lightning sold to Vinik (cash + future payroll?) (UPD - BOG approves sale)

Possible Pistons Sale Accelerating Search For Lightning Buyer
Credit: sportsbusinessdaily.com

Quote:
Karen Davidson's plan to explore a sale of the Pistons and Palace Sports & Entertainment (PS&E) has accelerated efforts by Lightning owners and the NHL to find a buyer for the Tampa Bay franchise, sources said. Oren Koules and Len Barrie borrowed $100M to buy the Lightning from PS&E and Galatioto Sports Partners in '08. Multiple sources said that they have defaulted on that loan. Currently, Koules and Barrie are looking to put together separate groups to buy the team, and the league is searching for a third potential bidder, sources said. The Lightning and the NHL have said that they expect to get a deal done soon. To help the Lightning cover their January payroll obligations, the NHL has advanced the club revenue-sharing money for the '09-10 season, multiple sources said. The advances are the second the Lightning have received to cover payroll. In April '09, the club got an advance of $2M from broadcaster Sun Sports to help make its last payroll of the season, sources said. The NHL previously advanced revenue-sharing money to the Coyotes in late '08. That team subsequently wound up in bankruptcy. Lightning and Palace officials declined to comment. NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said, "We are working with the current Lightning owners to resolve a number of issues for their mutual benefit, and for the long-term benefit of the franchise and the League. We hope to have resolution on at least some of those issues in the relatively near future." A sale would bring an end to the partnership between Koules and Barrie, who have had an acrimonious relationship marked by disagreements over management and liquidity issues. The Lightning's attendance is down 9.7% compared to last season, and their average of 15,025 spectators a game is 20% fewer than the 18,801 fans a game they averaged over the same period in the '07-08 season, when the team was controlled by Palace Sports management (Mickle & Lombardo, SportsBusiness Journal).

LIGHTNING STRIKES: NHL and PS&E sources indicated that ownership of the Lightning "could revert back to Davidson as early as Feb. 15, although the Lightning wouldn't confirm any deadline." PS&E execs are "girding for the inevitable return of the team they sold in August 2008." PS&E has essentially "held the mortgage on the hockey franchise, collecting a monthly payment, since the sale was approved." Prior to his death last year, Bill Davidson "agreed he would take back the franchise if the new owners defaulted on the loan." If Karen Davidson regains control of the Lightning, the team "could be lumped on to a sale package" along with the Pistons and PS&E, "making a sell tougher" (DETROIT NEWS, 1/21).

Mod: Title updated, per THN Report that sale is near completion (post #64 w/update)

2/4/10 UPD on Tentative Agreement: http://tampabay.com/blogs/lightning/...-jeffrey-vinik


Last edited by LadyStanley: 03-04-2010 at 02:29 PM. Reason: update title
Ziggy Stardust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2010, 01:06 PM
  #2
Jonas1235
Registered User
 
Jonas1235's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,466
vCash: 500
Who wouldn't want to own the Lightning.

Brand new building, over 20,000 capacity for hockey. A Stanley Cup banner and I believe the current owners own adjacent land to the arena.

There are good hockey fans in Tampa Bay, they aren't supporting the team right now because of the awful product that's been on the ice since the lockout. A new owner with a new philosophy could turn Tampa back into what they were pre-lockout.

Jonas1235 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2010, 01:13 PM
  #3
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 30,684
vCash: 500
http://redwingscorner.blogspot.com/2...lace-loan.html

This sheds some light on the Pistons, The Palace, and the Ilitches:
Quote:
Among the potential owners approaches, according to a Palace source, was the Ilitch family, owners of the Detroit Red Wings. The Ilitches didn't enter negotiations for the Pistons. Had they bought the basketball team, they would have been in the untenable situation of also owning a mortgage on the Tampa Bay Lightning, an NHL rival.
Odd that the Lightning are lumped in under the Pistons, and not the PSE arm that owns the team and the arena. Hmmm.

Fugu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2010, 01:32 PM
  #4
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 30,684
vCash: 500
From the Detroit News (going directly to the source):

Quote:
...
Forbes Magazine listed the Pistons as the fourth most valuable team in the 30-team NBA -- trailing only the Lakers, Knicks and Bulls. The magazine valued the Pistons at $479 million, although it's doubtful in the present economy, the franchise could fetch that much.

Still, the fact the next owner could also own The Palace could possibly quicken the sale. Along with the potential sale of the Pistons, it appears Davidson and Palace Sports and Entertainment also must deal with getting their hockey team back.

Sources both in the NHL and at The Palace believe ownership of the Tampa Bay Lightning could revert back to Davidson as early as Feb. 15, although the Lightning wouldn't confirm any deadline. The current ownership in Tampa has been trying, with the help of the NHL, to find either more investors or another buyer. Those efforts are ongoing. But the bosses at Palace Sports and Entertainment are girding for the inevitable return of the team they sold in August 2008.

They knew all along this scenario was possible and never really completely cut ties with the Lightning. The sale price was roughly $200 million. The current ownership group, led by Oren Koules and Len Barrie, could only come up with about $95 million. Tom Wilson, CEO of Palace Sports and Entertainment, was so desperate to dump the Lightning, he convinced Bill Davidson to loan Koules and Barrie the balance of the sale price. So, essentially, Palace Sports and Entertainment has held the mortgage on the hockey franchise, collecting a monthly payment, since the sale was approved.

The NHL wasn't thrilled with that arrangement and didn't approve the sale until Davidson agreed he would take back the franchise if the new owners defaulted on the loan. Not only have Koules and Barrie had trouble making the monthly loan payments, they also have fallen behind on operating expenses.

Fugu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2010, 03:23 PM
  #5
Bolt32
Registered User
 
Bolt32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 2,898
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
From the Detroit News (going directly to the source):

Well, that was short lived. Three things I would like from an owner to come here.

1. Keep the team in Tampa
2. Actually have the money to operate the team.
3. Wants to put a winning product on the ice.

Bolt32 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2010, 04:33 PM
  #6
81ragnaH
Registered User
 
81ragnaH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lynn, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
Who wouldn't want to own the Lightning.

Brand new building, over 20,000 capacity for hockey. A Stanley Cup banner and I believe the current owners own adjacent land to the arena.

There are good hockey fans in Tampa Bay, they aren't supporting the team right now because of the awful product that's been on the ice since the lockout. A new owner with a new philosophy could turn Tampa back into what they were pre-lockout.
it shouldn't be too hard, either. they already have a good core of lecavalier, stamkos, and hedman, all very marketable players. i suppose you could add st. louis but he's in his twilight years i'd imagine, not too much left i the tank, but how knows. if he stayed with the organization after retirement i think that would do wonders for PR in tampa, he's quite a fan favourite and (hopefully) the first to get his name up in the rafters.

but anyway, with that core, it shouldn't be too hard to build a solid playoff team around them in the not too distant future. i hope for the franchise's sake that the ownership situation is settled before stamkos and hedman hit RFA so they can get locked up.

81ragnaH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2010, 04:47 PM
  #7
bassassin
Registered User
 
bassassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: England
Country: England
Posts: 5,391
vCash: 500
For the love of God can we not have some decent owners with money, is that too much to ask?

Edit: They must be willing to spend said money.

Edit:2 damn you guys are slow off the mark, been on a lightning board for 2 days now, didnt want to bring it over though, as previous lightning ownership threads havent been the greatest...

bassassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2010, 05:05 PM
  #8
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 30,684
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
For the love of God can we not have some decent owners with money, is that too much to ask?

Edit: They must be willing to spend said money.

Edit:2 damn you guys are slow off the mark, been on a lightning board for 2 days now, didnt want to bring it over though, as previous lightning ownership threads havent been the greatest...

I saw the Tampa link yesterday, but earlier in the week was distracted by the talk that the Ilitches had looked at leasing the Palace-- and some suggestions that they might buy the Pistons. (I know Ilitch isn't an NBA fan, but the whole arena issue was intriguing.)


Now..... the default on the loan or payments (if indeed true)? Feb 15 deadline was news to me.

Fugu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2010, 06:44 PM
  #9
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 30,684
vCash: 500
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/jan...ettled/sports/
Quote:
Lightning officials declined comment on a report Thursday by the Sports Business Journal that the National Hockey League advanced the team revenue-sharing money for the 2009-10 season to cover January payroll expenses.
...
According to multiple reports citing unnamed sources, OK Hockey already has defaulted on its loan payments to PS&E.
...
Potential new investors for the Lightning, however, remain scarce. The most serious bidder to emerge was Miami Beach investor Jeff Greene, who formally applied for ownership and began a process of due diligence in late September to examine the team's finances after being recruited by representatives of Koules. But on Oct. 28, Greene withdrew his interest after determining the financial numbers were not in line.
The only other candidate to surface is St. Louis real estate mogul Anthony Sansone, Jr., who had been working with Barrie. It is unclear how serious an investor Sansone is at this point. He reportedly has not applied for ownership with the league and hasn't spoken publically on the matter in months, while Barrie has recently stopped responding to inquiries.
Barrie and Koules were both in New York, site of the NHL league offices, on Tuesday when the team played the Rangers, though it is unclear why.

Fugu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2010, 06:53 PM
  #10
BadHammy*
MSL For Hart!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Right Behind Me!
Posts: 10,444
vCash: 500
I'm mildly concerned about the financial state. A housecleaning needs to be implemented of upper management besides Lawton whenever the new owners come in.

BadHammy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2010, 07:04 PM
  #11
CSampson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,212
vCash: 500
Save us Jim !

CSampson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2010, 07:09 PM
  #12
mucker*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Let's Be Safe!
Posts: 3,082
vCash: 500
Nobody talks much or gives credit, but that looks like one heck of an arena.

mucker* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2010, 11:09 AM
  #13
He Lied to Mario
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 342
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSampson View Post
Save us Jim !
Screw Jim

He Lied to Mario is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2010, 11:29 AM
  #14
Jeffrey93
Registered User
 
Jeffrey93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,188
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by He Lied to Mario View Post
Screw Jim
He's looking better and better everyday. Nashville owner has a lien on his assets by the IRS, Coyotes situation is obvious, Tampa Bay is belly up and might get repo'd, Florida can't be far behind....

But yeah....a billionaire that has a passion for hockey. Screw him!!

Jeffrey93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2010, 12:37 PM
  #15
Bluefan75
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewFounde View Post
Nobody talks much or gives credit, but that looks like one heck of an arena.
It really is. Caught a game a couple of seasons ago while down there, and even in the upper bowl you're right on top of the action. Clean and roomy.

For all the slams against the franchise, the building can't be one of them IMHO.

Bluefan75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2010, 12:37 PM
  #16
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
How many franchises is the NHL allowed to own at one time?

  Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2010, 12:56 PM
  #17
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 56,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
How many franchises is the NHL allowed to own at one time?


The league probably would like to own zero. It's how ever many the BoG approves the "purchase" of.

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2010, 01:33 PM
  #18
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 31,905
vCash: 500
http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...cle1067256.ece
Quote:
The team's on-ice business has run smoothly since June, when NHL commissioner Gary Bettman decreed Koules, as CEO and governor, would handle day-to-day operations with general manager Brian Lawton. Barrie, battling financial troubles in Victoria, British Columbia, with his Bear Mountain Resort, need only be consulted on transactions of $2 million or more.

Still, speculation has been persistent that Palace Sports, as majority debt holder, could reclaim the team if Koules and Barrie did not keep up with payments, and Palace Sports has restructured the deal at least once to help the owners meet obligations.

A report in the Daily Tribune in Royal Oak, Mich., said the Lightning, which last season lost enough money to qualify for $15 million in league revenue sharing and has been hurt by lagging ticket sales and a bad economy, is in default of its Palace Sports loan. The report was not sourced.

True or not, Palace Sports does not want a money-losing property on its books if it might be sold. Finding a buyer is a much better option. Taking less on the dollar to satisfy its loan could speed the process by creating a more conducive purchasing environment.

Retiring the debt has been a parameter since Bettman in June put up the "For Sale" sign. He even gave Koules and Barrie, who were not in synch on how to run things, the chance to buy the other out, but neither came up with the cash.

Several potential buyers have kicked the tires, and there is talk of a group that could be well along in negotiations, though that could not be confirmed.

St. Louis real estate developer Anthony Sansone Jr. has been the most consistent name, though he has been unable to complete a deal. Miami Beach real estate developer Jeff Greene also did due diligence but decided not to pursue after looking at the books, he said.

Ziggy Stardust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2010, 03:58 PM
  #19
The Fear Boners
Plz stop pucks
 
The Fear Boners's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scrip Club
Country: United States
Posts: 20,089
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey93 View Post
He's looking better and better everyday. Nashville owner has a lien on his assets by the IRS, Coyotes situation is obvious, Tampa Bay is belly up and might get repo'd, Florida can't be far behind....

But yeah....a billionaire that has a passion for hockey. Screw him!!
With a complete inability to coexist with other owners and follow the rules.

So yeah, **** Jim.

The Fear Boners is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2010, 04:00 PM
  #20
The Fear Boners
Plz stop pucks
 
The Fear Boners's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scrip Club
Country: United States
Posts: 20,089
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefan75 View Post
It really is. Caught a game a couple of seasons ago while down there, and even in the upper bowl you're right on top of the action. Clean and roomy.

For all the slams against the franchise, the building can't be one of them IMHO.
Damn fine arena in Tampa.

The Fear Boners is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2010, 04:00 PM
  #21
Jeffrey93
Registered User
 
Jeffrey93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,188
vCash: 500
Not a good sign if you have what would seem to be 'local buyers' doing their due diligence on the business because they are interested in buying it...then after seeing the books losing interest.
How bad can it be with a nice rink? If it's simply mis-management I'd think the interested buyers wouldn't flee, same goes for the bad economy reasoning....I'd think they would just come in with a lower offer.

Jeffrey93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2010, 04:07 PM
  #22
Bolt32
Registered User
 
Bolt32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 2,898
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey93 View Post
Not a good sign if you have what would seem to be 'local buyers' doing their due diligence on the business because they are interested in buying it...then after seeing the books losing interest.
How bad can it be with a nice rink? If it's simply mis-management I'd think the interested buyers wouldn't flee, same goes for the bad economy reasoning....I'd think they would just come in with a lower offer.
Tampa has always been a fair whether market. Hockey prior to HF popular knowledge can exist here. We sold out for almost two striaght seasons. Once you make the playoffs, you will sell out the playoffs and the season after, almost a guareentee. Get a team that competes for the cup every year, you will have your sell outs and then you start to slowly raise your prices and the books will be in the green. Its not rocket science. Before Dungy became the head coach of the Bucs way back when I highly doubt they were profiting. Hell there couldn't have been more than 17/18 thousand fans at the game......Considering that the payroll for a Football team is alot higher than a hockey team. They were losing money badly.

Dungy came in and actually put a system in place, owners let the purse strings loosen a bit and the Bucs made the playoffs.....Been soldout for the rest of his Career in Tampa.

Simple as that, its been done with the Bucs, its been done with the lightning before hand. It can happen again.

Bolt32 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2010, 04:24 PM
  #23
Jeffrey93
Registered User
 
Jeffrey93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,188
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt32 View Post
Tampa has always been a fair whether market. Hockey prior to HF popular knowledge can exist here. We sold out for almost two striaght seasons. Once you make the playoffs, you will sell out the playoffs and the season after, almost a guareentee. Get a team that competes for the cup every year, you will have your sell outs and then you start to slowly raise your prices and the books will be in the green. Its not rocket science. Before Dungy became the head coach of the Bucs way back when I highly doubt they were profiting. Hell there couldn't have been more than 17/18 thousand fans at the game......Considering that the payroll for a Football team is alot higher than a hockey team. They were losing money badly.

Dungy came in and actually put a system in place, owners let the purse strings loosen a bit and the Bucs made the playoffs.....Been soldout for the rest of his Career in Tampa.

Simple as that, its been done with the Bucs, its been done with the lightning before hand. It can happen again.
Well...it appears investors that were interested in purchasing this team now aren't....that tells me they don't think they can make it work.
So they basically need to make the playoffs every other year...and if they want to really be financially stable they need to be a non-stop Cup contender? Is that what you are saying? Because....every team wants to do that....can't just flick a switch and do it though.

Jeffrey93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2010, 04:24 PM
  #24
therealkoho
Gary says it's A-OK
 
therealkoho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: the Prior
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,896
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey View Post
Damn fine arena in Tampa.
Yep beautiful no doubt.........must've been 8-9k souls in there last night enjoying it @half of whom were snowbirds from the GWN


"If you build it they will come" unfortunately only works in the movies...............which is a big reason why those two hand picked owners by the BettMan have it up for sale again, before they go bankrupt

I was down in Tampa during their run to the SC and AMOCO was giving away two seats with every fill-up...........great arena, great area but very few hockey fans and that is the problem

therealkoho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2010, 04:36 PM
  #25
Brodie
watcher on the walls
 
Brodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Michigan
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 12,176
vCash: 500
How long until Jim gets involved this time?

Brodie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:14 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.