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UPD: Lightning sold to Vinik (cash + future payroll?) (UPD - BOG approves sale)

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Old
01-29-2010, 11:36 AM
  #51
LadyStanley
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http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/jan...rts-lightning/

Original Tampa Tribune story on Vlink approached to purchase and wanting Lecavalier to waive NTC, for cost cutting reasons.

What team out there has the cap space and desire to take on an eleven year contract (that pays out ~$10m for the first six)?

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"All I can say is we expect a positive resolution in the relatively near future," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said last week.

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01-29-2010, 12:03 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
If indeed it's an advance, then they must be assuming a team would qualify for the full share. Whether or not they reconcile that at the end of the year is unknown.
Why would they be assuuming that?

For that matter, TB cannot and will not qualify for a full share. By all accounts their revenue is falling too quickly to meet the league-wide rates necessary for a full share.

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01-29-2010, 12:34 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
Why would they be assuuming that?

For that matter, TB cannot and will not qualify for a full share. By all accounts their revenue is falling too quickly to meet the league-wide rates necessary for a full share.

Which part am I assuming, according to you? That they received a full share ahead of actual attendance being known? I am going by the numerous reports that this is what happened.

I do however believe that according to the CBA that would need to be adjusted. At the same time, the team seems to be getting additional money from the NHL to meet payroll. I'm sure that gets put under the "secured debt" category, but let's not lose sight of the fact that the current owners apparently can no longer meet obligations. I can understand why Davidson would want to cut ties asap since this becomes money out of their pocket if it goes on too long.

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01-29-2010, 01:39 PM
  #54
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I'm no lawyer...but wouldn't it almost be smarter for prospective owners to have this go the way of the Phoenix Coyotes?
If debt is being accumulated as we speak by the Lightning....wouldn't a buyer want to buy it out of bankruptcy instead of assuming debt and paying a semi-reasonable amount for the franchise?
I know when teams have debt and are sold for say $190M...the current Owner might see a small amount of that $190M and the rest is just assumed debt or paid debt, whatever.

So, am I missing something (probably am!) that would make it less attractive to a future buyer if the team were put into bankrtupcy? Of course, they would then have to be awarded the team by a judge instead of simply agreeing to a deal with the current ownership....but, if they are lukewarm on the idea anyway...wouldn't it make more sense to go the route of the Coyote?

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01-29-2010, 01:56 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey93 View Post
I'm no lawyer...but wouldn't it almost be smarter for prospective owners to have this go the way of the Phoenix Coyotes?
If debt is being accumulated as we speak by the Lightning....wouldn't a buyer want to buy it out of bankruptcy instead of assuming debt and paying a semi-reasonable amount for the franchise?
I know when teams have debt and are sold for say $190M...the current Owner might see a small amount of that $190M and the rest is just assumed debt or paid debt, whatever.

So, am I missing something (probably am!) that would make it less attractive to a future buyer if the team were put into bankrtupcy? Of course, they would then have to be awarded the team by a judge instead of simply agreeing to a deal with the current ownership....but, if they are lukewarm on the idea anyway...wouldn't it make more sense to go the route of the Coyote?
This is a bit more complicated in that the current owners are backed financially by the previous owner, Palace Sports. I think they're financing close to half of the original purchase price, while a NY-based finance group has a secured debt of ~$30 MM.

If OK Hockey defaults, then ownership reverts to Palace Sports. PSE's owner has said she wants to sell all of PSE (Pistons, The Palace in Auburn Hills, and the Lightning... if they revert to them).

The NHL has been helping OK Hockey bridge the gap since it's doubtful PSE wants to throw any more in (not sure if the 50% financing limit has to stay in place), and the ownership will just fall back to them anyway.

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01-29-2010, 03:09 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
This is a bit more complicated in that the current owners are backed financially by the previous owner, Palace Sports. I think they're financing close to half of the original purchase price, while a NY-based finance group has a secured debt of ~$30 MM.

If OK Hockey defaults, then ownership reverts to Palace Sports. PSE's owner has said she wants to sell all of PSE (Pistons, The Palace in Auburn Hills, and the Lightning... if they revert to them).

The NHL has been helping OK Hockey bridge the gap since it's doubtful PSE wants to throw any more in (not sure if the 50% financing limit has to stay in place), and the ownership will just fall back to them anyway.
So if that happens and PSE (wasn't that Balsillie's holding company name?! weird...) owns the Lightning if OK defaults...those 2 clowns that have been the so-called "Owners' of Tbay get nothing?

This seems like an enormous cluster shag. This team was sold to these guys just 2 years ago...and now we're here...league fronting them cash to meet payroll. Hot on the heels of the Phoenix debacle and just prior to that Bettman's chosen one for Nashville, "Boots" getting charged with fraud. What is next? Are stable and reliable Owners that tough to find?

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01-29-2010, 09:30 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Which part am I assuming, according to you? That they received a full share ahead of actual attendance being known? I am going by the numerous reports that this is what happened.
You are assuming that it is a full share. I have not seen any report to that effect. Did I miss an article? Things have been pretty boring around here, so I confess not to being as voracious in my NHL business reading of late.

AS I have said previously, without being contradicted, the NHL CBA does not provide for the possibility of TB having earned a full share last year, evne though Christodero in TB sloppily reported it as such.

With TB having cut their ticket prices dramatically, attendance having been reduced dramatically and by all accounts doing poorly, they cannot qualify for a full share this year either. You know this very well. Accordingly, why would the NHL advance them a full share given that it is impossible that they will qualify for same?

My unconfirmed but well-educated suspicion is that TB - if they are getting advances at all - are getting advances on their share of NHL central revenue. As was demonstrated in PHO, the way the NHL approaches this sort of thing is to distribute advances on central revenue first (a number that can be specifically ascertained), revenue sharing second (a number that can be estimated only) and then (after all else fails) loans. This approach makes so much sense that it is not credible to think they would do it any differently.


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I do however believe that according to the CBA that would need to be adjusted. At the same time, the team seems to be getting additional money from the NHL to meet payroll. I'm sure that gets put under the "secured debt" category, but let's not lose sight of the fact that the current owners apparently can no longer meet obligations. I can understand why Davidson would want to cut ties asap since this becomes money out of their pocket if it goes on too long.
You are "sure" that gets put unde the secured debt category? You would be wrong, because an advance is not even a loan, much less secured. They are advances on money shares which are already the asset of the franchise; they simply have not been distributed as yet. As you may recall, PHO did not need to enter into loan arrangements until they had exhausted the central revenue share and the revneu sharing portion.

"The current owners apparently can no longer meet obligations."

REALLY! Are you sure about that? Quite sure now? You actually think that, just because the owners allegedly - ALLEGEDLY - took advances on their own money (an allegation which Koules has expressly rejected, by the way), you take that to mean that they couldn't meet their obligations?

Let's have a thought experiment; can you imagine a readily possible scenario wherein an NHL owner might have hundreds of millions of assets of their own but, rather than liquidate assets and take a tax hit on them (I assume that point is understood, but let me know if it is not) in order to funds their team, they might decide to avail themselves of the liquid assets owed to them by the league?

You figure Oren Koules is down to his bottom dollar? Is THAT what you think is going on?


Last edited by GSC2k2*: 01-30-2010 at 08:59 AM. Reason: Booboo about Oren Koules name.
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Old
01-29-2010, 09:47 PM
  #58
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GC, read the news articles. I'm not the one saying the franchise might revert, that the team received an advance of a full revenue share, the amounts borrowed (and who the lenders are), that the NHL had to help them meet payroll......

Bah. Dissect the published reports. It's too late and it's Friday night.

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01-29-2010, 11:49 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
You figure Steve Koules is down to his bottom dollar? Is THAT what you think is going on?


Sorry, I really have nothing else to add.

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01-29-2010, 11:56 PM
  #60
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It's a false alarm. There are no problems in Tampa. The newspaper guys are just bored again.


http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...uncertain.html
Quote:
The financial difficulties of current owners Len Barrie and Oren Koules have been well documented, as has the rift between the two men. There is speculation the NHL had covered the Lightning’s last payroll because the team was unable to do so and that there was no money to cover the upcoming payroll for Feb. 15.
...
When the OK Hockey Group purchased the Lightning in 2008, it required former owner Bill Davidson to extend financing for the purchase. Davidson has since died, but his family’s company, Palace Sports and Entertainment, is owed about $100 million after OK Hockey defaulted on its loan and was reportedly on the verge of reassuming control of the franchise.
...

While it’s not expected that Palace Sports and Entertainment will get all of its money back, a significant amount of the selling price would go to Davidson’s company. Galatioto Sports Partners, a company that specializes in pro sports financing, is reportedly also owed $30 million that is secured. That wouldn’t leave much for either Koules or Barrie, who clashed as owners and were unable to put together an ownership group on their own to purchase the team.
Interesting to note that the rent on the arena is $650,000 per year.

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01-30-2010, 12:31 AM
  #61
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http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...cle1069036.ece

Quote:

St. Louis real estate developer Anthony Sansone Jr. is believed still to be interested but hasn't been able to put together a deal. And Miami Beach real estate investor Jeff Greene bowed out after looking at the team's books.
But the landscape has changed somewhat with the news Karen Davidson, widow of former Palace Sports owner Bill Davidson, might sell the NBA's Pistons and Palace Sports, the umbrella company that also owned the Lightning.
The league has made retiring the debt Koules and Barrie owe Palace Sports an imperative for potential owners. There is speculation a for-sale Palace Sports might take less on the dollar to clear the debt, which includes about $67 million in financing of the $200 million sale and another $30 million in operating capital.

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01-30-2010, 06:01 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Chileiceman View Post


Sorry, I really have nothing else to add.
That's funny stuff! They do look a bit alike...and basically have the same last names....I think Steve Kouleas is doing just fine though, no way he is down to his bottom dollar.

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01-30-2010, 08:58 AM
  #63
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Sorry, I really have nothing else to add.
Whooops!!!

What the hell was I thinking.

Got me.

Fixed.

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01-30-2010, 04:20 PM
  #64
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Lightning sale could be complete by end of weekend; Bettman blocked Lecavalier trade

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...f-weekend.html


Quote:
Sources say the sale of the Tampa Bay Lightning to Boston-based hedge fund manager Jeffrey Vinik is all but complete and could be official as early as Saturday or Sunday.

In fact, itís believed that Vinik has already agreed to cover the Lightningís payroll, which is due Feb. 15, as part of a deal that will be signed in the coming days.
...
Itís unclear whether Lightning governor and CEO Oren Koules of the OK Hockey Group will have any stake in the team, but it appears as though co-owner Len Barrie, who is experiencing troubles of his own with his Great Bear Resort near Victoria, B.C., will no longer be part of the ownership group.

The price is believed to be about $170 million for the Lightning, the lease to the St. Pete Times Forum and 5.5 acres of land adjacent to the arena. That might seem like a high price for a team that has been a perennial money loser and is currently only drawing a paid attendance of about 10,500 per game, but the Lightning has a very favorable lease with Hillsborough County, which owns the rink. The team pays only about $650,000 per year in rent and gets all revenues from the hockey games and other events held at the facility.
For the trade rumor mills:

Quote:
Sources say there was a deal in place last June to trade Lecavalier to the Montreal Canadiens for goalie Carey Price, center Tomas Plekanec and a prospect, but the deal was blocked by Bettman after Barrie refused to approve the deal.
...
The Los Angeles Kings have emerged as the front-runner to get Lecavalier, but itís believed they are unwilling to part with the package of players and prospects the Lightning is demanding. Sources say the Lightning has asked the Kings for defenseman Jack Johnson, right winger Wayne Simmonds, a prospect and draft picks.

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01-30-2010, 10:11 PM
  #65
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When the team was last sold in 2007, wasn't the price over $200M?

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01-30-2010, 10:15 PM
  #66
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When the team was last sold in 2007, wasn't the price over $200M?
Correct. I think the final figure was $204 or 206 MM.

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01-31-2010, 06:04 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by StammerHed2010 View Post
Really, the secret around here is putting a competitive team on the ice, and then the fans come.
Just like anywhere else.
Just like anywhere else...exactly. If you put a team on the ice that wins year in and year out....the fans will come. Be it in Vancouver, Montreal, Atlanta, Tampa Bay, Mexico City or Havana.

What makes a good hockey market is when the team is mediocre in the standings or even pretty bad and the fans still come...because they enjoy the game of hockey.

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02-01-2010, 12:45 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey93 View Post
Just like anywhere else...exactly. If you put a team on the ice that wins year in and year out....the fans will come. Be it in Vancouver, Montreal, Atlanta, Tampa Bay, Mexico City or Havana.

What makes a good hockey market is when the team is mediocre in the standings or even pretty bad and the fans still come...because they enjoy the game of hockey.
and it's exactly the fact that i enjoy the game of hockey that i wouldn't want to spend money to watch a crappy team butcher it. its like spending money to piss yourself off instead of enjoying yourself

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02-01-2010, 03:21 PM
  #69
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I just looked this Jeffrey Vinik guy up. His estimated net worth is $515M.

Pretty poor for an NHL team no? I know he won't finance the purchase with his own money but if he did...It would cost him nearly half of what he is worth.
Can this guy take losses of $10 or $20 million a year if he has to? Or is he just one guy in a group of wealthy investors?

Sorry...I've been lazy about keeping up with this thread...I'm sure what I asked has been answered....but, if somebody could quickly enlighten me it would be appreciated.

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02-02-2010, 11:32 AM
  #70
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I just read an article that said his net worth was 800 million.

Is this weird that a deal is coming together so soon? Vinik must be getting a hell of a deal. Apparently him and Bettman met at the Winter Classic and started to talk about teams that are available for sale.

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02-02-2010, 12:53 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
I just read an article that said his net worth was 800 million.

Is this weird that a deal is coming together so soon? Vinik must be getting a hell of a deal. Apparently him and Bettman met at the Winter Classic and started to talk about teams that are available for sale.

Do you have a source? Everything I've seen has ben in the $500 MM range.

Thanks.

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02-02-2010, 12:53 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey93 View Post
What makes a good hockey market is when the team is mediocre in the standings or even pretty bad and the fans still come...because they enjoy the game of hockey.
So cities that have bad attendance during bad times are bad hockey markets. That's what you're saying, right?

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02-02-2010, 01:00 PM
  #73
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Kukla's Korner links to an article that says the sale is close:

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.ph...sale_is_close/

Quote:
via Damian Cristodero of Lightning Strikes,
Meetings that went through Monday and into Tuesday morning at the NHL offices in New York apparently have brought Boston hedgefund manager Jeff Vinik to the brink of buying the Tampa Bay Lightning.
Details are sketchy, and it was unclear how much more work has to be done. But Lightning co-owner Oren Koules apparently attended the meetings and at least representatives for co-owner Len Barrie and Vinik.


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02-02-2010, 01:09 PM
  #74
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So cities that have bad attendance during bad times are bad hockey markets. That's what you're saying, right?
Yes, that is what he is saying. Ridiculously enough.

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02-02-2010, 03:01 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Do you have a source? Everything I've seen has ben in the $500 MM range.

Thanks.
http://www.mutualfundwire.com/articl...ireID=2&bhcp=1

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