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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

UPD: Lightning sold to Vinik (cash + future payroll?) (UPD - BOG approves sale)

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Old
02-08-2010, 12:29 PM
  #151
Ziggy Stardust
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From the SportsBusiness Daily:
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DEAL DETAILS: The ST. PETERSBURG TIMES' Cristodero noted as part of the sale it is believed former Lightning Owner Palace Sports & Entertainment "took a percentage of the approximate $97[M] it was owed" by Lightning Owner OK Hockey. It is believed Galatioto Sports Partners, which helped finance OK Hockey's purchase of the team, was "paid its $32[M] principal plus interest." Lightning co-Owners Len Barrie and Oren Koules lost an estimated $60M "between them, though Koules is expected to get more back from the sale for covering Barrie when he could not meet cash calls" (ST. PETERSBURG TIMES, 2/6). Meanwhile, the GLOBE & MAIL's David Shoalts cited a source as saying that Vinik has "not decided who will run the team for him but he expects to hire a president soon." One candidate "may be former Lightning president Ron Campbell." Lightning GM Brian Lawton's job "appears to be safe for now." Shoalts wrote there was a "great deal of motivation" for NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman to "conclude the sale of the Lightning as quickly as possible." But selling the Lightning was "difficult" for Koules because he "did not want to sell a majority share of the club and was unable to maintain a role in the operation after it became clear Vinik did not want any partners" (GLOBE & MAIL, 2/6). ESPN.com's Pierre LeBrun reported Koules "would like to get back in with another team as a minority partner" ("HNIC," CBC, 2/6).

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Old
02-08-2010, 03:25 PM
  #152
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So starting from $205M...

Minus $60M for Koules/Barrie.
Minus $15M(?) for payroll before deal closes.
Minus "a percentage" for PSE - call it 5% - $5M.

Net price would then be around...$125M? Seems consistent with the most recent stories, anyway.

EDIT: adding link, similar to above story.

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...cle1071236.ece


Last edited by Dado: 02-08-2010 at 03:33 PM.
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Old
02-08-2010, 04:51 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
So starting from $205M...

Minus $60M for Koules/Barrie.
Minus $15M(?) for payroll before deal closes.
Minus "a percentage" for PSE - call it 5% - $5M.

Net price would then be around...$125M? Seems consistent with the most recent stories, anyway.

EDIT: adding link, similar to above story.

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...cle1071236.ece
"Seems consistent with the most recent stories"?????

It is a compilation of the most recent stories.

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02-08-2010, 05:13 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
From the SportsBusiness Daily:
So, if we break the story down:

1) "The ST. PETERSBURG TIMES' Cristodero noted as part of the sale it is believed former Lightning Owner Palace Sports & Entertainment "took a percentage of the approximate $97[M] it was owed" by Lightning Owner OK Hockey."

2) "It is believed Galatioto Sports Partners, which helped finance OK Hockey's purchase of the team, was "paid its $32[M] principal plus interest."

3) "Lightning co-Owners Len Barrie and Oren Koules lost an estimated $60M "between them, though Koules is expected to get more back from the sale for covering Barrie when he could not meet cash calls" (ST. PETERSBURG TIMES, 2/6)." The Times is named, source should be identified.

4) "Meanwhile, the GLOBE & MAIL's David Shoalts cited a source as saying that Vinik has "not decided who will run the team for him but he expects to hire a president soon." One candidate "may be former Lightning president Ron Campbell." Lightning GM Brian Lawton's job "appears to be safe for now..." Source unnamed, but safe to assume someone close to Vinik. First statement in this story that claims to come from a "source."

5) "Shoalts wrote there was a "great deal of motivation" for NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman to "conclude the sale of the Lightning as quickly as possible." But selling the Lightning was "difficult" for Koules because he "did not want to sell a majority share of the club and was unable to maintain a role in the operation after it became clear Vinik did not want any partners" (GLOBE & MAIL, 2/6)." Says who? Shoalts?

6) "ESPN.com's Pierre LeBrun reported Koules "would like to get back in with another team as a minority partner" ("HNIC," CBC, 2/6)." I'll take that as sloppy editing as it seems LeBrun's source is either Koules or someone close to him.

All I can take from this story is that the thread topic is wrong: Lightning HAS NOT been sold to Vinik in all-cash transaction. And that none of the principals or those close to the principals are saying little, if anything, to the media.

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02-08-2010, 05:49 PM
  #155
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All my vCash that the sales figure will be closer to $140MM than $170MM.


I added a ? for RR; and the second part did say "may"....

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03-03-2010, 04:55 PM
  #156
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BOG approves sale...

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/lightning/node/5939

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03-03-2010, 06:32 PM
  #157
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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2010/...htning-sale-0/


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Financial terms were not disclosed. The Boston financier reportedly paid about US$110 million cash -- substantially less than the $206 million a group led by Oren Koules and Len Barrie paid for the franchise in June 2008.
$110 million- what does this do to franchise value re: Coyotes, Thrashers

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03-03-2010, 09:39 PM
  #158
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Fugu owes us all a chunk of that sweet vCash.

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03-03-2010, 09:52 PM
  #159
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Fugu owes us all a chunk of that sweet vCash.
Not so fast, Speedy!


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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Further speculating.... It might be $110 MM cash + the remaining payroll.

The next quarterly installment is due in another week (roughly)? TB's payroll is trending at about $52 MM, so a quarterly payment of $12.9 MM. There would be one remaining payment at the end of the year. That's $26 MM.

$110 MM + 26 MM = $136 MM
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
All my vCash that the sales figure will be closer to $140MM than $170MM.

Add in payroll and assumption of operational costs from Feb onward. And it does seem that they're still citing the earlier guesses/leaks.

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04-07-2010, 09:14 PM
  #160
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Wow!

Doug MacLean says the Lightning, the lease and land went for $80m-$85m, plus $15m advanced from the NHL "from a fairly reliable source".

http://www.fan590.com/onair/primetimesports/ click on PTS: 2010-04-07, 6 pm
at around the 23:30 mark

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04-08-2010, 04:03 AM
  #161
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Wow!

Doug MacLean says the Lightning, the lease and land went for $80m-$85m, plus $15m advanced from the NHL "from a fairly reliable source".

http://www.fan590.com/onair/primetimesports/ click on PTS: 2010-04-07, 6 pm
at around the 23:30 mark
What does that make the Coyotes worth? No wonder Ice Edge had trouble (or is having trouble) getting financing.

If the Lightning went for $85M in Tampa.....how can you justify spending $150M on the Coyotes? How could a bank justify it??

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04-08-2010, 12:07 PM
  #162
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What does that make the Coyotes worth? No wonder Ice Edge had trouble (or is having trouble) getting financing.

If the Lightning went for $85M in Tampa.....how can you justify spending $150M on the Coyotes? How could a bank justify it??
Only a couple of U S teams would be worth 150, the rest much less. Balsillie made the owners a ton of money, on paper. It was because of his extremely high offers for 3 different teams. This gave the false impression these teams were really worth that much. Smoke and mirrors, the teams were only worth this high price to JB. A few lucky owners cashed in and have JB to thank.

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04-08-2010, 12:20 PM
  #163
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Only a couple of U S teams would be worth 150, the rest much less. Balsillie made the owners a ton of money, on paper. It was because of his extremely high offers for 3 different teams. This gave the false impression these teams were really worth that much. Smoke and mirrors, the teams were only worth this high price to JB. A few lucky owners cashed in and have JB to thank.
According to Forbes franchise values for 2009, there's about 12 US teams that are listed above 200 million. That does not include St. Louis, Washington, San Jose or Buffalo.

There's a few teams doing poorly right now, but there's a ton of US teams that are doing just fine. I know it pains Canadians to hear that, but it's true.

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04-08-2010, 12:26 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
According to Forbes franchise values for 2009, there's about 12 US teams that are listed above 200 million. That does not include St. Louis, Washington, San Jose or Buffalo.

There's a few teams doing poorly right now, but there's a ton of US teams that are doing just fine. I know it pains Canadians to hear that, but it's true.
So you're going to use Forbes estimates as have more relevancy than an actual sale?

No idea if your statement pains Canadians, but it is not true. If even a third of NHL teams are doing poorly, that's not good.

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04-08-2010, 12:54 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
According to Forbes franchise values for 2009, there's about 12 US teams that are listed above 200 million. That does not include St. Louis, Washington, San Jose or Buffalo.

There's a few teams doing poorly right now, but there's a ton of US teams that are doing just fine. I know it pains Canadians to hear that, but it's true.
Well according to your reliable source (Forbes) only 5 U S teams made more than 3.5 million dollars. That is not a ton. Secondly who would invest 200 million to make 3.5 million per year or worse, lose money every year.

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04-08-2010, 01:15 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
Well according to your reliable source (Forbes) only 5 U S teams made more than 3.5 million dollars. That is not a ton. Secondly who would invest 200 million to make 3.5 million per year or worse, lose money every year.

I don't think that's the issue either. I don't believe owners buy teams to worry about the year-over-year revenues/losses, unless these become insupportable with regard to franchise value.

The problem with a Tampa sale of $100m is not only that the team was sold for twice that only two years prior, but that Davidson himself only paid $115m in 1999. A decade later, a lockout later, and with a cap in place..... the team may have sold for less than the 1999 sales price? I likened this to the housing market in the US-- fueled by cheap capital and special considerations (Balsillie's threats to move a team with offers that were tens of millions of dollars over even estimated values).

In retrospect, only a fool would have paid >$200m for the Lightning, and that's exactly who Bettman [or Davidson's guy Wilson] found in OK Hockey. When a bank couldn't be convinced to support the price, Davidson bankrolled it himself. One might consider what other teams had pending sales around that time and what a Tampa value of <$150m at that time would have done to the other sales.

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04-08-2010, 01:31 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
In retrospect, only a fool would have paid >$200m for the Lightning, and that's exactly who Bettman [or Davidson's guy Wilson] found in OK Hockey. When a bank couldn't be convinced to support the price, Davidson bankrolled it himself. One might consider what other teams had pending sales around that time and what a Tampa value of <$150m at that time would have done to the other sales.
Which illustrates the difficulty in using Forbes or any other source for future franchise values. Their methodology isn't much different than home appraisers that typically evaluate housing prices in your neighborhood for the trailing three months and arrive at an estimate for your house based on where it ranks in relation to those other sales.

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04-12-2010, 10:38 AM
  #168
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Depending on the source, Vinik’s purchase price was reported to be anywhere from $170 million to $110 million.

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04-12-2010, 10:59 AM
  #169
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Will we ever know how that purchase price breaks down in regards to franchise, lease and adjacent land?

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