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Old
01-22-2010, 06:01 PM
  #1
JerseyRangers
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Read the Rodent

Rodent does a great job on his article regarding last nites game. He's been harping for a while on how soft this team is and I think he's dead on. We had a thread a while ago on what constitutes a "tough" team. The Flyers are a perfect example of a tough team. Forget about that idiot Carcillo. We hadn't won one battle in the corners or in front of the net prior to that and the trend continued throughout the nite. The Flyers made life hell for us last nite -- they won almost every battle on the boards and in front of the net. Bottom line is we only have a few players who are willing to pay the price consistently to win tight games.

We've got too many guys like Roszival and Drury who will shy away from any form of contact and are pretty much invisible when facing an opponent who plays in your face, physical hockey. Even guys like Boyle and Voros seemed to shy away last nite. Their where only two guys last nite that spent the night physically challenging the Flyers. That's way too few and certainly the wrong mix if this organization has any aspirations of playing winning hockey. Personally after last nite's performance if it takes trading Marc Staal + high draft pick + upper tier prospect + middle level player for someone like Phaneuf then you've got to pull the trigger.

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Old
01-22-2010, 06:07 PM
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HAPPY HOUR
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http://hockeyrodent.com/

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01-22-2010, 06:13 PM
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yea, I don't like Boyle, so much unused size, you know he's a *****. Can't believe we traded a 3rd for him.

I like rodent.

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Old
01-22-2010, 06:19 PM
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JerseyRangers
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Thanks HappyHour. I should have included the link! By the way your avatar rocks!!! Can someone do the StayPuff marshmellow man with Drury's head on it?

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Old
01-22-2010, 06:23 PM
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Great read right there

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Old
01-22-2010, 06:29 PM
  #6
Vitto79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
yea, I don't like Boyle, so much unused size, you know he's a *****. Can't believe we traded a 3rd for him.

I like rodent.
actually Boyle has been pretty good and he's cheap. Some 3rd rounders turn into nothing so atleast they have an NHL player. He has replaced Betts just fine

I do agree they a are panzies overall and need some grit but they they also need scoring so can't fix everything in one move

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Old
01-22-2010, 06:32 PM
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As usual, Rodent is right on.

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Old
01-22-2010, 06:34 PM
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Great article and here's a great post by Trottier to further this subject of toughness (lack there of)

Quote:
The answer lies in the makeup of a team.

A tight, winning team defends it's top player(s). Always. No questions asked, no meditating on the morality of the moment. A cursory review of successful NHL hockey team, from the past right up to today, is evidence of such, as there are countless examples.

I am not casually ripping NYR. And you do not want to overstate one incident. But frankly, Girardi's inaction last night speaks volumes about him and more. Likewise, Bradley's action speaks volumes too, at the opposite (positive) end of the spectrum.

And to their credit, NYR fans on their board stated as much. They get it. Likewise, their coach apparently reiterated the point to his team, after the fact.

The two incidences you cite are no reflection on AO or Gaborik, both willing combatants. They are a reflection on the respective team's collective* personality...or lack thereof.

*I am not disparaging the entire NYR roster with that comment. It is clear that Dubinsky would not sit idly if he could have gotten to the scrum. Likewise, Avery, his worts and all, should be commended for his proper response. But otherwise? Sorry, last night confirmed what many of us have suspected about this current NYT roster. Some talent, yes...and very little spine/heart.

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Old
01-22-2010, 06:41 PM
  #9
OverTheCap
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Rodent is spot on, and also recognized that the games against Montreal and Tampa were not so much that the team turning the corner but rather the opponents were just letting the Rangers fly through the neutral zone and failed to adjust like other opponents do.

I enjoyed the little jab "we scored 14 goals in 2 games, we're gonna win the cup!" Definitely a dig towards the "do we have enough talent to win the cup?" type posts.

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Old
01-22-2010, 06:46 PM
  #10
ThirdEye
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The whole team needs to get grittier. Adding one tough player isn't going to do anything because he can only do so much.

Not sure about going after Phaneuf. He's not having a great season. I really don't think it's a good idea trading Staal and a bunch of other valuable stuff for him. We're basically giving all that up for toughness, because Phaneuf isn't exactly sound defensively. Yes he brings offense, but Del Zotto has already kind of filled that niche on the blueline.

Unfortunately, this team probably won't get tougher until the offseason. And even then, there is only so much to work with because of the insane contracts.

No team needs to be as "tough" as Philly though. What exactly have they won with all that toughness lately?

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Old
01-22-2010, 07:00 PM
  #11
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rodent is consistantly a good read

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Old
01-22-2010, 07:05 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
No team needs to be as "tough" as Philly though. What exactly have they won with all that toughness lately?
I agree with this. This whole gritty and tough vs. soft thing is getting out of hand really. Do teams need to play with an edge? Yes. Do players have to protect their assets, and most of all earn respect of other teams so they know they're not going to stand around like a bunch of Girardis and watch it go down? Yes! However, some of the stuff being thrown out around here though makes it sound like we should have a whole team of Carcillos beating the living **** out of anything that moves, instead of scoring goals.

There's a difference between playing hockey and just acting like a bunch of meatheads jacked on 'roids for 60 minutes. I sincerely doubt any of the top 5 - 10 teams in the league right now attribute the majority of their success to how gritty their team is, as much as their ability to play a solid 60 minutes night in and out, for the most part.

To a degree there needs to be an increase in the edge the Rangers have to their game, I think the two games before the Flyers debacle showed just enough of it to win games effectively. Despite the fact those teams were playing poorly themselves. The bottom line is, they just can't roll over and die when a team who actually shows up to play 60 minutes of hockey is on the ice.

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Old
01-22-2010, 07:13 PM
  #13
HAPPY HOUR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
The whole team needs to get grittier. Adding one tough player isn't going to do anything because he can only do so much.

Not sure about going after Phaneuf. He's not having a great season. I really don't think it's a good idea trading Staal and a bunch of other valuable stuff for him. We're basically giving all that up for toughness, because Phaneuf isn't exactly sound defensively. Yes he brings offense, but Del Zotto has already kind of filled that niche on the blueline.

Unfortunately, this team probably won't get tougher until the offseason. And even then, there is only so much to work with because of the insane contracts.

No team needs to be as "tough" as Philly though. What exactly have they won withall that toughness lately?


Its the lack of any real goaltending since Pelle Lindburgh that has held this team back for so long.

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Old
01-22-2010, 07:48 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
The whole team needs to get grittier. Adding one tough player isn't going to do anything because he can only do so much.

Not sure about going after Phaneuf. He's not having a great season. I really don't think it's a good idea trading Staal and a bunch of other valuable stuff for him. We're basically giving all that up for toughness, because Phaneuf isn't exactly sound defensively. Yes he brings offense, but Del Zotto has already kind of filled that niche on the blueline.

Unfortunately, this team probably won't get tougher until the offseason. And even then, there is only so much to work with because of the insane contracts.

No team needs to be as "tough" as Philly though. What exactly have they won with all that toughness lately?
Phaneuf is one of the hardest hitters in the game. He hits to hurt players. I agree that one tough, hard hitting SOB won't transform the team. However, you start at the backend. Bring in that element that we've been missing since Beuk left. I'm terrible with trades and don't even know if Calgary has any intention of trading Phaneuf. However, if he's in play and we have to offer something along the lines of M. Staal+V. Prospal+'10 1st rounder+middle prospect do we go there?? Phaneuf is the same age as Staal and right now is much better than Staal. Would that get it done? Is he worth it? I would pull the trigger on that trade.

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Old
01-22-2010, 07:59 PM
  #15
eco's bones
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Another source questioning Drury's leadership capability.

I think a lot of us already knew we weren't very tough though. Maybe it helps some who didn't think so but Rangers tend towards skill over size and grit. The problem is skilled as Lisin or Higgins are they're not producing more than a lot of less skilled but grittier players that they could skate circles around in practice. So what good are they?

The core/future of the Rangers now on the team:

Lundqvist
Staal
Del Zotto
Gaborik
Dubinsky
Callahan
Anisimov
Avery

That's not nearly enough in place--maybe:

Gilroy
Girardi (I'm questioning him now)

Guys that don't quite cut it:

Rozsival
Redden
Prospal (kind of because there's no way of knowing he'll be around after this year)
Drury
Higgins
Kotalik
Christensen
Lisin
Boyle
Voros (though I have to give him props for stepping up against tougher guys this year)
Brashear

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Old
01-22-2010, 08:44 PM
  #16
jas
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Another source questioning Drury's leadership capability.

I think a lot of us already knew we weren't very tough though. Maybe it helps some who didn't think so but Rangers tend towards skill over size and grit. The problem is skilled as Lisin or Higgins are they're not producing more than a lot of less skilled but grittier players that they could skate circles around in practice. So what good are they?

The core/future of the Rangers now on the team:

Lundqvist
Staal
Del Zotto
Gaborik
Dubinsky
Callahan
Anisimov
Avery

That's not nearly enough in place--maybe:


Gilroy
Girardi (I'm questioning him now)

Guys that don't quite cut it:

Rozsival
Redden
Prospal (kind of because there's no way of knowing he'll be around after this year)
Drury
Higgins
Kotalik
Christensen
Lisin
Boyle
Voros (though I have to give him props for stepping up against tougher guys this year)
Brashear
Hopefully, we will be able to add Sanguinetti, Grachev, McDonagh, Stepan and Kredier in due time.

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Old
01-22-2010, 08:52 PM
  #17
turcotte8
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Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
Thanks HappyHour. I should have included the link! By the way your avatar rocks!!! Can someone do the StayPuff marshmellow man with Drury's head on it?

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Old
01-22-2010, 08:53 PM
  #18
ck20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Another source questioning Drury's leadership capability.

I think a lot of us already knew we weren't very tough though. Maybe it helps some who didn't think so but Rangers tend towards skill over size and grit. The problem is skilled as Lisin or Higgins are they're not producing more than a lot of less skilled but grittier players that they could skate circles around in practice. So what good are they?

The core/future of the Rangers now on the team:

Lundqvist
Staal
Del Zotto
Gaborik
Dubinsky
Callahan
Anisimov
Avery

That's not nearly enough in place--maybe:

Gilroy
Girardi (I'm questioning him now)

Guys that don't quite cut it:

Rozsival
Redden
Prospal (kind of because there's no way of knowing he'll be around after this year)
Drury
Higgins
Kotalik
Christensen
Lisin
Boyle
Voros (though I have to give him props for stepping up against tougher guys this year)
Brashear
drury cuts it in some aspects, but definitely not on the level a veteran captain should. he's been captain of 3 teams now and is far and away the most invisible captain in the league probably in the last decade. the only problem is sometimes he can cut it, others he doesn't do a damn thing and is just another 4th liner.

higgins busts his rear, but nothing's come out of it other than a handful of goals in almost 2/3 of a season.

if kotalik could actually aim, he'd be useful but such is not the case on top of how much he hurts the team making bad plays.

christensen had been good on the line with gaby, but who wouldn't play halfway decently on the same line as someone like him? i think he's just going to revert to the invisible player he was before he got plopped on the 1st line.

everyone praises lisin on his speed blahblah, but is that really a reason to want this guy on the team? he doesn't create chances or do anything it seems besides be a fast skater.

brashear is an just another rangers project that failed.

the only 2 that might belong on the "maybe" list in my eyes are voros and boyle. voros has taken a step in the right direction as of late, but the remainder of the season will tell how that is going to pan out. he may revert back to his old, super terrible self on top of getting his ass handed to him every fight. boyle, while not the youngest, is still pretty young. all he needs is a legit gritty player to mentor that can give him good tips on how to properly use his size. whether or not he'd actually be able or willing to do that though is another topic entirely.

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Old
01-22-2010, 08:55 PM
  #19
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I hope ur not serious Marc Stall is a better D-man than Phaneuf and will be for the rest of his career. I like Phaneuf but to give Stall plus more for Phaneuf LOL.

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Old
01-22-2010, 09:45 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
I hope ur not serious Marc Stall is a better D-man than Phaneuf and will be for the rest of his career. I like Phaneuf but to give Stall plus more for Phaneuf LOL.
A. no hes not

B. If he is so good, spelling his name right should be fundamental.

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Old
01-22-2010, 10:52 PM
  #21
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Rodent's writing style makes my brain hurt... Had to stop reading his blog awhile back...

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Old
01-23-2010, 07:24 AM
  #22
eco's bones
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drury cuts it in some aspects, but definitely not on the level a veteran captain should. he's been captain of 3 teams now and is far and away the most invisible captain in the league probably in the last decade. the only problem is sometimes he can cut it, others he doesn't do a damn thing and is just another 4th liner.

higgins busts his rear, but nothing's come out of it other than a handful of goals in almost 2/3 of a season.

if kotalik could actually aim, he'd be useful but such is not the case on top of how much he hurts the team making bad plays.

christensen had been good on the line with gaby, but who wouldn't play halfway decently on the same line as someone like him? i think he's just going to revert to the invisible player he was before he got plopped on the 1st line.

everyone praises lisin on his speed blahblah, but is that really a reason to want this guy on the team? he doesn't create chances or do anything it seems besides be a fast skater.

brashear is an just another rangers project that failed.

the only 2 that might belong on the "maybe" list in my eyes are voros and boyle. voros has taken a step in the right direction as of late, but the remainder of the season will tell how that is going to pan out. he may revert back to his old, super terrible self on top of getting his ass handed to him every fight. boyle, while not the youngest, is still pretty young. all he needs is a legit gritty player to mentor that can give him good tips on how to properly use his size. whether or not he'd actually be able or willing to do that though is another topic entirely.
On another thread a miffed poster defended Higgins for working hard. I'm not saying he doesn't work hard but he doesn't seem to work well with anybody. It makes me think he's kind of selfish. Mid 20's making the money he does for the production he's had--it's not going to be hard to let him go UFA this coming summer.

Kotalik sucks defensively. He's a hooking/holding penalty waiting to happen liability all over the ice. Apart from the PWP when he's on (not when he's off) he's worse than useless.

I'm not a fan of Drury's. I haven't really been since his first year here. I think he's miscast as a Captain and miscast as a scoring center. He doesn't distribute the puck well enough (especially in the offensive zone) where I like him at that position. I've always thought we should be using him more as a wing. He is a very good penalty killer but otherwise average defensively.

Relatively speaking the contracts to Voros, Brashear, Boyle and Christensen don't hurt us much and they're filler type players. Brashear's role is important though and that is hurting us.

I've always thought Girardi to be more or less solid d-man with good instincts. His skating maybe lagging a bit but made up for with good positioning. The thing the other night makes me question his committment. He would be in my core group otherwise. Committment is a big thing though. Letting Gaborik get knocked around by that puke Carcillo (who to me isn't even that tough) was not good. Not happy with him. Not Tortorella--but the least they could do is call up Sauer and let Girardi sit a for a week or so. That just wasn't acceptable.

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Old
01-23-2010, 07:33 AM
  #23
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I am all for getting tougher, without question. This softness has been eating at me for ages it seems. However, Mark Staal and the word "trade" should never be in the same sentence.

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01-23-2010, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
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Rodent's writing style makes my brain hurt... Had to stop reading his blog awhile back...
Im with you...He's a wonderful writer and smarter than everyone else...just ask him he'll tell you.

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Old
01-23-2010, 12:51 PM
  #25
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rodent is consistantly a good read
except for his rant about Domino's pizza? right?


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