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Should Girardi have stepped in on the fight

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Old
01-22-2010, 05:44 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I was disagreeing with whoever the poster was that mentioned Boogard and Orr making the same point you just made haha
Oh I definitely noticed that. Just think that last line of yours was directed at the list of players I created that have been in a fight. My bad if it wasn't lol.. I'm posting on my PS3 and navigating through posts is a pain.

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01-22-2010, 05:46 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I think guys like Girardi can protect Gaborik, and set an example, w/o intefering with that specific fight. If I'm Voros, for example, next time I'm on the ice I'm going to barrel-over Emery. Or take a 2-handed whack at Pronger's knee. Or pounce in Briere. I would retaliate in a different manner,rather than interfering and getting a third-man in penalty over a scrum Gaborik was already engaged in. If Girardi was able to seperate the fight before they squared off, I would have expected that from him as well, but from the replay's I've seen, he couldn't have known what was going to happen, until it was too late.
They shouldve went after Carcillo during the fight, after the fight and next time we play them. This was serious business and its weird that a few of you just don't get that, but hey, theres always a few.

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01-22-2010, 05:48 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
They shouldve went after Carcillo during the fight, after the fight and next time we play them. This was serious business and its weird that a few of you just don't get that, but hey, theres always a few.
I think pretty much everyone gets it.

What I don't get, and I can't speak for others, is how critical everyone's being of Girardi.

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01-22-2010, 05:53 PM
  #204
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I'm sorry guys, but reverse this situation. Completely. Flyers are buzzing around the net when the whistle blows, and some pushing and shoving happens. Then Avery basically head-locks Richards and kind forces him into fighting. Do you expect Pronger to come jumping in to kill Avery as they're engaged? I don't. I wouldn't have had any problems if Girardi did interfere, and all hell broke loose. But I also don't have a problem with him just sitting there looking stupid, because I completely understand the situation he was in. I think all 5 of our other Dmen, do the same exact thing in that situation.

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01-22-2010, 05:54 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I see the difference, but you act like something special was going on with prospal. If it's so clearcut that someone should step in there, I don't understand why Prospal's even attempting to go over there and help either. Bartulis and him were not in a "battle", they were sitting there watching Carcillo pound his fist into Gaborik's visor.

I get he's got a guy there already, and I get that he PROBABLY couldn't have done much, but if we're really going to fault Girardi for being unsure of whether or not to be the 3rd guy in, why are we not faulting the rest of the guys that, even if they couldnt have gotten there, didnt try to get there. The only one I think deserves a pass in this situation, if we're going to be THIS critical of ONE player and suggest it was a complete no-brainer to jump in, is Dubinsky, because the scrum started around him and his partner there was actually engaged with him, rather than just pairing off. And after all, Prospal's the veteran here. He wears an A. If you're going to hold Girardi accountable, why not Prospal? Just saying. I don't think either deserve to be blamed, but if someone is going to blame Girardi(there are people that have posted he needs to be traded and/or benched because of this), spread the blame to other players as well, MDZ in particular, and Prospal as well.
I'm really not repeating myself again.

It's clear from your posts that you are going to the extremes to defend Girardi in this situation. In your opinion, people that are squared off with other players are supposed to be held to the same level of criticism as Girardi who was standing right there, alone, in front of Gaborik. I totally disagree with this, as do most of the beat writers and hockey analysts, but you are entitled to this belief.

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01-22-2010, 05:54 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I think pretty much everyone gets it.

What I don't get, and I can't speak for others, is how critical everyone's being of Girardi.
Girardi is the one to single out cause he was there and he's not a 'still filling out teen' like Del Z is.

Sorry, but its almost a code in hockey, even if your best player is Messier, you don't let teams dictate anything when it comes to getting physical with him. If we had someone like Mess last night Carcillo would think about it the next time he see's Gabby in the scrap pile and THATS the point you want to make.

Ultimately, its the teams fault for not having a mean SOB out there with Gabby, but thats something the players can't control. What they can do is at least try. Only Avery could step up after the fact. Shanahan did it against Brashear a few years back. But if either were on the ice when our star was run they wouldnt of thought twice. Thats why a guy like Giradi gets hammered, cause this is something that shouldnt be contemplated, just done.

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01-22-2010, 05:56 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I'm sorry guys, but reverse this situation. Completely. Flyers are buzzing around the net when the whistle blows, and some pushing and shoving happens. Then Avery basically head-locks Richards and kind forces him into fighting. Do you expect Pronger to come jumping in to kill Avery as they're engaged? I don't. I wouldn't have had any problems if Girardi did interfere, and all hell broke loose. But I also don't have a problem with him just sitting there looking stupid, because I completely understand the situation he was in. I think all 5 of our other Dmen, do the same exact thing in that situation.
Richards is not a good example. He can more than handle himslf in a scrap.. You wouldn't have to force him to fight Avery.

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01-22-2010, 05:58 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I'm sorry guys, but reverse this situation. Completely. Flyers are buzzing around the net when the whistle blows, and some pushing and shoving happens. Then Avery basically head-locks Richards and kind forces him into fighting. Do you expect Pronger to come jumping in to kill Avery as they're engaged? I don't. I wouldn't have had any problems if Girardi did interfere, and all hell broke loose. But I also don't have a problem with him just sitting there looking stupid, because I completely understand the situation he was in. I think all 5 of our other Dmen, do the same exact thing in that situation.

The Richards comparison is not a good one. He's had about 20 fights in his NHL career and can hold his own. A player like Malkin would be a better comparison, he's had 1 fight in his career during the postseason, like Gaborik.

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01-22-2010, 05:58 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I'm sorry guys, but reverse this situation. Completely. Flyers are buzzing around the net when the whistle blows, and some pushing and shoving happens. Then Avery basically head-locks Richards and kind forces him into fighting. Do you expect Pronger to come jumping in to kill Avery as they're engaged? I don't. I wouldn't have had any problems if Girardi did interfere, and all hell broke loose. But I also don't have a problem with him just sitting there looking stupid, because I completely understand the situation he was in. I think all 5 of our other Dmen, do the same exact thing in that situation.
We'll find out next game.

Avery already challenged richards at the end of last game, obviously richards refused to fight (and avery kinda smacked his face with his glove). I'm sure avery's going to do a dirty hit or two the next flyers game, or force one of their guys to fight

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01-22-2010, 06:01 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by HAPPY HOUR View Post
Richards is not a good example. He can more than handle himslf in a scrap.. You wouldn't have to force him to fight Avery.
I guess that's what the real issue here is. It's not a question of them going after our star player. It's a matter of them attacking a player, who's too fragile to defend himself? Is that why people here are whining? I think there are quite a few people here who are underestimating Marian's toughness. He's never taken **** from anyone in this league, and has always been known to stick up for himself when a player targets him.

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01-22-2010, 06:02 PM
  #211
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01-22-2010, 06:13 PM
  #212
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I wouldnt usually say that someone should interfere in 2 grown men fighting when both drop the gloves but last night Girardi really pissed me off big time. We are basically a 2 man team and Gabby is really our only guy who can put the puck in the net or create any offense so without him we aint making the playoffs(not that we'll do anything if we get there), it should have been instinct for Girardi to get involved not stand there and watch our main scoring threat get his ass handed to him.

Although Gabby is ok things could have been so much different, Gabby is already a fragile guy injury wise so the last thing we need is him getting injured in a meaningless fight. Its easy to say now everything is fine because he didnt get hurt but, it could have went the other way and we could have lost Gabby for a while with a broken jaw or broken hand then where would we be?

At the time Girardi's thought should have been "**** this you aint starting that **** with our top man" but instead we showed once again that if you run Hank or Gabby it aint that big of a deal, Avery at least stepped up but Carcillo didnt get the ass kicking he deserved.

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01-22-2010, 06:25 PM
  #213
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If Gaborik really is that fragile, then he should probably know better than to fight a 4th line loser. There is zero emphasis put on Gaborik's decision. It's all Girardi's fault around here. Bottom line is Marian should know better. He's a lot smarter than that. He could have played possom, maybe drawn a penalty. Respect the decision he made, hold him accountable, and move the **** on already. Like I said, it was just another fight between two grown Men. Hopefully his teammates will shadow him every time he's on the ice incase he's stupid enough to let another 4th line scrub pester him into fighting. We should look into reinforcing whatever he's driving with space-age steel, incase he has a fender-bender. Then we can cover him head-to-toe with feathers, just incase he falls down. Screw it, let's just re-create the bubble they used in that stupid movie, just incase Marian's immune system isn't up to par.

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01-22-2010, 06:26 PM
  #214
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someone should have chopped caracillo's head off and set him on fire. That would send a serious message for the next game. you don't mess with us because were unpredictable and dangerous. Drury may be a psycho, watch out for him. (the quiet one)

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01-22-2010, 06:28 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by miss2leetch View Post
someone should have chopped caracillo's head off and set him on fire. That would send a serious message for the next game.
I'll say, lol

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01-22-2010, 06:35 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by miss2leetch View Post
someone should have chopped caracillo's head off and set him on fire. That would send a serious message for the next game. you don't mess with us because were unpredictable and dangerous. Drury may be a psycho, watch out for him. (the quiet one)
He definitely has him in it, as much as some may not want to admit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5JJiYnlVbI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYAZuHCghpo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQEV6umhciY

I recon the concussion(s) he's had make him shy away from it?

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01-22-2010, 06:36 PM
  #217
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Just to add Trottier's analysis from the main board.

Quote:
The answer lies in the makeup of a team.

A tight, winning team defends it's top player(s). Always. No questions asked, no meditating on the morality of the moment. A cursory review of successful NHL hockey team, from the past right up to today, is evidence of such, as there are countless examples.

I am not casually ripping NYR. And you do not want to overstate one incident. But frankly, Girardi's inaction last night speaks volumes about him and more. Likewise, Bradley's action speaks volumes too, at the opposite (positive) end of the spectrum.

And to their credit, NYR fans on their board stated as much. They get it. Likewise, their coach apparently reiterated the point to his team, after the fact.

The two incidences you cite are no reflection on AO or Gaborik, both willing combatants. They are a reflection on the respective team's collective* personality...or lack thereof.

*I am not disparaging the entire NYR roster with that comment. It is clear that Dubinsky would not sit idly if he could have gotten to the scrum. Likewise, Avery, his worts and all, should be commended for his proper response. But otherwise? Sorry, last night confirmed what many of us have suspected about this current NYT roster. Some talent, yes...and very little spine/heart.

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01-22-2010, 07:05 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
You're kidding me right? Boogard? Orr? Parros? If you're going to attempt a comparison, do a better job because Carcillo isn't even close to a heavyweight. He's an agitator, and plays a very similar role to Avery. Yup, Sean Avery. The same cat that has challenged many of the exceptional players I listed that have fought in this league.
So now you're playing "Six Degrees of Daniel Carcillo"? Connecting Carcillo to Gaborik by going through Sean Avery? Since the 07-08 season here's how the fighting majors look:

Carcillo - 53
Avery - 18

That's a weak comparison. Carcillo has very limited hockey skill and by his number of fighting majors looks to throw at every opportunity. Its embarassing to player with the skill level of Avery to put Carcillo in the same sentence.

Heavyweight or not, Carcillo plays the role of goon. Avery is far from it.

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01-22-2010, 07:13 PM
  #219
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An absolute embarassment!

I am once again embarassed as a fan of this team, Girardi needs to act immediately, without thought or question, it should be automatic/instinct.
Only reason Girardi is singled out is he was standing right there, but 95% of this roster and all of our post-lockout rosters would not have jumped in.

No one even responds the rest of the game except Avery, little guy big heart. Dubinsky showed some heart in the box, but did not respond the rest of the game.
No one takes a run at Gagne, Carter, Timmonen, Giroux, one good hit on Briere, these guys needed to be run every shift following that incident...EMBARASSING. They better be embarassed as a team, I know I am as a fan.

They where so obviously intimidated by the Flyers toughness and physicality last night, you could see it on their faces. This team is and has been so ridiculously soft it is infuriating, an enforcer is not the answer, the days of true enforcers are gone, team toughness though is essential to winning hockey.

I'm pissed, discouraged, and most of all EMBARASSED!
What a bunch of ****ing *****ies!

When confronted with a physically intimidating situation we have a natural "fight or flight" instinct...unfortunately the vast majority of our teams instinct is "flight".


Last edited by N9Y4R: 01-22-2010 at 07:36 PM.
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01-22-2010, 07:16 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by WolfPackFan07 View Post
So now you're playing "Six Degrees of Daniel Carcillo"? Connecting Carcillo to Gaborik by going through Sean Avery? Since the 07-08 season here's how the fighting majors look:

Carcillo - 53
Avery - 18

That's a weak comparison. Carcillo has very limited hockey skill and by his number of fighting majors looks to throw at every opportunity. Its embarassing to player with the skill level of Avery to put Carcillo in the same sentence.

Heavyweight or not, Carcillo plays the role of goon. Avery is far from it.
Boogard's 6'8, 260 pounds. Parros is 6'5, in his 230's. Carcillo isn't even 6 feet tall, and he's barely over 200lbs. Try and word, or spin it anyway you want, your comparison was awful.

Using fighting majors as a crutch doesn't dispute anything. Gaborik wasn't facing a legitimate heavyweight like the guys you listed.

And I made no comparison's with Avery and Carcillo, aside from the fact that they agitate, often targeting other teams better players.

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01-22-2010, 07:31 PM
  #221
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Will just add a couple of quick points here.

Does anyone remember the Cup contending and Cup winning Ranger teams of the early to mid-90s?

If you got near Mark Messier, you had to deal with Adam Graves' fists. Of course, Messier could handle himself. But a smart, tight winning (no coincidence) team didn't require him to. One can count on a single hand the number of times Messier had to drop his gloves in his time with NYR.

Yes, that was waaaaayy back in the prehistoric, pre-Dead Puck era ...and this is the Nuuu NHL (baby). But the same rules of the ice and team cohesiveness apply...and always will.

This really has nothing to do with Gaborik or even Carcillo, for that matter. It has everything to do with others on the ice at the time for NYR.

For the NYR historians here, first thought that popped into my mind last night:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82pEAetLXrY

Not suggesting the situations were the same, but you get the point.

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01-22-2010, 07:32 PM
  #222
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Hey anyone here go to the viewing party at Foxwoods for the game lastnight? I would love to know what Graves and the others had to say about the Gabby fight and Girardi watching.

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01-22-2010, 07:40 PM
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Will just add a couple of quick points here.

Does anyone remember the Cup contending and Cup winning Ranger teams of the early to mid-90s?

If you got near Mark Messier, you had to deal with Adam Graves' fists. Of course, Messier could handle himself. But a smart, tight winning (no coincidence) team didn't require him to. One can count on a single hand the number of times Messier had to drop his gloves in his time with NYR.

Yes, that was waaaaayy back in the prehistoric, pre-Dead Puck era ...and this is the Nuuu NHL (baby). But the same rules of the ice and team cohesiveness apply...and always will.

This really has nothing to do with Gaborik or even Carcillo, for that matter. It has everything to do with others on the ice at the time for NYR.

For the NYR historians here, first thought that popped into my mind last night:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82pEAetLXrY

Not suggesting the situations were the same, but you get the point.
As usual Trotts your right. Scary that a Islanders fan can see whats happening and too many Rangers fans are missing the boat. The fact isn't that Gabby wanted to fight or that he's a man and should be left to fight his own battles. The fact is that his teammates shouldn't have let it happen. If this had happened 15 years ago you would have had half the team jumping on Carcillo. This team doesn't get it! As many times as we've seen the King run with no response why should anyone be surprised by yesterdays events??? This is team PUSSIFICATION and we've surrendered more times in one season then the country of France has in its history. Truly pathetic!!!!

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01-22-2010, 07:40 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Hey anyone here go to the viewing party at Foxwoods for the game lastnight? I would love to know what Graves and the others had to say about the Gabby fight and Girardi watching.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OTtN2Vv500

I think I can imagine what Adam Graves would have said.

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01-22-2010, 07:42 PM
  #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfPackFan07 View Post
So now you're playing "Six Degrees of Daniel Carcillo"? Connecting Carcillo to Gaborik by going through Sean Avery? Since the 07-08 season here's how the fighting majors look:

Carcillo - 53
Avery - 18

That's a weak comparison. Carcillo has very limited hockey skill and by his number of fighting majors looks to throw at every opportunity. Its embarassing to player with the skill level of Avery to put Carcillo in the same sentence.

Heavyweight or not, Carcillo plays the role of goon. Avery is far from it.
Since when does Quantity mean quality? Fact of the matter is Carcillo is about the same "skill" level as Avery when it comes to fighting. He can fight 100 times a year, doesn't mean he's better than Avery at fighting.

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