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Why trade Stajan?

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Old
01-22-2010, 03:30 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by 080 View Post
The problem is can Bozak handle that position? He's an unknown right now. Same goes for Kadri. Kadri needs at least another year or two in the minors/AHL. I don't think Stajan is all that great but he's been fairly decent this year and last.

I think everyone wants for Burke to trade for or sign a top centerman but sometimes **** doesn't always go the way you want - there aren't always trades available or players wanting to come here.

But at this point I'd prefer to see Stajan over Bozak or Grabovski - unless Bozak is able to show that he's a legit second-line center and can usurp Stajan, then I have no problem trading Matty.
The problem is, you're not going to get your definitive answer on Bozak this season. I think he looks like an NHL calibre player, not out of place in the least. But, that isn't a "done deal". So, you can sign Stajan to a bad 3 or 4 year contract and get saddled with him down the road, or you take a chance that Bozak can play. I honestly see no problem whatsoever getting a Stajan calibre player down the road if need be, it's not like there will be a huge bidding war come July 1 for big money.

What can you get for Grabs with that contract? Not much, so you move to the centerman you can move, and that's Stajan.

If we were talking about a high quality player, I'd be concerned. We are talking about an average centerman, so if we lose him, no big setback in my mind. I'd rather watch Kadri's growing pains, than more of Stajan and his inconsistency.

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01-22-2010, 03:31 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Although I kinda agree with you, just realize you are taking away 3 forwards and a defenceman, while adding one forward. Is this a better team? Only if Bozak, Gunnarson, Schenn, Stahlberg, and Kadri develop to the point of making up the difference. It could happen, and I'm ok with it, but that's a lot of bodies to move out, and I'm not sure of the trade value of Hags, Grabs, Finger or Blake.

Also in your scenario, you have a lot of salary in the AHL.
You cant really count Finger seeing as he isnt in out top 7 even. I my hope is that 2 of Kadri, Stahlberg, Hanson, or any other prospect make the forward lineup.

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01-22-2010, 03:33 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Poggemon Destiny View Post
We will trade Stajan and Poni and acquire Armstrong and Ott in the offseason and then wonder why our offense sucks.
Why won't Atlanta trade us colby Armstrong? ponny for armstrong i would say is a fair trade? Also for trading Stajan, I say trade him for another player. wondering if Chicago would swap us Stajan and a prospect or 2 for Sharp. doubt we have any chance at getting that guy. but would be good if we could get him, even if we take another guy as a salary dump for them.

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01-22-2010, 03:39 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Professor Truculence View Post
Tomas Kaberle roflcopter
Well I'm not sure it was Kaberle's intention to provide any home town discount..

He was making $2.25 mil coming out of the lockout and then chose to resign with the Leafs for $4.25 on his new deal which was a $2 mil per season raise. So from Kaberle's perspective at the time he was nearly going to double his Salary with his new deal.

It was his timing that might have played a part in his savings now for Leafs, as Kabs agreed to an extension mid season and then all heck broke loose come UFA season with inflated contracts as the news of an increasing Salary Cap and more $$$ for GM's to spend was announced after the season.

McCabe held out, and didn't sign at the same time as Kabs and received $5.75 mil as a result. So it makes Kabs contract look like a bargain but it may never have been the intended plan..

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01-22-2010, 03:39 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by champ0053 View Post
Why won't Atlanta trade us colby Armstrong? ponny for armstrong i would say is a fair trade? Also for trading Stajan, I say trade him for another player. wondering if Chicago would swap us Stajan and a prospect or 2 for Sharp. doubt we have any chance at getting that guy. but would be good if we could get him, even if we take another guy as a salary dump for them.
Atlanta might like that to, because it reunites Poni with Antropov.

I'd love to have Armstrong.

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01-22-2010, 03:42 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by champ0053 View Post
Why won't Atlanta trade us colby Armstrong? ponny for armstrong i would say is a fair trade? Also for trading Stajan, I say trade him for another player. wondering if Chicago would swap us Stajan and a prospect or 2 for Sharp. doubt we have any chance at getting that guy. but would be good if we could get him, even if we take another guy as a salary dump for them.
We are not a playoff team and IMO it is too risky to trade for any UFAs, I would much rather wait until the off-season

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01-22-2010, 03:42 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Shaun_W_W View Post
Trade Hagman (3) and Grabs (3), waive Finger(3.5) and Blake(4), that will give you plenty of money to re-sign Stajan and Pony as well as a big name like Marleau as well as depth like an Armstrong or an Ott like player.
This is what I would like to see happen. But I think I'd keep Hagman for the second-line. Having a second-line that costs in total somewhere between 9 - 11 million is pretty decent - especially if they can all put up about 50 points, with Hagman and Ponikarovsky likely hitting around 25 goals each.

I think one of the major problems is that people have this notion that Stajan is the first-line center and that's not what I'm saying. He may have to play that role for a season or two but I'm trying to think ahead when the Leafs (hopefully) have a legit #1 center and then Stajan becomes the #2 guy.

I also think people tend to forget that Stajan was around before the lockout, when the team actually was winning. He was there when Nolan, Sundin, Nieuwendyk and Roberts were all there and I'm willing to bet he learned a fair bit from all of those guys. I don't know how much I buy the whole 'culture of losing' thing - it's not the teams fault that they aren't very skilled individually.

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01-22-2010, 03:45 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
Keep falling in love with mediocrity Leaf fans!!
54th in overall scoring and 25th overall in scoring for centers, and some of the guys ahead of him play wing but are listed as centers on the NHL stats page.

You think 25th overall is BAD in the NHL? I don't think so. Yeah, he's not a top line guy, but if you expected him to be then you're an absolute moron and came into this season with unfair expectations. As a 2nd line player he's fine, it's not his fault this team hasn't been able to get anyone to play ahead of him on the roster.

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01-22-2010, 03:52 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Caesium View Post
54th in overall scoring and 25th overall in scoring for centers, and some of the guys ahead of him play wing but are listed as centers on the NHL stats page.

You think 25th overall is BAD in the NHL? I don't think so. Yeah, he's not a top line guy, but if you expected him to be then you're an absolute moron and came into this season with unfair expectations. As a 2nd line player he's fine, it's not his fault this team hasn't been able to get anyone to play ahead of him on the roster.
Ya, that's why nobody is beating down Burke's door to land this top 25 center in the NHL. Maybe they saw all those passes to Kessel at our own blueline

I'll say it again, apart from Leaf fans, nobody I've read or heard pegs Stajan as a legit 2nd centerman on a good club. Believe what you want, I could care less.

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01-22-2010, 03:56 PM
  #60
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The problem is, you're not going to get your definitive answer on Bozak this season. I think he looks like an NHL calibre player, not out of place in the least. But, that isn't a "done deal". So, you can sign Stajan to a bad 3 or 4 year contract and get saddled with him down the road, or you take a chance that Bozak can play. I honestly see no problem whatsoever getting a Stajan calibre player down the road if need be, it's not like there will be a huge bidding war come July 1 for big money.

What can you get for Grabs with that contract? Not much, so you move to the centerman you can move, and that's Stajan.

If we were talking about a high quality player, I'd be concerned. We are talking about an average centerman, so if we lose him, no big setback in my mind. I'd rather watch Kadri's growing pains, than more of Stajan and his inconsistency.
I understand what you're saying but I'm almost positive we're likely going into next season with two of: Stajan, Bozak or Grabovski as our top-two centers because there isn't going to be much else available. I'm sure Burke is going to explore trade options but I don't know how many centers that are better than Stajan will be available - I mean, there's no sense is trading a bunch of assets for someone who is only marginally better than Stajan.

Since we're not getting a first-rounder for a while, I think next years free agency is going to be the time to get a center, when there's a bunch that will hopefully be available. Until then you go with two of those three guys or three if you have to and then see who you want to get rid of.

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01-22-2010, 03:58 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
Ya, that's why nobody is beating down Burke's door to land this top 25 center in the NHL. Maybe they saw all those passes to Kessel at our own blueline

I'll say it again, apart from Leaf fans, nobody I've read or heard pegs Stajan as a legit 2nd centerman on a good club. Believe what you want, I could care less.
Unsubstantiated argument followed by innaccurate synopsis of player's play, arrogant winky face.

False statement of player's value as depicted by other message boards that I do not read. Statement about how much I do not care about this topic, even though I seem to be posting a lot about it.

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01-22-2010, 03:58 PM
  #62
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I will say, I hope these padded stats on a bad team help his trade value. Maybe they'll fool some GM, like they do here.

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01-22-2010, 04:00 PM
  #63
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This is what I would like to see happen. But I think I'd keep Hagman for the second-line. Having a second-line that costs in total somewhere between 9 - 11 million is pretty decent - especially if they can all put up about 50 points, with Hagman and Ponikarovsky likely hitting around 25 goals each.
So if you want $9 000 000 on your 2nd line, you need to cut salary from the 1st, 3rd or 4th lines, defence or goalies and play without any spares for the seaon.

Marleau=$6 500 000
Kessel= $5 400 000
other winger= $3 500 000

total =$15 400 000

Goaltending $6 000 000
Defence $20 000 000
2nd line $9 000 000


approx $50 000 000 on your top 6, defence and goalies.

$6 000 000 to fill out the roster.

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01-22-2010, 04:01 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Caesium View Post
Unsubstantiated argument followed by innaccurate synopsis of player's play, arrogant winky face.

False statement of player's value as depicted by other message boards that I do not read. Statement about how much I do not care about this topic, even though I seem to be posting a lot about it.
Fans? Please. I'm talking about hockey people I've heard or read. Everyone agrees, Stajan is a marginal second line center. They must be biased.

As for the winky face, every single assist I saw him get with Kessel was pure PUFF. He could have had a few more if he could deliver a quality pass half the time.

I think he's played well lately, might even get above that wicked career high of 16 goals in 7 SEASONS.

I want a cup, not PLUGS.

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01-22-2010, 04:03 PM
  #65
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Nobody is in love with mediocrity. Stajan is an awesome third liner and a really good second.

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01-22-2010, 04:03 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by SteveV View Post
Ya, that's why nobody is beating down Burke's door to land this top 25 center in the NHL. Maybe they saw all those passes to Kessel at our own blueline

I'll say it again, apart from Leaf fans, nobody I've read or heard pegs Stajan as a legit 2nd centerman on a good club. Believe what you want, I could care less.
I think Stajan is better then Grabs, and if we don't keep one of them then we go into the UFA market with only prospects possibly taking either of our top two. IMO our best move to be a better team is to upgrade Grabs to Stajan and then trade Grabs.

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01-22-2010, 04:04 PM
  #67
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Nobody is in love with mediocrity. Stajan is an awesome third liner and a really good second.
I think Stajan is a really good 3rd liner and a decent 2nd liner.

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01-22-2010, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Shaun_W_W View Post
I think Stajan is better then Grabs, and if we don't keep one of them then we go into the UFA market with only prospects possibly taking either of our top two. IMO our best move to be a better team is to upgrade Grabs to Stajan and then trade Grabs.
He might be better than Grabs, but it is harder to move Grabs. That's the point. They're both whatever centerman, but one is more attractive trade bait. I don't see either of them in the long term plans, we just might have to wait to move Grabs.

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01-22-2010, 04:11 PM
  #69
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I think Stajan is a really good 3rd liner and a decent 2nd liner.
Fair enough, but statistics don't back up what you're saying at all.

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01-22-2010, 04:22 PM
  #70
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I love Matty, and think he's easily worth $3 mil.....but we have to be moving some other players if we want to keep him.

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01-22-2010, 04:30 PM
  #71
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Fair enough, but statistics don't back up what you're saying at all.
Yea, I'm not a stats guy.

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01-22-2010, 04:51 PM
  #72
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2nd Line Centres on Contenders v. Stajan - this year + last year:

PIT E.Malkin (23): 127gms, 52gls, 163pts, 22:07 (82gms, 34gls, 105pts)
BUF D.Roy (26): 129gms, 39gls, 106pts, 20:20 (82gms, 25gls, 67pts)
VAN R.Kesler (25): 132gms, 39gls, 102pts, 19:31 (82gms, 24gls, 63pts)
SJS J.Pavelski (25): 117gms, 35gls, 87pts, 19:04 (82gms, 25gls, 61pts)
TOR M.Stajan (25): 127gms, 30gls, 93pts, 17:45 (82gms, 20gls, 60pts)
CAL D.Langkow (32): 124gms, 32gls, 79pts, 17:55 (82gms, 21gls, 52pts)
WAS T.Fleischmann (25): 112gms, 36gls, 70pts, 15:31 (82gms, 26gls, 51pts)
CHI D.Bolland (23): 94gms, 21gls, 53pts, 16:52 (82gms, 18gls, 46pts)
DET V.Filppula (25): 104gms, 15gls, 54ps, 16:29 (82gms, 12gls, 43pts)
NJD D.Zubrus (31): 102gms, 17gls, 47pts, 15:34 (82gms, 14gls, 38pts)

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01-22-2010, 04:52 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
So if you want $9 000 000 on your 2nd line, you need to cut salary from the 1st, 3rd or 4th lines, defence or goalies and play without any spares for the seaon.

Marleau=$6 500 000
Kessel= $5 400 000
other winger= $3 500 000

total =$15 400 000

Goaltending $6 000 000
Defence $20 000 000
2nd line $9 000 000


approx $50 000 000 on your top 6, defence and goalies.

$6 000 000 to fill out the roster.
We're talking about a subject which requires precise calculations - guessing at figures can skew an argument in either direction. Maybe the goaltending only costs 4 million? Maybe the defense is chopped down to, say, 18 million? Maybe we get a playmaking-center who only costs 5.5 million? Now there's 11 million to fill out the roster.

All I'm saying is that 9 million on a second-line which can put up some pretty good stats is worth it. Currently, the guys we have on our bottom-two lines - guys like Mayers and Primeau who make 1.4 and Stempniak who makes 2.5 can likely be replaced by guys who make 500,000 to 1,000,000 and perhaps one player who makes a little bit more because he's good defensively.

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01-22-2010, 04:54 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
2nd Line Centres on Contenders v. Stajan - this year + last year:

PIT E.Malkin (23): 127gms, 52gls, 163pts, 22:07 (82gms, 34gls, 105pts)
BUF D.Roy (26): 129gms, 39gls, 106pts, 20:20 (82gms, 25gls, 67pts)
VAN R.Kesler (25): 132gms, 39gls, 102pts, 19:31 (82gms, 24gls, 63pts)
SJS J.Pavelski (25): 117gms, 35gls, 87pts, 19:04 (82gms, 25gls, 61pts)
TOR M.Stajan (25): 127gms, 30gls, 93pts, 17:45 (82gms, 20gls, 60pts)
CAL D.Langkow (32): 124gms, 32gls, 79pts, 17:55 (82gms, 21gls, 52pts)
WAS T.Fleischmann (25): 112gms, 36gls, 70pts, 15:31 (82gms, 26gls, 51pts)
CHI D.Bolland (23): 94gms, 21gls, 53pts, 16:52 (82gms, 18gls, 46pts)
DET V.Filppula (25): 104gms, 15gls, 54ps, 16:29 (82gms, 12gls, 43pts)
NJD D.Zubrus (31): 102gms, 17gls, 47pts, 15:34 (82gms, 14gls, 38pts)
If Roy isn't their first center then who the hell is?

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01-22-2010, 04:56 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
2nd Line Centres on Contenders v. Stajan - this year + last year:

PIT E.Malkin (23): 127gms, 52gls, 163pts, 22:07 (82gms, 34gls, 105pts)
BUF D.Roy (26): 129gms, 39gls, 106pts, 20:20 (82gms, 25gls, 67pts)
VAN R.Kesler (25): 132gms, 39gls, 102pts, 19:31 (82gms, 24gls, 63pts)
SJS J.Pavelski (25): 117gms, 35gls, 87pts, 19:04 (82gms, 25gls, 61pts)
TOR M.Stajan (25): 127gms, 30gls, 93pts, 17:45 (82gms, 20gls, 60pts)
CAL D.Langkow (32): 124gms, 32gls, 79pts, 17:55 (82gms, 21gls, 52pts)
WAS T.Fleischmann (25): 112gms, 36gls, 70pts, 15:31 (82gms, 26gls, 51pts)
CHI D.Bolland (23): 94gms, 21gls, 53pts, 16:52 (82gms, 18gls, 46pts)
DET V.Filppula (25): 104gms, 15gls, 54ps, 16:29 (82gms, 12gls, 43pts)
NJD D.Zubrus (31): 102gms, 17gls, 47pts, 15:34 (82gms, 14gls, 38pts)
I think you really have to remove Malkin for this comparison to be fair (not only to Stajan but to other players). Since no other team in the league - except for Detroit I guess, if Zetterberg and Datsyuk both get going - has that type of skill on the second-line.

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