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Jonesey's Open Letter To Katz

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Old
01-24-2010, 12:10 PM
  #26
Tyrolean
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The owner can always move this team elsewhere so the fans don't have much leverage in the NHL's smallest market.

If he really want to make an impact, he should fire the current upper management starting with the President (I'd keep the coaches though) and get better proven people to run the organization.

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01-24-2010, 12:16 PM
  #27
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the Oilers have an eberle, an mps, an omark, a gagner, a cogliano, an o'sullivan, a grebeshkov, a smid, a chorney, a petry, etc etc...

we might not be chicago but we're not starting from nowhere if we start rebuilding (For real) today.


to paraphrase the simpsons.. there are potentially some flowers here that could grow out of this pot of dirt.

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01-24-2010, 12:16 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by erixon View Post
So if they don't have the pieces now, they will never have them, or be able to acquire them in the next few years? Taylor Hall wouldn't help the cause?
Sure they can and Hall would be a good step.

Likely Eberle was the real start of the process but they have a long way to go and a very difficult job managing the cap thanlks to the contracts Lowe handed out.

And, as Jones points out, do you want the people cleaning up the mess to be the same people who created it in the first place?

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01-24-2010, 12:20 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Sure they can and Hall would be a good step.

Likely Eberle was the real start of the process but they have a long way to go and a very difficult job managing the cap thanlks to the contracts Lowe handed out.

And, as Jones points out, do you want the people cleaning up the mess to be the same people who created it in the first place?
At least they know what they did wrong.

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Old
01-24-2010, 12:28 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Do they have a Statsny, a Wolski, a Duchene, a Stewart and an O'Reilly.
I remember the euologies for the Avs over the last couple years.

I think this comment is very telling. Does Edmonton have a Wolski?

Hmm, let's see. A fairly promising first round pick who made the team quite young, but then plateaued for 3 years, before finally stepping up as a legitimate Top 6 player on a good team.

No, we can't possibly have any players like that in our organization. It's hopeless.

Just like it was for the Avs last year.

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Old
01-24-2010, 12:29 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
And another one.

7 more years in the wilderness:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...93306-sun.html
Good article as was the Jones piece.
The truth is ugly and there is no easy solution.

Katz has been part of the problem so far so I don't expect a turnaround anytime soon.

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Old
01-24-2010, 12:30 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Tyrolean View Post
At least they know what they did wrong.
There's no proof to show that they've learned from it.

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Old
01-24-2010, 12:32 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
And another one.

7 more years in the wilderness:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...93306-sun.html
The Oilers won't tell their fans what their plan is, but from what we've been led to believe by their on-air spin doctor, the goal is to finish in the lottery four years in a row, load up like Washington, Pittsburgh and Chicago did and rise back up to glory

I wonder who this "spin doctor" would be...

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Old
01-24-2010, 12:33 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by JonQuixote View Post
I remember the euologies for the Avs over the last couple years.

I think this comment is very telling. Does Edmonton have a Wolski?

Hmm, let's see. A fairly promising first round pick who made the team quite young, but then plateaued for 3 years, before finally stepping up as a legitimate Top 6 player on a good team.

No, we can't possibly have any players like that in our organization. It's hopeless.

Just like it was for the Avs last year.
I assume you mean Gagner and yes that is possible but there are a few size and speed differences at play there.

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Old
01-24-2010, 01:03 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
I assume you mean Gagner and yes that is possible but there are a few size and speed differences at play there.
Gagner isn't displaying the hockey sense Wolski is showing.

I think one has to look at mentors in this. Wolski had been surrounded by solid players like Hejduk and Sakic for years.

Nothing wrong with learning from the best.

Who is tutoring or being an all round on ice mentor for Gagner?

Hemsky?

Development here sucks because we don't bring/keep guys here that would develop the young players.

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01-24-2010, 01:04 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Gagner isn't displaying the hockey sense Wolski is showing.

I think one has to look at mentors in this. Wolski had been surrounded by solid players like Hejduk and Sakic for years.

Nothing wrong with learning from the best.

Who is tutoring or being an all round on ice mentor for Gagner?

Hemsky?

Development here sucks because we don't bring/keep guys here that would develop the young players.
A very good point.

I'm thinking Ryan Smyth might have been a great mentor for Gagner.

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01-24-2010, 01:05 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
I assume you mean Gagner and yes that is possible but there are a few size and speed differences at play there.
I could also mean Cogliano. To a different degree, I could also mean Smid, or any number of young Oilers whose play has been disappointing at the NHL level for most of their career. And really, the size and speed are red herrings. It's not just the really big and the really fast players that sometimes take a while to develop.

The important thing to consider, I think, is that players, especially young players, aren't defined entirely by their current play or by troubles in their development. They move at different rates. Gagner isn't Kane, who stepped into the NHL at 19 as a borderline superstar already. But at the same age Gagner is now, Parise - another small offensive-forward without blazing physical or locomotive skills - was making his pro-debut in the AHL. All season long. Nilsson hasn't really had much of an impact and has played most of his career in the doghouse. Maybe he's a bust. Or maybe he's Kristian Huselius, and will develop into a solid 2nd line sniper for the latter half of his 20s.

There's talent on this team, and cause for as much optimism as cynicism. It's not guaranteed that all or most of these players will hit. But odds are good that one or two will.

There's a good start here. The hope has to be that the management will identify the ones worth keeping.

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Old
01-24-2010, 01:09 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Gagner isn't displaying the hockey sense Wolski is showing.
And he's not playing at the same level right now either.

The point is that prior to this year, for the past couple seasons, there was similar outcry and sentiment. Last year the sentiment wasn't "Oh well, Wolski is struggling but that's okay, he's a lock to be a 30 goal, 70 point guy eventually." His development had levelled off, his play was poor, and the eulogies for the once great Avs were bountiful.

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Old
01-24-2010, 01:10 PM
  #39
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Jones blasting Katz for not speaking out.

Where have we heard that before?

Jones is just upset he doesn't get easy print quotes from the owner. In his spare time Jones is still scouring the innernets to see if he can find anything to take the mask off Katz.

Personally I'm not sure how much I would want Katz speaking out or putting his fingers in the pie.

I've wondered already if he's the one thats been driving the rainbow chasing. I think he has been speaking in a sense and uttering Vanek, Hossa, Heatley, Khabi..in his sleep.

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Old
01-24-2010, 01:13 PM
  #40
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If our target is to emulate Pittsburgh or Chicago, then sure, 7 years may be right.

But what about Buffalo? They currently sit 5th overall in the league and are arguably one impact player away from being legit Cup contenders. Of Rich Winter's formula:

-Three of the NHL's top 20 forwards.

-Two of the NHL's top 20 defencemen.

-One of the NHL's top 10 goalies

they only have one component - Ryan Miller. No forward is a PPG player and I doubt you could classify Tyler Myers as one of the top 20 d-men in the league today. They play an entertaining, fast game and score by committee.

If we can develop some of the young players we have, I think we are only a couple of years away from being a Buffalo-type team. Key to this is Dubnyk. If he can't become a legit top 10 goalie, management needs to look elsewhere.

Seems like a lot of doom and gloom because we cannot be Pittsburgh or Chicago. But there's more than one way to skin a cat, right?

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Old
01-24-2010, 01:13 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Gagner isn't displaying the hockey sense Wolski is showing.

I think one has to look at mentors in this. Wolski had been surrounded by solid players like Hejduk and Sakic for years.

Nothing wrong with learning from the best.

Who is tutoring or being an all round on ice mentor for Gagner?

Hemsky?

Development here sucks because we don't bring/keep guys here that would develop the young players.
And that's why you bring in a guy like Jagr. Or Doug Weight. Why the Oilers have never tried bringing back Weight as a mentor is beyond me. I would have done it 2 years ago.

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01-24-2010, 01:14 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Sure they can and Hall would be a good step.

Likely Eberle was the real start of the process but they have a long way to go and a very difficult job managing the cap thanlks to the contracts Lowe handed out.

And, as Jones points out, do you want the people cleaning up the mess to be the same people who created it in the first place?
But it would be the GM cleaning up the mess, and if i am not mistaken he was just hired at the end of last season was he not? I am speaking as an LA fan, but i have always watched the Oilers as i had lived in Edmonton for years, and truly hope the disaster of a year will bring them good things in the future.

LA yes has Kopitar, but some of the other forward pieces can be recreated, and you guys have solid young pieces in place, with some potentially good prospects in the system.

Over the last three seasons of the Kings rebuild, three things in my mind made a major difference. The first being Quick which was a blessing and a bit of a surprise to me, and then blowing out to acquire Doughty. This year it is having a solid mentor in Smyth for players like Kopitar, something they had never had, and your young Oilers, have not had, including O'Sullivan. I see you guys in almost the same place, with Tambellini sitting in the same situation as DL was after his first season with the Kings. The difference, is DL loves to talk, and even when he has screwed up royally he still communicates. If your GM communicates what i believe he is already in the process of doing, it should reassure people.

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Old
01-24-2010, 01:14 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by JonQuixote View Post
And he's not playing at the same level right now either.

The point is that prior to this year, for the past couple seasons, there was similar outcry and sentiment. Last year the sentiment wasn't "Oh well, Wolski is struggling but that's okay, he's a lock to be a 30 goal, 70 point guy eventually." His development had levelled off, his play was poor, and the eulogies for the once great Avs were bountiful.
I was always high on Wolski. Not too worried last year as the whole club fell in the gutter.

Gagner will be fine as well but I can't help but think he needs some models to elevate his all round game and consistency.

Gagners on a good pace though and doing well. Its also possible he might be one of the future nucleus that indoctrinates our younger playes. But until that time we could use some mentors.

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Old
01-24-2010, 01:15 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by JonQuixote View Post
I could also mean Cogliano. To a different degree, I could also mean Smid, or any number of young Oilers whose play has been disappointing at the NHL level for most of their career. And really, the size and speed are red herrings. It's not just the really big and the really fast players that sometimes take a while to develop.

The important thing to consider, I think, is that players, especially young players, aren't defined entirely by their current play or by troubles in their development. They move at different rates. Gagner isn't Kane, who stepped into the NHL at 19 as a borderline superstar already. But at the same age Gagner is now, Parise - another small offensive-forward without blazing physical or locomotive skills - was making his pro-debut in the AHL. All season long. Nilsson hasn't really had much of an impact and has played most of his career in the doghouse. Maybe he's a bust. Or maybe he's Kristian Huselius, and will develop into a solid 2nd line sniper for the latter half of his 20s.

There's talent on this team, and cause for as much optimism as cynicism. It's not guaranteed that all or most of these players will hit. But odds are good that one or two will.

There's a good start here. The hope has to be that the management will identify the ones worth keeping.

Oh, I agree but remember this management team was ready to ship out Penner, Cogliano and Smid.

Do you have confidence they have a clue how to build a winner?

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Old
01-24-2010, 01:16 PM
  #45
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And that's why you bring in a guy like Jagr. Or Doug Weight. Why the Oilers have never tried bringing back Weight as a mentor is beyond me. I would have done it 2 years ago.
Agreed and I've said the same. I could never understand why this club didn't go hard for Weight.

Instead we get the Comrie sequel..

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Old
01-24-2010, 01:17 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
The question is, does Edmonton have solid pieces in the organization.

Do they have a Lecavalier, a St.Louis or a Stamkos?

Do they have a Statsny, a Wolski, a Duchene, a Stewart and an O'Reilly.

Do they have a Kopitar, a Douhty, a Brown, a Simmonds, a Quick?

I don't really need to lay out the arrows Chicago has in the quiver, do I?
So the likes of Hemsky, Gagner, Penner, Smid, MSP, Eberle, Lander etc aren't solid pieces? Throw in Chorney who will be a player as well.

None of the Oilers players got to learn from Sakic, or was a second overall selection. You hack on Gagner like he's a scrub but fail to realize he and Wolski have tracked nearly identical numbers over their first three seasons in the league, aside from the fact Wolski scores more and Gagner gets more assists.

You asked if we have the pieces, hell yeah we do. We also have quite a few of those pieces before we're due to draft top three in every round like the Avs did only last year. Keep the blinders on and make your biased arguments all you want.


Last edited by Redwood Original: 01-24-2010 at 01:43 PM. Reason: schpelling!
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Old
01-24-2010, 01:17 PM
  #47
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But it would be the GM cleaning up the mess, and if i am not mistaken he was just hired at the end of last season was he not? I am speaking as an LA fan, but i have always watched the Oilers as i had lived in Edmonton for years, and truly hope the disaster of a year will bring them good things in the future.

LA yes has Kopitar, but some of the other forward pieces can be recreated, and you guys have solid young pieces in place, with some potentially good prospects in the system.

Over the last three seasons of the Kings rebuild, three things in my mind made a major difference. The first being Quick which was a blessing and a bit of a surprise to me, and then blowing out to acquire Doughty. This year it is having a solid mentor in Smyth for players like Kopitar, something they had never had, and your young Oilers, have not had, including O'Sullivan. I see you guys in almost the same place, with Tambellini sitting in the same situation as DL was after his first season with the Kings. The difference, is DL loves to talk, and even when he has screwed up royally he still communicates. If your GM communicates what i believe he is already in the process of doing, it should reassure people.
This would be the same GM that signed Khabibulin to a four year contract?

Yikes.

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Old
01-24-2010, 01:25 PM
  #48
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Stupid Letter. Jones just a baby cause Katz doesnt want to talk to him
which part of this article is untrue though? just cause Jones doesn't get his quotes from Katz doesn't make this article false

good on him for ripping this organization for their faults
they do have awful contracts
they do overrated their prospects
the fans are turning apathetic which is fatal

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Old
01-24-2010, 01:27 PM
  #49
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I just spun a wheel of numbers for a rebuild. It landed on 3. We'll say 3.

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01-24-2010, 01:30 PM
  #50
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I'm not the biggest fan of Large, but he hit the nail on the head with this one.

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