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Jonesey's Open Letter To Katz

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Old
01-24-2010, 02:29 PM
  #76
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Regarding TB: even with Vinny, St. Louis, Stamkos and Hedman and playing in the SE they're still a lottery team so far this year. Interesting...

P.S. They better not win the lottery!

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01-24-2010, 02:31 PM
  #77
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Regarding TB: even with Vinny, St. Louis, Stamkos and Hedman and playing in the SE they're still a lottery team so far this year. Interesting...

P.S. They better not win the lottery!
They're sort of a lottery team. Tied for 25th.

Three points out of playoff spot. That's how much parity there is in the East right now.

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01-24-2010, 02:42 PM
  #78
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That's because Tampa Bay is coming out of two bottom-two seasons where we're half way through our first. Again, there's no argument against the lack of a Hedman or Stamkos level prospect in the system, that's an issue that's being resolved the only way it can (for us): By losing lots.



The Hawks are at the end of this rebuild.

Hell if I know what the Oilers roster will look like even next year, but I whole-heartedly believe it's a matter of sorting out the top of the roster. I do have faith in the complimentary talent in the system (both at the NHL level and in the prospect pool).



You asked the question.

Truth be told, I could have easily used Cogliano or whoever against Ryan O'Reilly. It's not as though O'Reilly has impressive numbers or really, any numbers of any kind since the first 15 games of the season.



In and out of the line-up with injuries has nothing to do with that?

Actually, in his last 20 games he's gone: 5-6-11 E. He was 6-6-12 -1 in the previous 22 games.



I'm not psychic and neither are you.

I could attempt to project upside for players like Eberle, Gagner, Paajarvi-Svensson and Hall/Seguin/Fowler and match that up with current contenders. I could speculate on medium-end talent already on the team...

But it'd be pointless and complete speculative. All I'm saying is that there are good younger players on the roster who are less redundant than previous years and a couple top-end prospects outside of NA Pro to go with the line on a truly fantastic talent in the upcoming draft.

It's not an empty cupboard.
No,it's not empty but:

Is there a first line player in the stem?

Is there a top pairing defenseman in the system?

Is their a legitimate #1 goaltender in the system?

You can have all the depth you want but getting top prospects and developing them properly takes time unless they are generational talents.

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01-24-2010, 02:52 PM
  #79
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Katz is not going to do a presser just because Terry would like him to. He has a PR department and if they are worth there salt they would wait until there not in a epic slump. Maybe after the lottery when we know the draft pick and were picking number one. Thats when Katz would say hi and talk about the future. If he did that now everything he said would be blasted and criticized on epic levels of scrutiny. It would be dumb for anyone to even think that he would or have to do a presser right now. Terry can go cry if he wants. Katz is a business man not a public speaker and he humbly admitted that at his last presser, he pays good money for his Public Speakers and Terry should go whine at them instead of his sad attempt at a witch hunt.

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01-24-2010, 02:53 PM
  #80
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Is there a first line player in the stem?
At least one. Potentially two. And another on the way, as of right now.

Quote:
Is there a top pairing defenseman in the system?
There's a top-pairing defenseman on the team.

Quote:
Is their a legitimate #1 goaltender in the system?
Easily acquired if Khabibulin isn't going to recover. The cap-space hurts, though.

Quote:
You can have all the depth you want but getting top prospects and developing them properly takes time unless they are generational talents.
True.

Jordan Eberle and Paajarvi-Svensson are close, but they don't need to be here next year. Take the time. Brule, Gagner, Potulny are already here. Omark will be 24. And we're likely going to get a guy who's not only physically ready, but has the talent of the upper echelon in the NHL.

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01-24-2010, 02:54 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
No,it's not empty but:

Is there a first line player in the stem?

Is there a top pairing defenseman in the system?

Is their a legitimate #1 goaltender in the system?

You can have all the depth you want but getting top prospects and developing them properly takes time unless they are generational talents.
yes
yes
Yes

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01-24-2010, 02:59 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
At least one. Potentially two. And another on the way, as of right now.



There's a top-pairing defenseman on the team.



Easily acquired if Khabibulin isn't going to recover. The cap-space hurts, though.



True.

Jordan Eberle and Paajarvi-Svensson are close, but they don't need to be here next year. Take the time. Brule, Gagner, Potulny are already here. Omark will be 24. And we're likely going to get a guy who's not only physically ready, but has the talent of the upper echelon in the NHL.

One? Two? Who?

Yes there is a top pairing defensemen on the team but that wasn't the question. All teams have at least two and most have another one coming up.

If a legit #1 goaltender is that easily acquired you have to wonder why the Oilers went the way they did.

You have a lot faith in players like Brule and Potulny. Nice complimetary players to be sure but hardly above average.

If your first line and defense are below average, I don't see a recipe for success.

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01-24-2010, 03:02 PM
  #83
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MPS
Petry
Dubnyk

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01-24-2010, 03:03 PM
  #84
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What is Jones fetish with Katz? Yes it could be a tad good for optics if he speaks, but why should he?

Katz doesn't have to do a damn thing. My family has 4+ season seats and I don't give a flying .... if Katz speaks.

This is a hockey market. people will keep coming.

We have a choice to renew. That's on a paying customer. If you don't like how things are going then get rid of your tickets.

It's pretty simple.

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01-24-2010, 03:05 PM
  #85
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Edmonton is a great hockey market. There aren't many cities in the NHL that would fill the building to pay for this garbage product year after year. Katz has to know how lucky he is to be in Edmonton and not in some city where this junk would be playing to a half-empty arena.



This is an entertainment business, and the Oilers are simply not entertaining. I seldom even bother watching these guys on TV anymore. There's just nothing in it for me. I can spend the time better reading a book, exercising, trying to learn new things, hiking, fighting with my cat, or sleeping. All of that is far more satisfying than watching an Oilers game at this point in time.

If I were in Edmonton, I would have serious doubts about why I should continue to spend my money and trudge all the way out to the arena to watch that product when I could receive a far more satisfying entertainment experience for far less money somewhere else.


The Oilers organization can not simply assume that those tickets will continue to be purchased. They should be making an effort to explain why it is worthwhile. "Sell hope," I guess, has become the phrase people are throwing around lately. "If you lose your seasons tickets right now, you might not be able to get back in when this team is taking off again."

And that kind of argument requires people to believe that the team might, at some point, actually be taking off again.

As a fan, why would I believe that might happen?

It might not be Daryl Katz' personal responsibility to be spokesman for this team. But at the same time, somebody has to speak up for the organization and express that vision to us. It can't be Kevin Lowe, because he's the guy that steered us into the iceberg in the first place. It can't be Tambellini because everybody thinks he's just a sock-puppet for Lowe, and how can he say anything about how the Oilers got into this mess without criticizing his boss? Who's left? Pat Laforge? Pat Quinn? Sparky Kulchisky?

The message Terry Jones rightly says needs to be given to the fans won't mean much coming from this organization as long as Kevin Lowe remains in their employ.

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01-24-2010, 03:08 PM
  #86
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One? Two? Who?
The guy tearing up the WHL in a way it hasn't been torn since 1999 and the guy who's going to make it on top-10 prospects lists over the next few months.

Quote:
Yes there is a top pairing defensemen on the team but that wasn't the question. All teams have at least two and most have another one coming up.
Care to do a little list for me?

I'd like to compare Petry to other defenders you consider as potential top-pairing players? Plus, Ladi Smid.

Quote:
If a legit #1 goaltender is that easily acquired you have to wonder why the Oilers went the way they did.
Paying the best #1 on the open market?

You could swing a deal for Halak, Pavelec or Harding but it will cost you assets. Doesn't mean they're any less available.

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You have a lot faith in players like Brule and Potulny. Nice complimetary players to be sure but hardly above average.
Complimentary talent, for sure.

Hardly above average? What average. They're two well-rounded players who can score goals and play on lines 2-3. Kris Versteeg and Dustin Byfuglien are average by proxy, they still help make up a pretty good team.

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01-24-2010, 03:09 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by surshot View Post
MPS
Petry
Dubnyk
We'll see how MPS's game translates to North America before annointing him a first line player.

Petry has never been projected as a top pairing defenseman. Could happem but not likely.

Dubnyk is currently getting the chance of a life time. His SV% is .869.

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01-24-2010, 03:16 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by HOF99 View Post
What is Jones fetish with Katz? Yes it could be a tad good for optics if he speaks, but why should he?

Katz doesn't have to do a damn thing. My family has 4+ season seats and I don't give a flying .... if Katz speaks.

This is a hockey market. people will keep coming.

We have a choice to renew. That's on a paying customer. If you don't like how things are going then get rid of your tickets.

It's pretty simple.
You make some good points.

I also think Jones is out to lunch. There are empty seats but... as you say this is a hockey market and it doesn't take much to get people's interest again. Suppose the Pats are eliminated early and Eberle suits up for an NHL game towards the end of the season. That'd fill a few seats. If the Oilers draft Hall/Seguin/Fowler, season seats will get snapped up. Hell, even if the Oilers don't do a damn thing, the long summer will take its toll and come October people will be excited to see hockey again.

Of course, he's right about the other things. This organization is a gong show and has its work cut out for it and fans are losing patience. The problem is though, while sports teams might seem like public institutions, at the end of the day they are still privately run businesses and though there may be questions, they don't have to answer them. Bottom line, in hockey markets like this it doesn't take much to motivate people to buy tickets.

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01-24-2010, 03:19 PM
  #89
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It can be nice if an owner speaks, etc, but i don't get why he feels he has to?

Why does Katz have to get off his couch or private jet, etc to speak about it?

"It's good for optics" is the only thing I can think of.

In the market he is in, he doesn't "have to". Should he though? I don't know. I don't think so.

We have a choice to go or not go. That's how business works.

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01-24-2010, 03:49 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
The guy tearing up the WHL in a way it hasn't been torn since 1999 and the guy who's going to make it on top-10 prospects lists over the next few months.



Care to do a little list for me?

I'd like to compare Petry to other defenders you consider as potential top-pairing players? Plus, Ladi Smid.



Paying the best #1 on the open market?

You could swing a deal for Halak, Pavelec or Harding but it will cost you assets. Doesn't mean they're any less available.


Complimentary talent, for sure.

Hardly above average? What average. They're two well-rounded players who can score goals and play on lines 2-3. Kris Versteeg and Dustin Byfuglien are average by proxy, they still help make up a pretty good team.
Since you still won't name names I guess I will have to assume you mean Eberle. Are you sure he will be a first line player in a quick rebuild? I'm not. Plying against 6'4" defensemen with wheels and NHL experience is a little different than junior hockey.

And who is the other one in the Oiler system? MPS.?

I don't need to do a list for you. Just look at NHL rosters...they're widely available.
Smid doesn't look like an above average top pairing defenseman to me.

And Khabibulin with his poor record and injury history during his time in Chicago was the "best #1 on the market"? Once would have to say the proof is in the pudding. If someone like Halak is so easily attaintable why didn't the Oilers easily attain him.

You really think Potuny equals Versteeg? Love to see your rationale.

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01-24-2010, 03:51 PM
  #91
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Rich Winter is the last guy who can counted on for an impartial opinion. I agree that we'll need top players but you don't need a top player at every position to win the Cup

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01-24-2010, 03:52 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Since you still won't name names I guess I will have to assume you mean Eberle. Are you sure he will be a first line player in a quick rebuild? I'm not. Plying against 6'4" defensemen with wheels and NHL experience is a little different than junior hockey.

And who is the other one in the Oiler system? MPS.?

I don't need to do a list for you. Just look at NHL rosters...they're widely available.
Smid doesn't look like an above average top pairing defenseman to me.

And Khabibulin with his poor record and injury history during his time in Chicago was the "best #1 on the market"? Once would have to say the proof is in the pudding. If someone like Halak is so easily attaintable why didn't the Oilers easily attain him.

You really think Potuny equals Versteeg? Love to see your rationale.
#1 - You lost cred

#2 - Man I wish I was a loser who backsopped a team to a cup.

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01-24-2010, 04:12 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Since you still won't name names I guess I will have to assume you mean Eberle. Are you sure he will be a first line player in a quick rebuild? I'm not. Plying against 6'4" defensemen with wheels and NHL experience is a little different than junior hockey.

And who is the other one in the Oiler system? MPS.?

I don't need to do a list for you. Just look at NHL rosters...they're widely available.
Smid doesn't look like an above average top pairing defenseman to me.

And Khabibulin with his poor record and injury history during his time in Chicago was the "best #1 on the market"? Once would have to say the proof is in the pudding. If someone like Halak is so easily attaintable why didn't the Oilers easily attain him.

You really think Potuny equals Versteeg? Love to see your rationale.
DSF, you always pick at the team.

What would you want the team to do?

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01-24-2010, 04:29 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
We'll see how MPS's game translates to North America before annointing him a first line player.

Petry has never been projected as a top pairing defenseman. Could happem but not likely.

Dubnyk is currently getting the chance of a life time. His SV% is .869.
MPS looked pretty good playing in Regina and Saskatoon and has all the tools one needs to succeed in the NA game. This raises a good question why is Shirokov not subject to the litmus test?

Petry has been projected and is projected to be a top line Dman and it is very likely to happen.

Why use his save percentage when he is playing on a team that is inept defensively right now? Why use such a small sample that one would only use to make the player look bad? Have you watched the games Dubnyk has played in or are you to busy breathing heavy to Shirokov you tube Hi-lights.

Dubnyk is going to be fine and his numbers well get better but go ahead and continue to discredit every Oiler you can think of.

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01-24-2010, 04:37 PM
  #95
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I've been thinking about the optics of a re-build since the end of last year, and to be honest, it's going to be impossible to pull a "quickie" like Boston, Colorado, and Philadelphia all did.

Those teams relied on already-established young talent in addition to the signing of solid free agents in order to get to the level they are at. That requires that you have the cap space.

Boston drafted the likes of Lucic, Bergeron, Kessel, Krejci, and others in a 2-3 year span, but had the cap space to grab legit talents like Savard and Chara, 2 players which are arguably the centerpieces of their success.

Colorado had been drafting good young players for a while (Stastny, Wolski, Svatos), before capitalizing on this year's draft with Duchene and O'Reilly. That being said, they built their defense and goaltending from free agency, and there seems to be no real "bad" contract on that front. Anderson was a boon, while guys like Hannan and Clark are playing amazing hockey. Colorado may be having a flukey season IMO, I don't know if they will do the exact same next year.

Philadelphia had already picked Carter, Van Riemsdyk, Richards, and Giroux prior to their super re-build. Plus they had the cap space. They grabbed Timonen, Hartnell, and Briere, and still had money to re-sign their free agents. The thing is, all these guys have essentially lived up to their contracts. If not, they're near their worth.

We are not these teams. We have a LOT of salary locked up in aging, declining players. And it's for a LONG time. You're not going to be able to grab 1-2 really good top-5 talents and then surround them with great talent via free agency to transform this team. Instead, you're going to have to slowly weed out poor contracts as these players age.

My return to contendership coincides with the end of Horcoff's contract. That will be the last remaining stain of this recent run of poor management. And that "return" could be expedited if you bury him in the minors for the last couple of years

In my mind, this re-build began last year, with the drafting of MPS. Given Hall/Seguin this year, and maybe 2-3 more years of top-10 drafting, I think we'll have the key pieces in place to contend in 2015. Petry will not be a top-pairing defenseman, but he'll be an excellent top-4. Chorney will be lucky to ever reach that plateau.

Now this process is delicate. This team needs to ensure that they do not dwell in mediocrity for any of these seasons. You cannot have a risk of making a run for the playoffs. That means you have to eliminate whatever short-term value players you already have. The Hemsky's, the Visnovsky's, the Penner's. Get whatever draft picks you can using those players. Remember, as good as Kane and Toews are, Chicago got guys like Keith, Bolland, and Byfuglien in the later rounds.

With some of the less bearable contracts, the team must face tough decisions. Moreau, Staios, Souray, Horcoff, Khabibulin...I don't see any of these guys living up to their contracts. I say you take any deal you can for them, while experimenting with retirement or send-downs to the minors if things get tough.

As for Gilbert, I still see some light at the end of the tunnel for him. He's only in his 3rd full season, and it's honestly his only "bad" one thus far. Guys like Smid and Grebeshkov should be given the 1-2 role now as this team moves forward. They have the potential to work out, they just need some time. Chicago did the same with Keith-Seabrook for 2-3 years before they became the juggernaut they are now.

There's basically a few criteria this team needs to follow to reach the level we want them to be at, but they're all need to happen if it's going to be done right:
1) Destroy your immediate future. Trade the likes of Hemsky, Penner, Visnovsky in order to prevent this team from ever being a threat for the playoffs in the next 3-4 years. High draft picks are fundamental to this rebuild.
2) Acquire at least 2-3 top-5 picks. And hope for about 6 top-10 players when all is said and done. (Gagner and MPS could count).
3) Allow guys like Gagner, Cogliano, Brule, and Nilsson to consistently play in your top-6. These are the guys that will be veterans once you become a contender. Now is the time to weed out the ones with low potential/pliability and look for ones that can be good for us in the long-term.
4) Deal with the contracts. This isn't really fundamental to the re-build, but it's to get rid of your dirty laundry and any signs of the terrible past 4-5 years we've had here. Moreau, Staios, Souray, Horcoff, Khabibulin. Do whatever you can to get them out of here ASAP. Trade, retirement, buy-outs, demotions. Whatever it takes.
5) In 2013-2014, with the added cap room from some of these contracts ending, look to sign legit role players for this team. They could be good wingers, solid bottom-6 forwards, or dependable top-4 defensemen. Whatever is unecessary. Hunt for a legitimate goaltender as well, but make sure he's young.

MPS will be 22 in 2013. Gagner will be 24. Petry 26. Hall 21. The other draft picks 20, 19, 18.

That's when I think this team will be ready to "rise" in the standings. I'm talking a young up-start team making a playoff run a la the Caps in '08, Penguins in '07, and Hawks last year. This is when you start to bring in good surrounding players for them to play with. This is when you begin to spend money again. By 2015, I see this team being an annual contender, one ready to challenge year after year.

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01-24-2010, 04:42 PM
  #96
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DSF, you always pick at the team.

What would you want the team to do?
He wants them to lose every year and draft good players but never play them and if they do claim they do not belong in the NHL he wants to get rid of veterans and sign more veterans he is extremely in love with Vancouver and LA even though the franchises never accomplished anything yet thinks the oil should do exactly what they do in order to not accomplish anything he thinks shirokov is the best player in the world and Gagner is the worst he thinks the cap is going down when its actually going up he thinks the oil well get better by not signing better players.

This is what races thru is dim mind on a daily basis and it makes as much sense as the paragraph above but its his opinion and i congratulate him for being him. Its gotta be a terrible way of life. Isn't it sunhine?

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01-24-2010, 04:53 PM
  #97
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The thing that really annoys me about is from about 1992-2000 or so the orgainization had been on the brink of moving and put on a huge PR campaign to sell season tickets and keep the team in Edmonton. SO fan support has been great even though the team has been only mediocore, but at least competitive enough to stay close to a playoff spot. Now when the team is really tanking and rebuilding according to this guy attendance is going to drop because the orgainization is untrustworthy and the product on the ice is poor.

Is it not good enough for the fans of the Oiler just to have an NHL team? or do they have to be at least semi-competitive to sell out games?

As for Katz being unavailable, boo hoo!
Sadly in Edmonton the fans feel that they deserve a winner . And they get "insulted" if they don't get what they want . Bunch of crybabies if you ask me .

And the article by Jones - while it does make some legitimate points - is so full of over the top sarcasm that I doubt Katz or anyone in the Oilers organization takes it very seriously .

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01-24-2010, 05:00 PM
  #98
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Sadly in Edmonton the fans feel that they deserve a winner . And they get "insulted" if they don't get what they want . Bunch of crybabies if you ask me .

And the article by Jones - while it does make some legitimate points - is so full of over the top sarcasm that I doubt Katz or anyone in the Oilers organization takes it very seriously .
It's also by Jones, who, as it has been noted, has a weird personal vendetta against Katz (I'll always treasure the memory of the column in which Jones referred to Katz as a "drug dealer").

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01-24-2010, 05:01 PM
  #99
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It's also by Jones, who, as it has been noted, has a weird personal vendetta against Katz (I'll always treasure the memory of the column in which Jones referred to Katz as a "drug dealer").
Hmm . In my memory banks it was Mike Comrie's Ghost who came on here one day and likened Katz to a guy selling crack down on Jasper Ave . Could be wrong about that though ....

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01-24-2010, 05:08 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie View Post
Edmonton is a great hockey market. There aren't many cities in the NHL that would fill the building to pay for this garbage product year after year. Katz has to know how lucky he is to be in Edmonton and not in some city where this junk would be playing to a half-empty arena.



This is an entertainment business, and the Oilers are simply not entertaining. I seldom even bother watching these guys on TV anymore. There's just nothing in it for me. I can spend the time better reading a book, exercising, trying to learn new things, hiking, fighting with my cat, or sleeping. All of that is far more satisfying than watching an Oilers game at this point in time.

If I were in Edmonton, I would have serious doubts about why I should continue to spend my money and trudge all the way out to the arena to watch that product when I could receive a far more satisfying entertainment experience for far less money somewhere else.


The Oilers organization can not simply assume that those tickets will continue to be purchased. They should be making an effort to explain why it is worthwhile. "Sell hope," I guess, has become the phrase people are throwing around lately. "If you lose your seasons tickets right now, you might not be able to get back in when this team is taking off again."

And that kind of argument requires people to believe that the team might, at some point, actually be taking off again.

As a fan, why would I believe that might happen?

It might not be Daryl Katz' personal responsibility to be spokesman for this team. But at the same time, somebody has to speak up for the organization and express that vision to us. It can't be Kevin Lowe, because he's the guy that steered us into the iceberg in the first place. It can't be Tambellini because everybody thinks he's just a sock-puppet for Lowe, and how can he say anything about how the Oilers got into this mess without criticizing his boss? Who's left? Pat Laforge? Pat Quinn? Sparky Kulchisky?

The message Terry Jones rightly says needs to be given to the fans won't mean much coming from this organization as long as Kevin Lowe remains in their employ.
I agree...especially regarding Lowe.
I also think Jones was right on the mark but the amount of posters in this thread defending this sad sack organization makes me wonder...just what has to happen before this team and its owner are held accountable?

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