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Jonesey's Open Letter To Katz

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Old
01-24-2010, 05:10 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Hmm . In my memory banks it was Mike Comrie's Ghost who came on here one day and likened Katz to a guy selling crack down on Jasper Ave . Could be wrong about that though ....
A blogger coming to HFBoards to say something nasty? I'll believe that when I see it.

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01-24-2010, 05:13 PM
  #102
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Hmm . In my memory banks it was Mike Comrie's Ghost who came on here one day and likened Katz to a guy selling crack down on Jasper Ave . Could be wrong about that though ....
Well, Jones wasn't talking about crack. he was making a play on Rexall pharmaceuticals, but the intention was clear.

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01-24-2010, 05:15 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
I agree...especially regarding Lowe.
I also think Jones was right on the mark but the amount of posters in this thread defending this sad sack organization makes me wonder...just what has to happen before this team and its owner are held accountable?
What does that even mean ? How do you want to "hold them accountable" ? Accountable for what and to whom ? Shall we line up the team for a public flogging ? How about we do what some tool suggested and all stand and turn our backs on the team next time they take the ice at Rexall ?

Please provide examples of how you would have the team be "held accountable" .

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Old
01-24-2010, 05:19 PM
  #104
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01-24-2010, 05:21 PM
  #105
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Yeah ... that's the impression I'm getting too .

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Old
01-24-2010, 05:30 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
I found it a bit over dramatic, but he does need to make some appearances to the public none the less. Jones is right about the arena support as well as fans lining up to pay for this crap. Even Pocklington had support for the team until he gutted it for no future hope and tried to openly move it. I would bet Katz would have support for a Chicago style re-build. Fans here are pretty educated. All they want is to be acknowledged that they matter and that the team is moving forward.

I don't think we need a LaForge style appology letter, just a press conference on what's happened, what went right and wrong and what the vision and goals are for the organization. Just a good old fashioned sit down Q and A. That will do it and ease most fans into what the team is doing.

Just my thoughts.
I get the press conference thing but I dont' think your going to here to much 'till after the trade deadline. The Oilers would love a full on rebuild but our crappy contracts are going to pervent that. If they had presser and said we're going to go into rebuild mode and trade our vets and then not be able to make those move at the trade deadline, I think they would take even more heat than if they keep there mouths shut and see where they are after it.

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Old
01-24-2010, 05:34 PM
  #107
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Absolument!

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Old
01-24-2010, 05:37 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
What does that even mean ? How do you want to "hold them accountable" ? Accountable for what and to whom ? Shall we line up the team for a public flogging ? How about we do what some tool suggested and all stand and turn our backs on the team next time they take the ice at Rexall ?

Please provide examples of how you would have the team be "held accountable" .
So what exactly are you saying here? Are you telling me that the team has been accountable to its fans? Are you telling me that the team has recognized its shortcomings and addressed them?
Hardly.
It's really simple...fans could send a message, for one, stop buying these garbage PPV broadcasts until the production quality and the product improves. Stop supporting incompetence by refusing to buy as many of those terribly packaged Minipacks. As long as fans continue to support this incompetent organization and gobble up the propaganda, as they always have, where is the impetus for change. Just ask the Leafs.
Sounds to me like you're exactly the type of fan that just mindlessly continues to buy whatever the Oilers are selling....they love fans like that.

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Old
01-24-2010, 05:40 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by The Moose View Post
I think it is human nature not to pay for entertainment when one is not provided.
haha "paying" for anything is only a construction (and imposition on to people) of 'complex' cultures - its not a universal human nature.

its your reaction to NOT pay in a realm of capital. its a response based on development in your environment.

dont forget there are plenty of NON-sports fans or people who dont care about the sports, or the entertainment industry, at all. what does that make them in terms of their humanity? are they expected "intrinsically" to find entertainment through these avenues to be "human". nope. there is no universal.

then again, its "human nature" to skate for that entertainment - except all the groin problems because the development of the skating stride works against the developed structure of current human bodies. kind of like a pitchers throw.


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Old
01-24-2010, 05:44 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by surshot View Post
MPS looked pretty good playing in Regina and Saskatoon and has all the tools one needs to succeed in the NA game. This raises a good question why is Shirokov not subject to the litmus test?

Petry has been projected and is projected to be a top line Dman and it is very likely to happen.

Why use his save percentage when he is playing on a team that is inept defensively right now? Why use such a small sample that one would only use to make the player look bad? Have you watched the games Dubnyk has played in or are you to busy breathing heavy to Shirokov you tube Hi-lights.

Dubnyk is going to be fine and his numbers well get better but go ahead and continue to discredit every Oiler you can think of.
Shirokov is actually a very good example of how some Europeans have difficulty translating their game to North America. What "tools" does MPS have that Shirokov doesn't?

If you can find one link to a projection about Petry being a top pairing defenseman I would like to see it.

Hockey's Future has him at 7.0 C which is a third or fourth defenseman. Do you have other information or are you just dreaming again?

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospect/jeff_petry

Save percentage has little to with team play.

That is goal against average. Dubnyk has been shaky at best but you keep on dreaming.

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Old
01-24-2010, 05:58 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
I've been thinking about the optics of a re-build since the end of last year, and to be honest, it's going to be impossible to pull a "quickie" like Boston, Colorado, and Philadelphia all did.

Those teams relied on already-established young talent in addition to the signing of solid free agents in order to get to the level they are at. That requires that you have the cap space.

Boston drafted the likes of Lucic, Bergeron, Kessel, Krejci, and others in a 2-3 year span, but had the cap space to grab legit talents like Savard and Chara, 2 players which are arguably the centerpieces of their success.

Colorado had been drafting good young players for a while (Stastny, Wolski, Svatos), before capitalizing on this year's draft with Duchene and O'Reilly. That being said, they built their defense and goaltending from free agency, and there seems to be no real "bad" contract on that front. Anderson was a boon, while guys like Hannan and Clark are playing amazing hockey. Colorado may be having a flukey season IMO, I don't know if they will do the exact same next year.

Philadelphia had already picked Carter, Van Riemsdyk, Richards, and Giroux prior to their super re-build. Plus they had the cap space. They grabbed Timonen, Hartnell, and Briere, and still had money to re-sign their free agents. The thing is, all these guys have essentially lived up to their contracts. If not, they're near their worth.

We are not these teams. We have a LOT of salary locked up in aging, declining players. And it's for a LONG time. You're not going to be able to grab 1-2 really good top-5 talents and then surround them with great talent via free agency to transform this team. Instead, you're going to have to slowly weed out poor contracts as these players age.

My return to contendership coincides with the end of Horcoff's contract. That will be the last remaining stain of this recent run of poor management. And that "return" could be expedited if you bury him in the minors for the last couple of years

In my mind, this re-build began last year, with the drafting of MPS. Given Hall/Seguin this year, and maybe 2-3 more years of top-10 drafting, I think we'll have the key pieces in place to contend in 2015. Petry will not be a top-pairing defenseman, but he'll be an excellent top-4. Chorney will be lucky to ever reach that plateau.

Now this process is delicate. This team needs to ensure that they do not dwell in mediocrity for any of these seasons. You cannot have a risk of making a run for the playoffs. That means you have to eliminate whatever short-term value players you already have. The Hemsky's, the Visnovsky's, the Penner's. Get whatever draft picks you can using those players. Remember, as good as Kane and Toews are, Chicago got guys like Keith, Bolland, and Byfuglien in the later rounds.

With some of the less bearable contracts, the team must face tough decisions. Moreau, Staios, Souray, Horcoff, Khabibulin...I don't see any of these guys living up to their contracts. I say you take any deal you can for them, while experimenting with retirement or send-downs to the minors if things get tough.

As for Gilbert, I still see some light at the end of the tunnel for him. He's only in his 3rd full season, and it's honestly his only "bad" one thus far. Guys like Smid and Grebeshkov should be given the 1-2 role now as this team moves forward. They have the potential to work out, they just need some time. Chicago did the same with Keith-Seabrook for 2-3 years before they became the juggernaut they are now.

There's basically a few criteria this team needs to follow to reach the level we want them to be at, but they're all need to happen if it's going to be done right:
1) Destroy your immediate future. Trade the likes of Hemsky, Penner, Visnovsky in order to prevent this team from ever being a threat for the playoffs in the next 3-4 years. High draft picks are fundamental to this rebuild.
2) Acquire at least 2-3 top-5 picks. And hope for about 6 top-10 players when all is said and done. (Gagner and MPS could count).
3) Allow guys like Gagner, Cogliano, Brule, and Nilsson to consistently play in your top-6. These are the guys that will be veterans once you become a contender. Now is the time to weed out the ones with low potential/pliability and look for ones that can be good for us in the long-term.
4) Deal with the contracts. This isn't really fundamental to the re-build, but it's to get rid of your dirty laundry and any signs of the terrible past 4-5 years we've had here. Moreau, Staios, Souray, Horcoff, Khabibulin. Do whatever you can to get them out of here ASAP. Trade, retirement, buy-outs, demotions. Whatever it takes.
5) In 2013-2014, with the added cap room from some of these contracts ending, look to sign legit role players for this team. They could be good wingers, solid bottom-6 forwards, or dependable top-4 defensemen. Whatever is unecessary. Hunt for a legitimate goaltender as well, but make sure he's young.

MPS will be 22 in 2013. Gagner will be 24. Petry 26. Hall 21. The other draft picks 20, 19, 18.

That's when I think this team will be ready to "rise" in the standings. I'm talking a young up-start team making a playoff run a la the Caps in '08, Penguins in '07, and Hawks last year. This is when you start to bring in good surrounding players for them to play with. This is when you begin to spend money again. By 2015, I see this team being an annual contender, one ready to challenge year after year.
Just want to say, nice effort on this piece. I read the entire thing and pretty much agree with you wholeheartedly (it's not like you've stated anything groundbreaking but you take everything we should already know and eloquently lay it out). The only thing I "object" would be your opinion that the team should roll with Gags, Cogs, Nilsson and Brule for now and the future. I wonder if you're just speaking in general terms, in the sense that the team should continue to roll with the youth movement exclusively or more specifically, that the Oilers should keep these 4 players moving forward. If it's the latter I would have to disagree, probably in their best interest to ship out at least 2 of those pieces. Hopefully some players can get "weeded" out and the issue resolves of itself.

Anyways, cheers on the bit, well done.

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Old
01-24-2010, 06:00 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
What does that even mean ? How do you want to "hold them accountable" ? Accountable for what and to whom ? Shall we line up the team for a public flogging ? How about we do what some tool suggested and all stand and turn our backs on the team next time they take the ice at Rexall ?

Please provide examples of how you would have the team be "held accountable" .
Kevin Lowe
Accountable for what: running this team into the sewer.
How he might be held accountable: lose his job.

Steve Tambellini
Accountable for what: terrible first summer on the job; not doing enough to undo the damage his idiot predecessor did.
How he might be held accountable: lose his job.

Daryl Katz
Accountable for what: tolerating gross incompetence of his hockey management group, failure to address concerns of paying customers over declining quality of product.
How he might be held accountable: suffer loss of revenue resulting from empty seats.

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Old
01-24-2010, 06:03 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
And another one.

7 more years in the wilderness:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...93306-sun.html
I think it's really funny that Ritch Winter's opinion counts for anything around here. There seems to be total collective amnesia about the fact that the Hossa elephant hunt started with Winter (as faithfully recounted at the time through Stauffer).

I am firmly of the belief that Katz bought the superstar mantra from Winter hook line and sinker. I also think that he gave this marching order to Lowe. As the employee, Lowe, and not Katz is wearing the damage that the Hossa hunt did to the franchise.

IMO, it is time for Katz to man up, but not in the way that Jones wants.

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Old
01-24-2010, 06:04 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie View Post
Kevin Lowe
Accountable for what: running this team into the sewer.
How he might be held accountable: lose his job.

Steve Tambellini
Accountable for what: terrible first summer on the job; not doing enough to undo the damage his idiot predecessor did.
How he might be held accountable: lose his job.

Daryl Katz
Accountable for what: tolerating gross incompetence of his hockey management group, failure to address concerns of paying customers over declining quality of product.
How he might be held accountable: suffer loss of revenue resulting from empty seats.
About sums it up for me too. Except, I would like to give Tambo one more year. It can't happen though, because the new Pres should get to pick his own GM.

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Old
01-24-2010, 06:16 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by hillbillypriest View Post
I think it's really funny that Ritch Winter's opinion counts for anything around here. There seems to be total collective amnesia about the fact that the Hossa elephant hunt started with Winter (as faithfully recounted at the time through Stauffer).

I am firmly of the belief that Katz bought the superstar mantra from Winter hook line and sinker. I also think that he gave this marching order to Lowe. As the employee, Lowe, and not Katz is wearing the damage that the Hossa hunt did to the franchise.

IMO, it is time for Katz to man up, but not in the way that Jones wants.
You're verging on blaming the mess the Oilers are in on Ritch Winter.

That could only be true if the Oiler brass were feeble minded.

Oh, wait....

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01-24-2010, 06:29 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
You're verging on blaming the mess the Oilers are in on Ritch Winter.

That could only be true if the Oiler brass were feeble minded.

Oh, wait....


If the Oilers won the stanley cup next season, would you be happy or angry? Honest question, I truly don't know.

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Old
01-24-2010, 06:31 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by jfhlbuffy View Post
If the Oilers won the stanley cup next season, would you be happy or angry? Honest question, I truly don't know.
Very happy.

Would also be happy if I won the lottery, the Easter Bunny was real and there was a lasting peace in the Middle East.

What an odd question.

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01-24-2010, 06:34 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Very happy.

Would also be happy if I won the lottery, the Easter Bunny was real and there was a lasting peace in the Middle East.

What an odd question.

You just seem like the kind of person that would get pissed off if something good happened. Especially because it would fly in the face of your "The Oilers will never win another game as long as the NHL exists" theory.

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Old
01-24-2010, 06:38 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
You're verging on blaming the mess the Oilers are in on Ritch Winter.

That could only be true if the Oiler brass were feeble minded.

Oh, wait....
Don't worry, you read me correctly. I am blaming it on Ritch Winter and his impact on Katz at a terrible time. I believe that Lowe effectively lost control in '07 and was given marching orders to spend by the EIG. At that time, btw, this board was very very much of the opinion that the EIG was cheap and was cheering this along.

Next summer, which started with much optimism as you may recall (because '08 ended pretty well in spite of a lot of key injuries), we're into the Katz era. As July 1 approached, all we heard about was how Katz was going to be different and how the Oilers' problem was that we had a small town mentality. Needed to make a big splash to show those darned UFAs that Edmonton was serious about being a winner. Listening to what Stauffer was saying, Katz and Winter seemed to be on a pretty close wavelength. Conversely, was Lowe buying what Winter was selling, or was he being a good employee for the new boss and saying all the "right things". BTW, am I to believe that Lowe has ever been a fan of Ritch Winter?? Should I believe that it was Kevin Lowe's influence that got Mike Comrie signed? Hmmm....

Bottom line - I believe that Katz did give strong directions to the management when he came into town to change their mindset from "small market" to "contender". Now, when Lowe in particular is taking essentially ALL of the blame for what happened in '08, we have not heard Katz say anything. If Lowe does get fired, I expect he'll do some talking about the "inside story". I expect that Katz - as strongly influenced by some terrible advice from Ritch Winter - will come out as a big influence on the decisions that were made.

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01-24-2010, 06:47 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by hillbillypriest View Post
Don't worry, you read me correctly. I am blaming it on Ritch Winter and his impact on Katz at a terrible time. I believe that Lowe effectively lost control in '07 and was given marching orders to spend by the EIG. At that time, btw, this board was very very much of the opinion that the EIG was cheap and was cheering this along.

Next summer, which started with much optimism as you may recall (because '08 ended pretty well in spite of a lot of key injuries), we're into the Katz era. As July 1 approached, all we heard about was how Katz was going to be different and how the Oilers' problem was that we had a small town mentality. Needed to make a big splash to show those darned UFAs that Edmonton was serious about being a winner. Listening to what Stauffer was saying, Katz and Winter seemed to be on a pretty close wavelength. Conversely, was Lowe buying what Winter was selling, or was he being a good employee for the new boss and saying all the "right things". BTW, am I to believe that Lowe has ever been a fan of Ritch Winter?? Should I believe that it was Kevin Lowe's influence that got Mike Comrie signed? Hmmm....

Bottom line - I believe that Katz did give strong directions to the management when he came into town to change their mindset from "small market" to "contender". Now, when Lowe in particular is taking essentially ALL of the blame for what happened in '08, we have not heard Katz say anything. If Lowe does get fired, I expect he'll do some talking about the "inside story". I expect that Katz - as strongly influenced by some terrible advice from Ritch Winter - will come out as a big influence on the decisions that were made.
Interesting theory.

If indeed Katz is doing Winter's bidding, we're in much more trouble than I thought.

Fox in charge of the henhouse and all.

Not trying to be confrontational but have you anything to corroborate or just musing?

Though I admit it does makes some sense.

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01-24-2010, 07:06 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
I've been thinking about the optics of a re-build since the end of last year, and to be honest, it's going to be impossible to pull a "quickie" like Boston, Colorado, and Philadelphia all did.

Those teams relied on already-established young talent in addition to the signing of solid free agents in order to get to the level they are at. That requires that you have the cap space.

Boston drafted the likes of Lucic, Bergeron, Kessel, Krejci, and others in a 2-3 year span, but had the cap space to grab legit talents like Savard and Chara, 2 players which are arguably the centerpieces of their success.

Colorado had been drafting good young players for a while (Stastny, Wolski, Svatos), before capitalizing on this year's draft with Duchene and O'Reilly. That being said, they built their defense and goaltending from free agency, and there seems to be no real "bad" contract on that front. Anderson was a boon, while guys like Hannan and Clark are playing amazing hockey. Colorado may be having a flukey season IMO, I don't know if they will do the exact same next year.

Philadelphia had already picked Carter, Van Riemsdyk, Richards, and Giroux prior to their super re-build. Plus they had the cap space. They grabbed Timonen, Hartnell, and Briere, and still had money to re-sign their free agents. The thing is, all these guys have essentially lived up to their contracts. If not, they're near their worth.

We are not these teams. We have a LOT of salary locked up in aging, declining players. And it's for a LONG time. You're not going to be able to grab 1-2 really good top-5 talents and then surround them with great talent via free agency to transform this team. Instead, you're going to have to slowly weed out poor contracts as these players age.

My return to contendership coincides with the end of Horcoff's contract. That will be the last remaining stain of this recent run of poor management. And that "return" could be expedited if you bury him in the minors for the last couple of years

In my mind, this re-build began last year, with the drafting of MPS. Given Hall/Seguin this year, and maybe 2-3 more years of top-10 drafting, I think we'll have the key pieces in place to contend in 2015. Petry will not be a top-pairing defenseman, but he'll be an excellent top-4. Chorney will be lucky to ever reach that plateau.

Now this process is delicate. This team needs to ensure that they do not dwell in mediocrity for any of these seasons. You cannot have a risk of making a run for the playoffs. That means you have to eliminate whatever short-term value players you already have. The Hemsky's, the Visnovsky's, the Penner's. Get whatever draft picks you can using those players. Remember, as good as Kane and Toews are, Chicago got guys like Keith, Bolland, and Byfuglien in the later rounds.

With some of the less bearable contracts, the team must face tough decisions. Moreau, Staios, Souray, Horcoff, Khabibulin...I don't see any of these guys living up to their contracts. I say you take any deal you can for them, while experimenting with retirement or send-downs to the minors if things get tough.

As for Gilbert, I still see some light at the end of the tunnel for him. He's only in his 3rd full season, and it's honestly his only "bad" one thus far. Guys like Smid and Grebeshkov should be given the 1-2 role now as this team moves forward. They have the potential to work out, they just need some time. Chicago did the same with Keith-Seabrook for 2-3 years before they became the juggernaut they are now.

There's basically a few criteria this team needs to follow to reach the level we want them to be at, but they're all need to happen if it's going to be done right:
1) Destroy your immediate future. Trade the likes of Hemsky, Penner, Visnovsky in order to prevent this team from ever being a threat for the playoffs in the next 3-4 years. High draft picks are fundamental to this rebuild.
2) Acquire at least 2-3 top-5 picks. And hope for about 6 top-10 players when all is said and done. (Gagner and MPS could count).
3) Allow guys like Gagner, Cogliano, Brule, and Nilsson to consistently play in your top-6. These are the guys that will be veterans once you become a contender. Now is the time to weed out the ones with low potential/pliability and look for ones that can be good for us in the long-term.
4) Deal with the contracts. This isn't really fundamental to the re-build, but it's to get rid of your dirty laundry and any signs of the terrible past 4-5 years we've had here. Moreau, Staios, Souray, Horcoff, Khabibulin. Do whatever you can to get them out of here ASAP. Trade, retirement, buy-outs, demotions. Whatever it takes.
5) In 2013-2014, with the added cap room from some of these contracts ending, look to sign legit role players for this team. They could be good wingers, solid bottom-6 forwards, or dependable top-4 defensemen. Whatever is unecessary. Hunt for a legitimate goaltender as well, but make sure he's young.

MPS will be 22 in 2013. Gagner will be 24. Petry 26. Hall 21. The other draft picks 20, 19, 18.

That's when I think this team will be ready to "rise" in the standings. I'm talking a young up-start team making a playoff run a la the Caps in '08, Penguins in '07, and Hawks last year. This is when you start to bring in good surrounding players for them to play with. This is when you begin to spend money again. By 2015, I see this team being an annual contender, one ready to challenge year after year.
good read. But you forgot to count for one thing: 2012.

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Old
01-24-2010, 07:08 PM
  #122
hillbillypriest
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Interesting theory.

If indeed Katz is doing Winter's bidding, we're in much more trouble than I thought.

Fox in charge of the henhouse and all.

Not trying to be confrontational but have you anything to corroborate or just musing?

Though I admit it does makes some sense.
Let me assure you, I have no inside knowledge whatsoever. I'm purely a speculator, with an agenda to save a shred of Lowe's reputation.

All's I know is that:
- Lowe was always proud of his ability to manage to a budget.
- Lowe's decision not to sign Smyth was widely criticized because he failed to anticipate that he would have cap room when Smyth's contract expired. That tell's me that he's inherently conservative when it comes to budgeting.
- Lowe's rep to me prior under the old CBA was to make trades that seemed not to be fair value at the time but which quite often ended up with the Oilers getting the best player in the long run. The deal with the Islanders to get Raffi Torres comes to mind as an example of this. This tells me his pattern and perhaps his preference is to make long term deals. I think this fundamentally changed for him in the spring of '07, leading to his epic summer of "I'll try anything" (or more perhaps more accurately, "if at first you don't succeed" - witness the failed draft day trade, Nylander, Vanek, Souray, and finally Penner).
- My strong recollection of the early summer of '08 was how little Lowe seemed to be in charge. In support of this I give you:
- Stauffer the massive regime critic (and frequent relator of the wisdom of Ritch Winter) becomes an important insider
- Lowe loses his job as GM. (I don't believe that he hired Tambellini voluntarily - I believe this was effectively forced upon him).

Lowe is not without blame, but I think it is important to keep in mind one thing: he is Katz' employee. For that reason, if there are things that he's been instructed to do and/or crap sandwiches he's been required to eat, Lowe has to "take it" in exchange for keeping his salary coming. Spilling the beans on the boss is not an option. One day, we may find out that Katz' has been pulling some key levers and has let Lowe wallow in the aftermath. We'll see in time I think.

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Old
01-24-2010, 07:08 PM
  #123
Moonlapse Vertigo
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Rich Winter's "7 years and only if they do it right," comment was good for a chuckle. The guy wants to be an NHL general manager sooooooo badly.

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Old
01-24-2010, 07:14 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillypriest View Post
Let me assure you, I have no inside knowledge whatsoever. I'm purely a speculator, with an agenda to save a shred of Lowe's reputation.

All's I know is that:
- Lowe was always proud of his ability to manage to a budget.
- Lowe's decision not to sign Smyth was widely criticized because he failed to anticipate that he would have cap room when Smyth's contract expired. That tell's me that he's inherently conservative when it comes to budgeting.
- Lowe's rep to me prior under the old CBA was to make trades that seemed not to be fair value at the time but which quite often ended up with the Oilers getting the best player in the long run. The deal with the Islanders to get Raffi Torres comes to mind as an example of this. This tells me his pattern and perhaps his preference is to make long term deals. I think this fundamentally changed for him in the spring of '07, leading to his epic summer of "I'll try anything" (or more perhaps more accurately, "if at first you don't succeed" - witness the failed draft day trade, Nylander, Vanek, Souray, and finally Penner).
- My strong recollection of the early summer of '08 was how little Lowe seemed to be in charge. In support of this I give you:
- Stauffer the massive regime critic (and frequent relator of the wisdom of Ritch Winter) becomes an important insider
- Lowe loses his job as GM. (I don't believe that he hired Tambellini voluntarily - I believe this was effectively forced upon him).

Lowe is not without blame, but I think it is important to keep in mind one thing: he is Katz' employee. For that reason, if there are things that he's been instructed to do and/or crap sandwiches he's been required to eat, Lowe has to "take it" in exchange for keeping his salary coming. Spilling the beans on the boss is not an option. One day, we may find out that Katz' has been pulling some key levers and has let Lowe wallow in the aftermath. We'll see in time I think.
The one thing that leaps out at me is that Lowe hardly needs the job to keep a roof over his and Karen's head and, if he had a modicum of pride, should have stuck to his principles if he does indeed have them.

The other points you make are certainly worthy of consideration and may well be true but how does Lowe look in the mirror in the morning under those circumstances?

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Old
01-24-2010, 07:15 PM
  #125
Asher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillypriest View Post
Don't worry, you read me correctly. I am blaming it on Ritch Winter and his impact on Katz at a terrible time. I believe that Lowe effectively lost control in '07 and was given marching orders to spend by the EIG. At that time, btw, this board was very very much of the opinion that the EIG was cheap and was cheering this along.

Next summer, which started with much optimism as you may recall (because '08 ended pretty well in spite of a lot of key injuries), we're into the Katz era. As July 1 approached, all we heard about was how Katz was going to be different and how the Oilers' problem was that we had a small town mentality. Needed to make a big splash to show those darned UFAs that Edmonton was serious about being a winner. Listening to what Stauffer was saying, Katz and Winter seemed to be on a pretty close wavelength. Conversely, was Lowe buying what Winter was selling, or was he being a good employee for the new boss and saying all the "right things". BTW, am I to believe that Lowe has ever been a fan of Ritch Winter?? Should I believe that it was Kevin Lowe's influence that got Mike Comrie signed? Hmmm....

Bottom line - I believe that Katz did give strong directions to the management when he came into town to change their mindset from "small market" to "contender". Now, when Lowe in particular is taking essentially ALL of the blame for what happened in '08, we have not heard Katz say anything. If Lowe does get fired, I expect he'll do some talking about the "inside story". I expect that Katz - as strongly influenced by some terrible advice from Ritch Winter - will come out as a big influence on the decisions that were made.
If this organization is taking advice from Winter then it's in a lot more trouble than I thought. I have absolutely zero trust in Winter's integrity. In fact, I would go so far as to say the whole Hossa episode was nothing more than Winter using the Oilers in an effort to jack up Hossa's asking price from other teams.

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