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Old
01-24-2010, 02:41 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by OilerNut View Post
I don't quite understand why he would sign with a bottom 5 team and have a ton of pressure on him when he can sign with a top 5 team and have a good chance at the cup.
The only thing I can think of is, "been there, done that." from Jagrs perspective.

His signing would only be good to maybe mentor the kids.

i said it a few days ago, but it really concerns me regarding a solid built plan and strategy.

if the Edmonton Oilers refused to give Jagr an extra year a few years ago, why are they chasing him now when he's older?

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01-24-2010, 02:42 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by surshot View Post
Rebuilding teams with money do. See Philly, NY, Montreal, Toronto, Detroit.

Never said it did include Horcoff but Gagner can very much grow into one but I never said him either. Try reading comp for dummies. I was talking about Jagr and Hemsky and does it really matter who the other guy is thats a legit first line, Sunshine.
Except Jagr And Hemsky play the same position.

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01-24-2010, 02:43 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Penner - Horcoff - Hemsky
Hall - Gagner - Jagr
Brule - Potulny - Eberle
Jacques - Stortini - Stone

Ah.. if only.
But how about they sign a couple of free agents like Grier and Madden? I can't say I'd be pleased with that lineup going into next season, I think they can do a lot more to improve the team. Namely adding some big vets who know how to play an energy game.

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01-24-2010, 02:45 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Real_Estate-Agent View Post
I do not post quotes out of context unless I am making fun of another poster.... And when it is obvious I am joking...

I posted that specific quote on the 1st page of that 16 page topic thread.... I reposted the quote on page 6 of the topic thread.

Not one poster challenged me on it being taken out of context. One poster did try to claim there might be a translation error - I pointed out that Jagr speaks English...

I stand by the quote being accurate & being in context......
I think you may have misunderstood what I meant.

I am sure the couple lines you quoted are accurate. But without the rest of the quotes from that article it kind of confuses the overall context and intent of what he was saying IMO.

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01-24-2010, 02:45 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by tv14 View Post
I suggest you look here.

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=2497

Lets not kid oursleves, if we are going to succeed in the future our offence will have a huge part in that. You do realize he has NINE season where he got MORE THAN 90 POINTS, and FIVE seasons of MORE THAN 100 POINTS. Not one Oiler forward has had a season of over 80 points. Maybe, just maybe a 5 time 100 point scorer could help out our young offence develop and be a key mentor.
You have to ask yourself what is the goal of this team? Where do we want to be? How are we going to get there? What type of players do we need? How are we going to get them?

Jagr helps with none of these things. He doesnt fit OUR team. He will not be interested in coming here to 'mentor' our young players, unless we over pay him. He will want to compete for the cup, or he wont bother. Our management is beyond stupid.

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01-24-2010, 02:46 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Arpeggio View Post
But how about they sign a couple of free agents like Grier and Madden? I can't say I'd be pleased with that lineup going into next season, I think they can do a lot more to improve the team. Namely adding some big vets who know how to play an energy game.
Stortini the 13th forward and Eberle in the AHL?

Penner - Horcoff - Hemsky
Hall - Gagner - Jagr
Jacques - Madden - Brule
Grier - Potulny - Stone

That would run you about ~30 million. It works.

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01-24-2010, 02:48 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Penner - Horcoff - Hemsky
Hall - Gagner - Jagr
Brule - Potulny - Eberle
Jacques - Stortini - Stone

Ah.. if only.
I say there's a 50/50 chance BGL is back next year.

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01-24-2010, 02:54 PM
  #83
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I say there's a 50/50 chance BGL is back next year.
I just hope Quinn is, because Quinn doesn't like Staged Fighting and loves actualized retribution.

You just know that means he'll hate Big Georges.

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01-24-2010, 03:02 PM
  #84
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Even if we were to bring in Jagr for next yr this team would still not make the playoffs.Arghh will the Oilers management ever ****ing learn from their stupid mistakes .

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01-24-2010, 03:03 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
You have to ask yourself what is the goal of this team? Where do we want to be? How are we going to get there? What type of players do we need? How are we going to get them?

Jagr helps with none of these things. He doesnt fit OUR team. He will not be interested in coming here to 'mentor' our young players, unless we over pay him. He will want to compete for the cup, or he wont bother. Our management is beyond stupid.
Are we a bottom 5 team next year, with adding Khabibulin, Hemsky, and Hall/Seguin? I don't think so. Thats our top forward and top goalie. We wouldnt be in this position this year without those key injuries, and I sure dont expect us to be a bottom 5 team with those players next year.

Thats the thing, we dont need Jagre to be here on a "mentoring contract", we just need him to be. We got a pretty decent set of forwards coming up. (Eberle, Hall/Seguin, MPS, Omark) to go along with Hemksy, Penner, Gagner etc. All these players (including Hemsky) could learn alot from things as simple as playing with JAgr or just watching him, it could do wonders for the young core of forwards, especially Hemsky.

So in my opinion, bringing in Jagr wont set us back because I dont believe we will be a lottery team next year.

Since 2007 weve had 5 1st rounders. 2007 6th, 15th, 21st. 2008 22nd. 2009 10th. Add to that whatever we get this year and we could have a really decent prospect pool. So why not stop trying to tank and try to develop these picks, who cares if Jagr makes us get 10th overall rather than 7th next year. The knowledge the kids pick up from Jagr would be more valuable than those 3 draft spots.

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01-24-2010, 03:10 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by surshot View Post
Dream land is right and it perfectly describes the 3-5 year rebuild crowd. Its already going to be four years of not making the playoffs and by all accounts we have had a pretty good draft record in that time and our cupboards our pretty much full already with prospects. We do not need anymore bad seasons. Don't be fooled Jagr would be coming to help the team win. If he is here it gives us a legit first line something we have not had since 06. He is highly under estimated on this board. The guy is a first ballot HOF and his career is not even over yet. We would be lucky to see him in Oiler silks.
I agree. IMO, the rebuild ends when we draft Seguin or Hall. Elite talent is what our prospect pool has been lacking. Grab a competent young 'tender (IE: Halak) and we're good to go.

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01-24-2010, 03:10 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by tv14 View Post
Are we a bottom 5 team next year, with adding Khabibulin, Hemsky, and Hall/Seguin? I don't think so. Thats our top forward and top goalie. We wouldnt be in this position this year without those key injuries, and I sure dont expect us to be a bottom 5 team with those players next year.

Thats the thing, we dont need Jagre to be here on a "mentoring contract", we just need him to be. We got a pretty decent set of forwards coming up. (Eberle, Hall/Seguin, MPS, Omark) to go along with Hemksy, Penner, Gagner etc. All these players (including Hemsky) could learn alot from things as simple as playing with JAgr or just watching him, it could do wonders for the young core of forwards, especially Hemsky.

So in my opinion, bringing in Jagr wont set us back because I dont believe we will be a lottery team next year.

Since 2007 weve had 5 1st rounders. 2007 6th, 15th, 21st. 2008 22nd. 2009 10th. Add to that whatever we get this year and we could have a really decent prospect pool. So why not stop trying to tank and try to develop these picks, who cares if Jagr makes us get 10th overall rather than 7th next year. The knowledge the kids pick up from Jagr would be more valuable than those 3 draft spots.


I would say that we would still finish 12th or 13th if we had these players.

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01-24-2010, 03:12 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
Even if we were to bring in Jagr for next yr this team would still not make the playoffs.Arghh will the Oilers management ever ****ing learn from their stupid mistakes .
You don't know that, we don't even know what next years team looks like why even bother pretending you know that there going to miss the playoffs especially with the edition of JAGR.

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01-24-2010, 03:13 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
I woul say that we would still finish 12th or 13th if we had these players.
Thats my point, if youre not going to get a lottery pick, is it that big of a deal to finish 10th or 11th vs 7th or 8th, when the kids could be developing there game under a 5 time 100 point getter like Jagr? Id say absolutely not.

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01-24-2010, 03:14 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
But what is the point exactly.

You bring him in for a year or two and he leaves.

Maybe you finish 9-12 in the standings and forego high draft picks.

That's not progress IMO.
Here is one problem I have with your argument. Like you I don't think the Oilers should rush their kids. I expect Eberle to be on the big team next year, but would not be suprised if he struggles. I don't expect MPS, and if they do draft Hall, Seguin or Fowler would be perfectly happy if they gave the kid either a sheltered role or allowed him to spend one more year in Junior. Omark is a question mark for me.

Now I would like to see the Oilers shed some salary. This could mean guys like Souray, Moreau, Staios are not back. Other than Souray, you are likely looking at picks or prospects at best for most of the Oilers asset that I think they will move. I don't think going out after the big fish big time on the FA market is the way to go. So who do they have next year if you shed the vets and protect the kids.

The Oilers charge a lot for tickets. As much as it may benefit the team to get a top draft choice again next year, the team does owe it to their paying customers to try an put at least an entertaining team on the ice. If they have no better short-term use for the cap space I don't see signing Jagr to a one year deal as being a big step backwards provided that they do other things that are in their long-term best interest.

Suppose that Jagr signs for one year at $5M. Something like

Penner(4.25) Gagner (2.75) Hemsky (4.1)
O'Sullivan (2.95) Horcoff (5.5) Jagr (5)
Potulny (1.2) Brule (1.8) Eberle (1.3)
JFJ (.7) Cogliano (1.5) xxx (.9)

Omark (1.2)

Smid(1.3) Visnovsky (5.4)
Fistric (1) Gilbert( 4)
Grebs (3.1) xxx (.9)

xxx (.6)

Khabibulin (3.75)
JDD (1.0)


Cap $50.45
where the xxx's are mostly tough, cheap defensively minded vets could be a step in the right direction as the team slowly reshapes itself. (I have taken the liberty of completing the Souray deal for Fistric + )

This team is not going to scare anyone as it is but it could be fun to watch. As more kids come on board you part ways with Jagr, and continue to tinker with the other parts of the line-up as you go.

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01-24-2010, 03:15 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
Even if we were to bring in Jagr for next yr this team would still not make the playoffs.Arghh will the Oilers management ever ****ing learn from their stupid mistakes .
I could be wrong. But I think if they did do this it would not be to make the playoffs (not that they do not want to make them). It would be keep the paying customers coming while we suck next year. You throw out the promise of seeing Hall or Seguin plus Eberle plus Jagr. That would get some season tickets renewed all by itself. I still hope they do not do it but I have a feeling this is what they are thinking. It is tough to sell those high ticket prices in a rebuild and it undermines the new arena prospects when you can not even fill the old one.

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01-24-2010, 03:15 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by tv14 View Post
Are we a bottom 5 team next year, with adding Khabibulin, Hemsky, and Hall/Seguin? I don't think so. Thats our top forward and top goalie. We wouldnt be in this position this year without those key injuries, and I sure dont expect us to be a bottom 5 team with those players next year.

Thats the thing, we dont need Jagre to be here on a "mentoring contract", we just need him to be. We got a pretty decent set of forwards coming up. (Eberle, Hall/Seguin, MPS, Omark) to go along with Hemksy, Penner, Gagner etc. All these players (including Hemsky) could learn alot from things as simple as playing with JAgr or just watching him, it could do wonders for the young core of forwards, especially Hemsky.

So in my opinion, bringing in Jagr wont set us back because I dont believe we will be a lottery team next year.

Since 2007 weve had 5 1st rounders. 2007 6th, 15th, 21st. 2008 22nd. 2009 10th. Add to that whatever we get this year and we could have a really decent prospect pool. So why not stop trying to tank and try to develop these picks, who cares if Jagr makes us get 10th overall rather than 7th next year. The knowledge the kids pick up from Jagr would be more valuable than those 3 draft spots.
How do you know that Khabibulin will even be able to play next year at all? How do you know all those prospects are going to be on the team right away? No, the smart play would be to stop handing out big dollar contracts to over the hill veterans. Let the prospects develop until they are ready. But I guess that would be asking too much from a management team that has proved over and over again that they just dont get it.

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01-24-2010, 03:15 PM
  #93
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You don't know that, we don't even know what next years team looks like why even bother pretending you know that there going to miss the playoffs especially with the edition of JAGR.

Get ready to be disappointed next yr.

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01-24-2010, 03:16 PM
  #94
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I wouldn't mind seeing Jagr here next year if he can still play. The oilers need vets that have experience at something other than riding coat-tails to take pressure off the young players as they break into the league.

My worry is that the Oilers will try to bring him in this year. For the first time in forever, they might be bad enough to get out of that middle zone(never good enough to contend for anything, never bad enough to get top end prospects to get better), and I'm worried they are going to try and do something to ******* it up. Jagr wouldn't take them out of the top 5 or anything, but it wouldn't take much to make this team better than Toronto, Columbus or Carolina right now.

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01-24-2010, 03:21 PM
  #95
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There's nothing necessarily wrong with signing Jagr. It's not like anyone would really expect more than 40-50 points out of him, and that's not enough to really ruin our drafting position (i.e. improve our record by any tangible amount). DSF was just talking about Wolski having mentors -- can you think of a better one available than Jagr? I think he'd be excellent in that respect.

But it all depends on the cap hit. If he were to sign <=$2M, I don't think anyone would complain. I would be ecstatic. But if he wants $5M like some people are saying, that leaves me with a really bad taste in my mouth.

So I'll defer until the signing to voice my outrage.

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01-24-2010, 03:23 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
How do you know that Khabibulin will even be able to play next year at all? How do you know all those prospects are going to be on the team right away? No, the smart play would be to stop handing out big dollar contracts to over the hill veterans. Let the prospects develop until they are ready. But I guess that would be asking too much from a management team that has proved over and over again that they just dont get it.
Is it good for the kids to be on a team that loses 10 straight games? Does it teach them competitiveness? Is it good to throw a group of kids with fragile confidence out against a better team each and every game? No.

Gagner has never played a meaningful game in his 3 years with the Oilers, and some are wondering why he hasnt stepped up to the next level. Maybe this is why. He doesnt know how to win in the NHL. He has never fought for a playoff spot (other than 07/08 where we were so far out till then). Maybe a FULL year of being in the playoff race would help the whole team, and teach them key lessons in winning.

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01-24-2010, 03:27 PM
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Is it good for the kids to be on a team that loses 10 straight games? Does it teach them competitiveness? Is it good to throw a group of kids with fragile confidence out against a better team each and every game? No.

Gagner has never played a meaningful game in his 3 years with the Oilers, and some are wondering why he hasnt stepped up to the next level. Maybe this is why. He doesnt know how to win in the NHL. He has never fought for a playoff spot (other than 07/08 where we were so far out till then). Maybe a FULL year of being in the playoff race would help the whole team, and teach them key lessons in winning.
Jagr doesn't make the Oilers a playoff team. Not even close.

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01-24-2010, 03:27 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Jagr doesn't make the Oilers a playoff team. Not even close.
That's a good thing, though.

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01-24-2010, 03:48 PM
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I agree. IMO, the rebuild ends when we draft Seguin or Hall. Elite talent is what our prospect pool has been lacking. Grab a competent young 'tender (IE: Halak) and we're good to go.
Yeah some of these posters act like we have to fill 50 player roster when its only 23.

I want a top line that is legit (Jagr-Hall/Seguin-Hemsky) very plausible as of right now.

I want a second line that can be counted on for secondary scoring (Paajarvi-Gagner-Penner) Already here or in the system extremely plausible.

I want a checking line with a good two way game and Horcoff has to earn his money somehow (Brule-Horcoff-Eberle) once again already here and in the system its a given.

I want a fourth line that is useful and brings energy (JFj-Potulny-Stortini) They are already here.

In the press box I want a top sixer (Omark) and a enforcer of nuclear effect (Larauque) Thats it everybody else needs to leave thru trade or just released somehow.

I want a top four D with two shut down Dmen and two Offensive Dmen (Smid-Visnovsky-Thru trade-Gilbert)

For the rest of the D I want 1 Defensive Dman and one Offensive Dman and one two way Dman (Chorney-Peckhem-Petry-Maybe trade for more experience but must have good legs still)

I want a healthy Khabibulin then I want a more proven Dubnyk hopefully after this current season but if not we would to trade or sign a capable back up. Halak being the most logical choice.

A decent team is not that far off we just need to rearrange the pieces and add where needed. But the Kids need to play.

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01-24-2010, 03:52 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Jagr doesn't make the Oilers a playoff team. Not even close.
You don't know that, you act like Jagr is not even NHL worthy. I got news for you he has still got it if you need proof he well be in Vancouver playing on the top line on the Czech team to show the world that he is still a heck of a player. Count on it.

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