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The Expected Ottawa Trade Thread

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Old
04-22-2004, 03:02 AM
  #26
kruezer
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*Keeps chanting Spezza*



Come on, this guy couldn't even get on the ice in that series? Garbage, get him into Edmonton.

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Old
04-22-2004, 03:20 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
What a guy, I pray he's an Oiler for life..

I agree with you Cerebral. I wouldn't trade Smytty for Havlat. For Spezza yeah, but not for Havlat. Plus the oilers already had Havlat here..his name was Miroslav Satan. Those type of players don't do well here.

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Old
04-22-2004, 04:33 AM
  #28
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Just offer up Smith and Laraque and see what comes back, no sense in trading off the likes off Torres or Smyth imo for Havlat. If Smyth goes out someone like Hossa or Spezza better be coming back not Havlat.

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Old
04-22-2004, 05:32 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
I don't know how you can say this when the Sens were shutout in 3 games. Goaltending may have been a problem but goalscoring obviously was one as well. You can argue that Belfour stood on his head (he certainly did..) but you still need your big guns to come through against a really hot goaltender. The Sens definitely didn't match the Leafs in goal scoring..
Between outshooting the Leafs by 79 shots over 7 games (11.3 per game), outchancing them over 2-1 and having a 70-30% ice time advantage in the offensive zone during the course of the series, you can say that the Senators dominated the Leafs in all offensive categories. You can argue that the scorers have to put the puck in the net regardless, but hey, running into a hot goalie happens, as the 2003 Red Wings, or the 2001 Flyers will attest. I don't think there's any doubt that there will be changes made though, losing is never acceptable. I'm sure management will try to pinpoint where things went wrong and address them, as they should.

Like I said before, we'd love your Moreau's and your Laraque's, but not for our Havlat's or Spezza's. I think Ottawa is better off signing some savvy veteran, something they have failed to do several years in a row now, passing on the likes of Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Gilmour and Thomas because they were 'too old'. If those guys have taught us anything is that you're never too old to make your contribution come playoff time.

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Old
04-22-2004, 06:27 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo
You're preaching to the choir slats.

I do maintain though, that this Senators team took the play to the Leafs every single game and left it all on the ice.
As much as people like to live by past stereotypes, grit was just not the primary issue.
Dude, your best hockey was period 3 and OT of game 6 and that is exactly when you looked like the Oilers (ie. Grit). You did not "take the play to the Leafs" except for then, if you think otherwise you are smoking a bad batch. Sure your goaltending let you down but how many shutouts did Balfour have????? You should have crashed his sorry a$$ into the back of the net on every shift. I am sorry and really wanted the sens to kick the leafs but grit was definitely missing.

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Old
04-22-2004, 09:37 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meanashell11
Dude, your best hockey was period 3 and OT of game 6 and that is exactly when you looked like the Oilers (ie. Grit). You did not "take the play to the Leafs" except for then, if you think otherwise you are smoking a bad batch. Sure your goaltending let you down but how many shutouts did Balfour have????? You should have crashed his sorry a$$ into the back of the net on every shift. I am sorry and really wanted the sens to kick the leafs but grit was definitely missing.
I dunno... the series should have been over in 4 games. Belfour did to the Sens what he did to the Oilers a few times. Ottawa played 2 bad games, game 5 and game 7. Games 1-4 they dominated, same with game 6 (from about the halfway point on).

The fact of the matter is, the Senators dominated the leafs physically, which was a change from how the Leafs used to beat the Senators.

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Old
04-22-2004, 09:39 AM
  #32
Strapping Jocks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
In the transaction thread when that deal went down, I said Bondra? You don't need no stinking Bondra...Hossa, Bonk, Havlat, Alfredsson, Smolinski, White, Spezza, what the hell does Ottawa need with a scoring winger, that is just nuts. I mentioned the grit issue, I mentioned that Ottawa needs a guy that will go to war for you, put his face in front of the puck to stop that goal, and let the heart and desire lead the team. Ryan Smyth is a player like that, and Jason Smith is a player like that, and so is Ethan Moreau, and Horcoff and Reasoner and and and...but the Oilers have 12 such forwards and no one to score the big goal when needed. So why wasn't Ottawa interested in making a deal specifically to get the warriors needed to compete. This we will never know.
We will never know, but I remember reading on Spector's Trade Rumors that around the trade deadline, there might have been some action, but Muckler thought Lowe's 'asking price' was too high.

The frustrating thing with the Sens (as my second fav. team) is that they don't want to deal any of their multitude of skilled RW for the things they need. Often, you've got to give to get....

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Old
04-22-2004, 09:44 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
I dunno... the series should have been over in 4 games. Belfour did to the Sens what he did to the Oilers a few times. Ottawa played 2 bad games, game 5 and game 7. Games 1-4 they dominated, same with game 6 (from about the halfway point on).

The fact of the matter is, the Senators dominated the leafs physically, which was a change from how the Leafs used to beat the Senators.
The Sens did dominate physically (which was nice to see!), and after Game 4 I thought the oldies on the Leafs weren't going to be able to take it anymore.

But one of the stumbling blocks in the series was that the Sens snipers weren't getting the puck to the net. Then the Leafs scored first, and just played their game and collapsed around the net. Shots on the PP were always hitting a Leaf and then were cleared....

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Old
04-22-2004, 09:51 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meanashell11
Dude, your best hockey was period 3 and OT of game 6 and that is exactly when you looked like the Oilers (ie. Grit). You did not "take the play to the Leafs" except for then, if you think otherwise you are smoking a bad batch. Sure your goaltending let you down but how many shutouts did Balfour have????? You should have crashed his sorry a$$ into the back of the net on every shift. I am sorry and really wanted the sens to kick the leafs but grit was definitely missing.

Doesn't an Oiler fan telling anyone how to score on the Eagle in the playoffs come off sounding goofy. I am all for swapping skill for grit with Ottawa. But in Ottawa's defense the Eagle is a fricken WALL in the post season. How many times did the Oilers outwork the Stars all game only to have Shallow let in a stinker with 5 minutes to go... The Eddie is a force when it matters most. Crashing the net only makes him play harder. We know all to well in Oilerville.

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Old
04-22-2004, 09:52 AM
  #35
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i didn't watch much of the series so i'm asking here, was there any traffic in front of Ed Belfour (the stuff that Ryan Smyth would do to eddie)?

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Old
04-22-2004, 09:55 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windowlicker
If someway, somehow Muckler wound up after the deadline with Smyth, Smith & Laraque I dont think the Sens lose this one. And this is not the Oiler fan in me talking. The Sens needed grit, not Bondra. Muckler blew it.
Bingo. Alot of my family and friends are Sens fans. They all agree that Muckler drop the ball here. Bondra was not needed. The highest scoring team in the NHL does not need another scorer. Some Sens were even suggesting that Josh Langfeld should have played vs TO. I think the Sens are tough enough. In fact, they ***** slap the Leafs pretty go in the series. What the Sens lack are players like Smyth and Moreau who will play in the slot and pay the price.

Mucks also blew it on de Vries. A heard something that in NY, the players did not follow any training regiment and de Vries should up in Ottawa very out-of-shape.

I think Muckler made changes for the sake of making changes.

LOwe should not over pay for any Sens players unless it's Alfredsson, Fisher or Hossa, maybe even Volchenkov and Vermette.

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Old
04-22-2004, 10:20 AM
  #37
Mr Sakich
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according to Sports Forecaster Magazine:

oilers Right Wingers
York
Devo
Pisani
Laraque
Hemsky
Rita

Oilers Left Wingers
Smyth
Torres
Ethan
Isbister
Chimera

I think our wingers are our strength and the upgrade must be made to our centre and possibly goaltending. I like Havlat but I would rather have York's heart and Devo's all around game. If we traded Smyth, then Torres would be our #1 LW. Has anyone ever heard of the term - sophmore slump? Lowe would be creating a bigger hole by trading Smyth for Havlat and we would still need a #1 centre.

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Old
04-22-2004, 10:43 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsessed
Doesn't an Oiler fan telling anyone how to score on the Eagle in the playoffs come off sounding goofy. I am all for swapping skill for grit with Ottawa. But in Ottawa's defense the Eagle is a fricken WALL in the post season. How many times did the Oilers outwork the Stars all game only to have Shallow let in a stinker with 5 minutes to go... The Eddie is a force when it matters most. Crashing the net only makes him play harder. We know all to well in Oilerville.
It also helps Belfour make some stupid mistakes. Can't forget Laraques goal a few years ago. The Oilers had the man for the front of the net, but no snipers. Ottawa this series had all of the snipers, but not a guy infront of Belfours face.

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Old
04-22-2004, 10:56 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
according to Sports Forecaster Magazine:

oilers Right Wingers
York
Devo
Pisani
Laraque
Hemsky
Rita

Oilers Left Wingers
Smyth
Torres
Ethan
Isbister
Chimera

I think our wingers are our strength and the upgrade must be made to our centre and possibly goaltending. I like Havlat but I would rather have York's heart and Devo's all around game. If we traded Smyth, then Torres would be our #1 LW. Has anyone ever heard of the term - sophmore slump? Lowe would be creating a bigger hole by trading Smyth for Havlat and we would still need a #1 centre.
I see what your saying. The Oilers are in a tough position, but if a trade like that did happen, why not put York on the side he plays best on? Assuming we'd Nedved still.
York-Nedved-Havlat
Torres/Isbister-Horcoff-Dvorak
Moreau-Reasoner-Pisani
Torres/Isbister-Stoll-Hemsky
Obviously I have no clue what I'm doing with the lines, but you could roll Yorks line more often than the rest, and have Dvorak and Hemsky's lines getting even minutes.

Shoot I forgot about BG.

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Old
04-22-2004, 01:03 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanryann
I don't see any of those trades ever happening. Smyth and Moreau are the heart and soul of this team. Hemsky is the future, the cream of the crop, regardless of what we saw this season.

I'm willing to bet every penny I have that none of those three will be traded to anyone. Likewise, I highly doubt the Sens would trade away their two top youngersters. I just don't see how that would help them.

I agree. You guys are overvaluing Havlat big time. He is too soft.

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Old
04-22-2004, 01:18 PM
  #41
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Ottawa's best bet was to make a HUGE pitch for Smyth or Moreau, and failing that that, make a big pitch for Laraque - with Muckler making a personal pitch to Laraque if he figured he needed to.

We all know that Laraque plays better (hell - he tends to play freakin' awesome in the play-offs) when the games mean something and with Chara and Laraque parked in front of the net Belfour would have had big, nasty ass in his face all the time - and that may have made all the difference.

Laraque would have been a better trade than Bondra and that is the one that Muckler missed on because that is the one that would have cost him the least.


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Old
04-22-2004, 01:20 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aspin
I agree. You guys are overvaluing Havlat big time. He is too soft.
Could it be said that the Oilers overvalue Grit? Havlat may be soft, but 80% of the Oilers squad is grit with a decent shot, and vice versa with Ottawa and their talent.

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Old
04-22-2004, 01:57 PM
  #43
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I don't want to swap Smyth either - but Torres for Havlat makes big sense. Sens get big time grit with decent scoring on LW and we get a sniper on the RW. What's not to like from both sides?

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Old
04-22-2004, 02:21 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xerburt
why is everyone obsessed with getting a scoring forward?
One theory its because its what the Oilers especially need; even MacT and Lowe have put forward this theory, with both appearing to have their fingers crossed over Hemsky developing that way.

The Oilers were top-10 in the league in even-strength +/-. Even strength is not their problem. At all. Even with Horcoff as a #1 centre, for crying out loud. The theory says they need a PP and its driven primarily by skill.

There is definitely some merit to this theory. Witness Nedved and his 9 PP points in 16 games (40% of his total). I don't think its much of a stretch to say that with even a top-20 powerplay, the Oilers would have made the playoffs, even with the oft-putrid goaltending.

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Old
04-22-2004, 02:23 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aspin
I agree. You guys are overvaluing Havlat big time. He is too soft.
Havlat is 22 and scoring a PPG. I could use some of that soft.

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Old
04-22-2004, 02:24 PM
  #46
Master Lok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
according to Sports Forecaster Magazine:

oilers Right Wingers
York
Devo
Pisani
Laraque
Hemsky
Rita

Oilers Left Wingers
Smyth
Torres
Ethan
Isbister
Chimera

I think our wingers are our strength and the upgrade must be made to our centre and possibly goaltending. I like Havlat but I would rather have York's heart and Devo's all around game. If we traded Smyth, then Torres would be our #1 LW. Has anyone ever heard of the term - sophmore slump? Lowe would be creating a bigger hole by trading Smyth for Havlat and we would still need a #1 centre.
An excellent point Mr. Sakich! Three things the Oilers NEED:
1) Top line centreman
2) #1 goalie
3) Offensive dman.

#3 is alleviated with the development of MA Bergeron. But while Spezza is certainly drool worthy, I'm not sure how realistic it is for Ottawa to give him up. I don't think Muckler is stupid enough to do that. More realistic trade bait would be Lalime, and Bonk. The question is do the Oilers WANT either one of them? Bonk has a tendency to disappear for stretches but has excellent talent. Instead of Spezza, I would try for Vermette, 22 yo young skilled centreman.

IF Bonk was CHEAP, I would consider:

to EDM: Radek Bonk, Patrick Lalime
to OTT: Ty Conklin, Shawn Horcoff

But I would rather have Vermette.

to EDM: Antoine Vermette, Patrick Lalime
to OTT: Shawn Horcoff or Brad Isbister, Jason Smith, Ty Conklin

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Old
04-22-2004, 05:27 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo
You're preaching to the choir slats.

I do maintain though, that this Senators team took the play to the Leafs every single game and left it all on the ice.
As much as people like to live by past stereotypes, grit was just not the primary issue.

The Sens hit, but they are reluctant to take the hits. There is a huge difference.

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Old
04-22-2004, 07:18 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogeo69
An excellent point Mr. Sakich! Three things the Oilers NEED:
1) Top line centreman
2) #1 goalie
3) Offensive dman.

#3 is alleviated with the development of MA Bergeron. But while Spezza is certainly drool worthy, I'm not sure how realistic it is for Ottawa to give him up. I don't think Muckler is stupid enough to do that. More realistic trade bait would be Lalime, and Bonk. The question is do the Oilers WANT either one of them? Bonk has a tendency to disappear for stretches but has excellent talent. Instead of Spezza, I would try for Vermette, 22 yo young skilled centreman.
I don't think the Sens would want to trade Vermette either... and isn't he a winger? I could be wrong though..

I'd think they'd much rather trade Bonk to clear up space for Spezza.

Also, do the Oilers have anyone that's a proven sniper? I'm not convinced they do, even on the wings. It would be great to have a consistent 30-goal (or close) scorer (Guerin )

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Old
04-22-2004, 07:37 PM
  #49
Master Lok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikcotyck
I don't think the Sens would want to trade Vermette either... and isn't he a winger? I could be wrong though..

I'd think they'd much rather trade Bonk to clear up space for Spezza.

Also, do the Oilers have anyone that's a proven sniper? I'm not convinced they do, even on the wings. It would be great to have a consistent 30-goal (or close) scorer (Guerin )
Vermette was drafted as a center, but was played on the wings in Ottawa because they're so short on quality LW.

Yah, agreed Ottawa would likely want to trade Bonk but he's older, more expensive ($ wise, not trade wise). I'd still rather want Vermette and might pay the extra player or pick. Bonk has a reputation for disappearing come crunch time.

A consistent 30 goal man? nope. Ryan Smyth is the closest thing. But on the Oilers, there's very much scoring by committee. Our top three LW's all scored 20. (Smyth, Torres, Moreau). I have hope that Dvorak can score 20 next year and hopefully Hemsky will bounce back.

I would NOT trade Torres for Havlat. I'm content with our RW as they stand (Hemsky, Dvorak, Pisani). I might be tempted to trade Torres for a centreman (Spezza!) but otherwise, I'd like to keep him. Torres has the potential to score 30 in the future, he's gritty and agitates and can release a quick but heavy shot.

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Old
04-22-2004, 09:55 PM
  #50
Asiaoil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogeo69
I would NOT trade Torres for Havlat. I'm content with our RW as they stand (Hemsky, Dvorak, Pisani). I might be tempted to trade Torres for a centreman (Spezza!) but otherwise, I'd like to keep him. Torres has the potential to score 30 in the future, he's gritty and agitates and can release a quick but heavy shot.
Havlat already has scored 30 and the qualities you describe in Torres are exactly what Ottawa needs on LW on their top 2 lines. We could afford to lose Torres with Smyth, Isbister and Moreau here to fill out our top 3 LW positions - and Rita, Chimera and Mikhnov around to fill out the #4 slot.

Buy low - sell high is a Lowe strategy - and Torres has increased his value to the extent that trading him and a lesser prospect for Havlat is not unrealistic. Just think of these lines next year:

Smyth Nedved Dvorak
Isbister York Havlat
Moreau Reasoner Pisani
Horcoff Stoll Laraque/Hemsky

That forward lineup is way more talented than anything we have had around Edmonton for years and would get us 100 points.

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