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Old
01-28-2010, 05:04 PM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrass View Post
Yeah, this thread got a little out of hand.

Yes, Doughty is clearly the better player now. He grew up playing the North American game. It is his second year in the NHL and he is currently fulfilling his potential. He plays on the PP, against top players etc. etc.. Good for him, I hope he plays well for Canada.

Karlsson is not the same type of player as Doughty. He grew up playing on a different ice surface. He is much smaller, and more skilled (please don't argue this, he is) and it is his first year in the league. He only sees occassional time on the 2nd unit PP, which will likely change next year. Looks to be developing well - good for the sens!

Will Karlsson be like Doughty in the future in terms of physical and defensive play? It's possible, but he would have to fill out his frame first, and learn how to use it.

Will Karlsson fulfill his offensive potential? Considering his sponge-like absorption of the North American game so far - I would say yes.

That's my .02
Ok, so we can put this in stone as an absolute fact--completely non-debatable.

So can we expect a 60+ point season out of Karlsson next year? Because that's the pace that Doughty is at this season. Just curious.

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01-28-2010, 05:09 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by KarmaPolice View Post
Ok, so we can put this in stone as an absolute fact--completely non-debatable.

So can we expect a 60+ point season out of Karlsson next year? Because that's the pace that Doughty is at this season. Just curious.
I don't think many people are guaranteeing him, at least the large majority of Sens fans. But there is the potential possibility he could catch up or surpass Doughty's game. There's the potential he just becomes a top pairing guy, there's the possibility he's a great top pairing guy, and theres a possibility he becomes the top guy in the league, but you can say that about several young D-Men. They're mostly just saying he has a chance.

This thread is terrible.

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01-28-2010, 05:12 PM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
I don't think many people are guaranteeing him, at least the large majority of Sens fans. But there is the potential possibility he could catch up or surpass Doughty's game. There's the potential he just becomes a top pairing guy, there's the possibility he's a great top pairing guy, and theres a possibility he becomes the top guy in the league, but you can say that about several young D-Men. They're mostly just saying he has a chance.

This thread is terrible.
But there definitely are some people making these guarantees! Did you not miss the post above mine. Perhaps he meant more skilled in a different way? Such as in puck poise?

Anyway, how many Norris Trophy's you guys surmise he'll rake in. Just a rough guess will do. Four? Five?

Sens are actually my 2nd favorite team, believe it or not. I better get a Karlsson jersey. I mean, Gilbert looked so great in his first season with the Oilers too and now...oh, uh, forget that.

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01-28-2010, 05:19 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarmaPolice View Post
But there definitely are some people making these guarantees! Did you not miss the post above mine. Perhaps he meant more skilled in a different way? Such as in puck poise?

Anyway, how many Norris Trophy's you guys surmise he'll rake in. Just a rough guess will do. Four? Five?

Sens are actually my 2nd favorite team, believe it or not. I better get a Karlsson jersey. I mean, Gilbert looked so great in his first season with the Oilers too and now...oh, uh, forget that.
I know, but I'm saying if you poll Sens fans not many would guarantee a thing.
It's possible he wins 5, its possible he never gets top 10 in voting.

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01-28-2010, 05:21 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
I know, but I'm saying if you poll Sens fans not many would guarantee a thing.
It's possible he wins 5, its possible he never gets top 10 in voting.
So...I should put off on my Karlsson jersey purchase...for now (but very likely not long). Thanks bud. And yes, I truly am a big Sens fan. They're the only other team I cheer for.

Oh, and Fear & Loathing is probably my favorite movie.

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01-28-2010, 05:24 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by KarmaPolice View Post
So...I should put off on my Karlsson jersey purchase...for now (but very likely not long). Thanks bud. And yes, I truly am a big Sens fan. They're the only other team I cheer for.

Oh, and Fear & Loathing is probably my favorite movie.
Yeah, I'd maybe wait a couple of years before you buy it.

If you like Fear & Loathing you're cool with me.

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01-28-2010, 05:25 PM
  #232
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LOL @ Sens fans. Comparing to Doughty? Are you serious..... You need to take your Senators Homer glasses off.

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01-28-2010, 05:30 PM
  #233
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LOL @ Sens fans. Comparing to Doughty? Are you serious..... You need to take your Senators Homer glasses off.
I don't disagree, but section8 lecturing people on being homers?

Beautiful.

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01-28-2010, 05:36 PM
  #234
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Seems like i have missed a lot of fun in this thread. Not going to go back but some people need to manage their emotions a bit better.

Anyways, 1 advice to Sens fans : don't make comparison like Karlsson with Doughty, that's asking for some hate from other fanbases, in this case Oilers fans.

Leave our prospects do their own justice. And with the scouting staff we have in Ottawa, we don't have to envy any other team in the league, don't worry.

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01-28-2010, 06:11 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarmaPolice View Post
Ok, so we can put this in stone as an absolute fact--completely non-debatable.

So can we expect a 60+ point season out of Karlsson next year? Because that's the pace that Doughty is at this season. Just curious.
It would be a fact if he was playing in the garbage Western Conference.

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01-28-2010, 06:13 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giraffe Cookies View Post
It would be a fact if he was playing in the garbage Western Conference.
The garbage WC where it'll take more points to make the playoffs than the EC. I see.

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01-28-2010, 06:43 PM
  #237
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I want in on this argument.




OUR PROSPECTS ARE BETTER THAN YOUR PROSPECTS!!!@@@

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Old
01-28-2010, 06:46 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Really I don't think Sens fans are saying anything like "Karlsson *will absolutely become better than* Doughty."

All I said, was that:
1) Doughty is better (today).
2) That long-term, I don't know if it will be so clear cut (and really, neither can you. This is why it's the future).
3) That I felt Karlsson had unbelievable offensive skills (which is not to suggest Doughty does not, but merely that I think Karlsson's ceiling is the sky when it comes to offense).
4) That it remained to be seen when, or if, Karlsson would be as good all around as Doughty.

If you can't accept that, fine, don't. I don't really care. However please refrain from putting words in mine (or others) mouths.
You do understand that Doughty already is one of the best offensive defensman in the league correct?

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01-28-2010, 06:47 PM
  #239
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This thread is such a gong show

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Old
01-28-2010, 06:51 PM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
You do understand that Doughty already is one of the best offensive defensman in the league correct?
Yes?

I think Doughty is amazing. I wish we had him too.

He was far away the #1 defenseman in his draft class, and players like Bogo and Schenn are pretty solid in their own right too.

Honestly, watch the way Karlsson plays the game. He isn't Doughty, but his hockey IQ is off the charts. He's got a wicked shot, and gets better game by game. I realize Doughty is on pace for a 60 point year, and I realize Doughty is a BETTER all around defenseman (both now and going forward)...

But Karlsson has that elite skill set that very few players have... whether it means he becomes a top 5 defenseman in the league (offensively) or not, who knows. Does he have that potential? I think so.

Does that mean he reaches it? Of course not. However, I think some people significantly underrate him because he struggled when he first came over.

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01-28-2010, 06:53 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Giraffe Cookies View Post
It would be a fact if he was playing in the garbage Western Conference.
Uhhh..... the west has a much better record than the east, and is unanimously the better conference according to sports writers and analasysts.

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01-28-2010, 06:57 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Yes?

I think Doughty is amazing. I wish we had him too.

He was far away the #1 defenseman in his draft class, and players like Bogo and Schenn are pretty solid in their own right too.

Honestly, watch the way Karlsson plays the game. He isn't Doughty, but his hockey IQ is off the charts. He's got a wicked shot, and gets better game by game. I realize Doughty is on pace for a 60 point year, and I realize Doughty is a BETTER all around defenseman (both now and going forward)...

But Karlsson has that elite skill set that very few players have... whether it means he becomes a top 5 defenseman in the league (offensively) or not, who knows. Does he have that potential? I think so.

Does that mean he reaches it? Of course not. However, I think some people significantly underrate him because he struggled when he first came over.
I'm not underrating him. You guys should be very happy with how hes playing. He'll be a huge asset to your team for a very long time. I just find it laughable when people talk about his offensive game like it is somehow better than Doughtys. "He's just got it." Really? Because in his second year, Doughty is already one of the best offensive defensman. He isn't going to improve at all? This is as good as he can get?

Look, as I've said, you guys have yourself a great player in Karlsson. But to me, comparing him in any way to Doughty, and that includes offense, is asinine.

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01-28-2010, 08:07 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post
I'm not underrating him. You guys should be very happy with how hes playing. He'll be a huge asset to your team for a very long time. I just find it laughable when people talk about his offensive game like it is somehow better than Doughtys. "He's just got it." Really? Because in his second year, Doughty is already one of the best offensive defensman. He isn't going to improve at all? This is as good as he can get?

Look, as I've said, you guys have yourself a great player in Karlsson. But to me, comparing him in any way to Doughty, and that includes offense, is asinine.
How did this get to Karlsson vs Doughty?

I do understand Pyke's argument and I dont disagree with him.

Doughty looks like a future hall of famer right now.

Karlsson appears like he could impact games in a similar way that Doughty does if he reaches his highest potential. I would have never said this at the start of the season, either. I think most Sens fans are shocked at how fast hes catching on, its rare you literally are able to watch a kid improve every single game.

If he hits potential he could probably be a top 15 defencemen in the league. If Doughty performs as expected hes more likely to be a top 5 guy in the league year in year out. Theres big differences between the words "could" and "expect" though.

The argument that Karlsson is better offensively is more an argument of his artistry and talent on the ice, hes high risk, he does things you see no one else do. He has a sick set of hands and feet. If he hits potential he may not out produce Doughty, or he could, but he'll likely hit the highlight reel more (and dont let that start a new argument). Im just explaining people are so drawn to talk about Karlssons offensive ability because he makes it look so damn good, it may never result in more production. It is good to have these players as fans love watching them, but it doesnt mean one is better.

People sometimes get excited about the cool things a player can do, and mix that up with how good the player actually is. Look at Rob Schremp, but thats where that comparison stops.

Karlsson could potentially be what Doughty is, but many things have to fall in place and even after that he has to keep improving. Its not like hes the only prospect in the league that COULD be that good, either.

Doughty could potentially be one of the best of all time, its not fair to say that about Karlsson. Although both could be among eachother as high impact players.

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01-29-2010, 05:44 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by KarmaPolice View Post
The garbage WC where it'll take more points to make the playoffs than the EC. I see.
Dont want to go off topic but I have too.

So the west is better because it is projected that it will take more points to make the playoffs. How about last season, wasn't the west still better than the east despite the 8th place team in the east having more points than the 8th in the west.

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01-29-2010, 05:53 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post
I'm not underrating him. You guys should be very happy with how hes playing. He'll be a huge asset to your team for a very long time. I just find it laughable when people talk about his offensive game like it is somehow better than Doughtys. "He's just got it." Really? Because in his second year, Doughty is already one of the best offensive defensman. He isn't going to improve at all? This is as good as he can get?

Look, as I've said, you guys have yourself a great player in Karlsson. But to me, comparing him in any way to Doughty, and that includes offense, is asinine.
Both are going to improve but there is a lot more room for improvement with Karlsson than Doughty. I wouldn't be surprised to see Doughty peak offensively at an early age. The fact is Doughty is better at the moment and is on pace for 60 points this year but I will guarantee that Doughty's production will not improve season by season. Doughty was trained to be able to step into the NHL at a young age, Karlsson was not.

The Doughty and Karlsson comparison is talked about among Sens fans because according to TSN on draft day there were some scouts who believed that Karlsson has the offensive potential to outscore Doughty in 5 years or so.

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01-29-2010, 08:28 AM
  #246
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Uhhh..... the west has a much better record than the east, and is unanimously the better conference according to sports writers and analasysts.
according to anal cysts?

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Old
01-29-2010, 08:29 AM
  #247
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Both are going to improve but there is a lot more room for improvement with Karlsson than Doughty. I wouldn't be surprised to see Doughty peak offensively at an early age. The fact is Doughty is better at the moment and is on pace for 60 points this year but I will guarantee that Doughty's production will not improve season by season. Doughty was trained to be able to step into the NHL at a young age, Karlsson was not.

The Doughty and Karlsson comparison is talked about among Sens fans because according to TSN on draft day there were some scouts who believed that Karlsson has the offensive potential to outscore Doughty in 5 years or so.
If there was anyone who thought Karlsson would outscore Doughty at any period in time, I hope to god they have been fired.

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01-29-2010, 08:31 AM
  #248
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according to anal cysts?
Thats right. Anal cysts have told me. Not my anal cysts, someone elses.

I'm on my work computer and don't have spell check and am pretty tired when I'm on here. Expect more spelling and gramatical in the future.

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01-29-2010, 09:35 AM
  #249
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If there was anyone who thought Karlsson would outscore Doughty at any period in time, I hope to god they have been fired.
?....The kid's 19. How could you possibly know that.

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01-29-2010, 12:04 PM
  #250
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If there was anyone who thought Karlsson would outscore Doughty at any period in time, I hope to god they have been fired.
I dont think anyone would have ever used the word "would" as you did.

Its an argument of potential. And if you watched TSN last night you'd understand the guys offensive potential is off the charts. Puckmoving defencemen with his build dont even make the NHL at 19. Even Sens fans thought we were destroying him, they were all wrong.

Remember I used the word potential, which is similar to the word "could" (not to be confused with "would" or "will").

Thanks for coming out though.

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