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Old
01-26-2010, 11:33 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Hiphopopotamus View Post
A little late in this debate but yeah... Small forwards all belong in Edmonton and MPS wasn't good enough to be taken with the #9 pick last season and he's definitely not good enough to be traded for Cowen today.

As for Cowen's WJC tournament. I forgot that all careers are made or broken in the WJC. Jeff Glass is having quite the NHL career, isn't he?
Not that Im disagreeing with your post. But the Jeff Glass example is overused and inaccurate, he was never a big time prospect. He was in tough to become an NHL starter as he was drafted in the 3rd round. He played behind the best WJC in history and he was considered the only part of the team that may keep it from winning gold.

Spezza's probably a better example (and Im sure theres better examples)

4 assists in 7 games in his last (and 3rd) WJC. It was a while ago, and you could argue he may have still played well, but knowing Spezza if he wasnt producing numbers he probably wasnt doing much. Far from the expectations youd have for one of the few kids that made it at 16 and drafted 2nd overall. He ended up translating into the NHL basically as expected. The WJC was no indicator of his career or his future paycheck.

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01-26-2010, 11:51 AM
  #102
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Honestly though, the trade proposal was a joke from the beginning, although sadly it probably wasnt meant to be.

Eberle isnt a superstar in the waiting, although who knows, he could be. Even if Oilers brass never see him playing on a top line, theres no way in hell he goes anywhere. The guy is already a star in the hockey world. Hes gonna be a fan favourite. Oilers fans wont tolerate trading this guy. Hes a sure bet to be a top 6 player in the league and everyone knows he seems to be the guy when the games on the line. No one is gonna pay enough to get what the Oilers would want in return, he has a lot of value to the rebuilding Oilers.

MPS is no sure thing, but could be a huge thing. Hes the reason I hope the Oilers get Seguin instead of Hall.

Cowen struggled at the WJC and no one knows for sure why. He had a unique situation, his knee problem is likely real. Otherwise he was a top 5 pick. All reports is that hes been steller in the WHL and looks like a different player. I dont get to scout hockey every day so I cant really explain it. Because of these questions marks, why consider him being part of a trade. No ones gonna trade anything for the risk that he is, he may end up being great. He will be part of no trades though.

Weircioch is a potential gem. Its true, at 6'5 205 and already an offensive minded player, hes more of a project but if Ottawa waits, you may be surprised at what he brings. In 2-3 years the guy could easily have another 20-25 pounds on him, if his skating is worked with successfully its hard to imagine this guy not translating pro. Without the injury (knee, figures..) many scouts agreed he was gonna be a WJC player and there was talk he was playing for top 4 minutes.

The prospects here all have question marks, all have upsides, but its an unrealistic trade request. Teams hold on to their higher end picks (MPS, Cowen) until they bust in their respective market, and GMs have a lot of pride in their picks that eventually show more promise down the road as opposed to draft day (Weircioch, Eberle)

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Old
01-26-2010, 12:19 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
regarding you comment on Weircioch. The oil have a guy named Jeff Petry who is better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
Some of the stuff I've read has Weircioch as a very mistake prone defenseman and Petry as a dominant defenseman in his own zone. Lets leave that alone though.
Really? Didn't seem like this last year :

Jeff Petry : 38 GP 2 G 12 A 14 PTS -31 (2 years older) (ouch - 31 in 38 games)

Patrick Wiercioch : WCHA 36 GP 12 G 23 A 35 PTS + 5 (NCAA freshman)

Petry seems to have a better season this year but he is a senior, last NCAA season. It was about time... Wiercioch still outscore Petry in his sophomore season while dealing with injuries...

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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Remember Ottawa did not want Cowan they wanted Kadri as per the little convo on the draft floor between Burke and Murray.
Your mom never told you to not believe everything you see? Particulary when it's through medias...

What if Murray's intention was to make sure Burke wasn't taking Cowen or MPS, so he could secure one of the two without making any move?

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Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
I don't get you man. You seem to think everybody is better than MPS. You think Kadri could be 3rd on his team in goals and points in the SEL? Of course not, he doesn't have the athletic ability that MPS has. MPS is the better player and is more nhl ready as of today. Just ask Ray bourque he said hes a first liner at this very moment.
Rookie scoring in the SEL :

1 Krüger, Marcus DIF CE 31 9 18 27
2 Pääjärvi-Svensson, Magnus TIK LW 36 9 13 22
3 Johansson, Marcus FBK LW 31 8 8 16
4 Petersson, André HV71 LW 32 10 5 15
5 Josefson, Jacob DIF CE 31 5 10 15
6 Larsson, Adam SKE LD 36 3 10 13
7 Lander, Anton TIK LW 36 4 8 12
8 Silfverberg, Jakob BIF LW 35 7 4 11

You know the difference? MPS plays on the 2nd line for Timra, while Petersson and Silfverberg play on the 4th line for their respective clubs. MPS better watch out, the 4th round pick Petersson is only 7 points behind with 4 less games played.

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Old
01-26-2010, 12:31 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Rookie scoring in the SEL :

1 Krüger, Marcus DIF CE 31 9 18 27
2 Pääjärvi-Svensson, Magnus TIK LW 36 9 13 22
3 Johansson, Marcus FBK LW 31 8 8 16
4 Petersson, André HV71 LW 32 10 5 15
5 Josefson, Jacob DIF CE 31 5 10 15
6 Larsson, Adam SKE LD 36 3 10 13
7 Lander, Anton TIK LW 36 4 8 12
8 Silfverberg, Jakob BIF LW 35 7 4 11

You know the difference? MPS plays on the 2nd line for Timra, while Petersson and Silfverberg play on the 4th line for their respective clubs. MPS better watch out, the 4th round pick Petersson is only 7 points behind with 4 less games played.
Petersson is 5'9 and 169 lbs while MPS is 6'2, 208 lbs. Paajarvi's game will translate better in the NHL while Petersson would be killed by 6'3 d-men. Petersson is also a year older than MPS. Don't compare the two, Petersson isn't even close to being as good as MPS.

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Old
01-26-2010, 12:32 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Really really a bad thread idea, this will not go well... and I have only read your OP when i wrote this...

And not interested in those deals. Maybe Cowen for MPS but we all know that won't happen



What about Michalek? What about Fisher?

Michalek-Spezza-Fisher

What about Petersson? Seems to have 1st line potential
Who knows about Regin potential at this point?
What about the UFA market?
What about future draft picks?

I don't care if our future 1st line is not as deadly as the CASH line (Heatley-Spezza-Alfredsson), as long as our 2nd and 3rd lines can score consistently.
Michalek is a first line player. Fisher has shown that he cannot be effective unless there is another scoring line other than his to deflect some of the attention from the primary checking forward line and defence pairing on the other team. I don't think that you can say that any of our prospects project to be first liners at the moment. I think Regin and Foligno can be solid 2nd liners, but certainly I do not think they will score enough to deflect enough attention away from Fisher's line if he is on the primary scoring line. Future draft picks : your guess is as good as mine. I don't want to get back to a situation (especially after Kovy and Alfie are gone) where we have one scoring line, and if that line is shut down, our other lines can't score enough to win games when the first line is going. i.e. back to the days of the CASH line. It may come down to the UFA market, since after next year, we have Cheechoo and Kovy off the books, and that is 8 mill of cap space right there. Hopefully, retain Cheech at no more than 1 mill per, a couple of our young guys will play 3rd/4th line roles on ELC contracts, and maybe pick up a couple of 4 million dollar UFAs, or one superstar (preferably a couple of 4 million dollar guys).

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Old
01-26-2010, 12:41 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Gagster View Post
Petersson is 5'9 and 169 lbs while MPS is 6'2, 208 lbs. Paajarvi's game will translate better in the NHL while Petersson would be killed by 6'3 d-men. Petersson is also a year older than MPS. Don't compare the two, Petersson isn't even close to being as good as MPS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vIg7...x=0&playnext=1

Petersson will be exactly like this.
EXACTLY like this.

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Old
01-26-2010, 12:43 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vIg7...x=0&playnext=1

Petersson will be exactly like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szWQPoOH2Rw

This guy is better.

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Old
01-26-2010, 12:48 PM
  #108
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He's only 5'9 168 pounds he sucks...


Do you really need to compare every prospect?

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Old
01-26-2010, 12:51 PM
  #109
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Of course he is.

I have to say, if Edmonton isn't a dynasty within the next couple of years, it will be an epic fail by management.

Really, though, we might as well give the Oilers the Cup right now, because it's obvious no one will stand a chance in the coming years.

Wait a minute, weren't Gagner, Cogliano, and Nilsson already supposed to lead you guys to the Stanley Cup? What gives?

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01-26-2010, 02:01 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Yelnats Puc View Post
Of course he is.

I have to say, if Edmonton isn't a dynasty within the next couple of years, it will be an epic fail by management.

Really, though, we might as well give the Oilers the Cup right now, because it's obvious no one will stand a chance in the coming years.

Wait a minute, weren't Gagner, Cogliano, and Nilsson already supposed to lead you guys to the Stanley Cup? What gives?
its okay, the young guys are all superstars, the problem is bums like hemsky.

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01-26-2010, 02:15 PM
  #111
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By both sides.
Yeah, I actually did mean both sides.

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01-26-2010, 02:24 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Yelnats Puc View Post
Of course he is.

I have to say, if Edmonton isn't a dynasty within the next couple of years, it will be an epic fail by management.

Really, though, we might as well give the Oilers the Cup right now, because it's obvious no one will stand a chance in the coming years.

Wait a minute, weren't Gagner, Cogliano, and Nilsson already supposed to lead you guys to the Stanley Cup? What gives?
There 20, 22 ,25. Theres still time

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Old
01-26-2010, 02:29 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Rookie scoring in the SEL :

1 Krüger, Marcus DIF CE 31 9 18 27
2 Pääjärvi-Svensson, Magnus TIK LW 36 9 13 22
3 Johansson, Marcus FBK LW 31 8 8 16
4 Petersson, André HV71 LW 32 10 5 15
5 Josefson, Jacob DIF CE 31 5 10 15
6 Larsson, Adam SKE LD 36 3 10 13
7 Lander, Anton TIK LW 36 4 8 12
8 Silfverberg, Jakob BIF LW 35 7 4 11

You know the difference? MPS plays on the 2nd line for Timra, while Petersson and Silfverberg play on the 4th line for their respective clubs. MPS better watch out, the 4th round pick Petersson is only 7 points behind with 4 less games played.
You adressed the petry thing yourself. Petry is a dominant defenseman this season. He had a tough year last year on a bad team and is now dominating on a better team.

As for Ottawas swedes getting less minutes. Don't you think theres a reason that Petterrsson and Silfverberg are getting 7 minutes(15) and 11 minutes(11) less per game than MPS? I doesn't enter into your thought process that it's because the guy is a better player than those two, more nhl ready both mentally and physically and a bigger threat to score? Come on, man. Come oooooon.

Do you think they would score more or less playing against the SEL's top players? Obviously less. The fact that MPS plays 22 minutes a game against high calibre players and still produces offensively, are you kidding me? That's downright ridiculous for a kid his age. Ray Bourque knew this kid was a hockey player. He wouldn't have called him a first line player if he didn't think he could play.

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Old
01-26-2010, 03:10 PM
  #114
Andre Benoit Bawls
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Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
You adressed the petry thing yourself. Petry is a dominant defenseman this season. He had a tough year last year on a bad team and is now dominating on a better team.

As for Ottawas swedes getting less minutes. Don't you think theres a reason that Petterrsson and Silfverberg are getting 7 minutes(15) and 11 minutes(11) less per game than MPS? I doesn't enter into your thought process that it's because the guy is a better player than those two, more nhl ready both mentally and physically and a bigger threat to score? Come on, man. Come oooooon.

Do you think they would score more or less playing against the SEL's top players? Obviously less. The fact that MPS plays 22 minutes a game against high calibre players and still produces offensively, are you kidding me? That's downright ridiculous for a kid his age. Ray Bourque knew this kid was a hockey player. He wouldn't have called him a first line player if he didn't think he could play.
Perhaps it is due to the fact that Petersson is on the best team in the league, Silvferberg is on the 7th best (and is obviously not as good as MPS or Petersson), while MPS is on the 11th best (aka 2nd worst).Come one man. Come oooooooooooooooooooo...ooooooo...oooon.

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Old
01-26-2010, 03:11 PM
  #115
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Not that Im disagreeing with your post. But the Jeff Glass example is overused and inaccurate, he was never a big time prospect. He was in tough to become an NHL starter as he was drafted in the 3rd round. He played behind the best WJC in history and he was considered the only part of the team that may keep it from winning gold.

Spezza's probably a better example (and Im sure theres better examples)

4 assists in 7 games in his last (and 3rd) WJC. It was a while ago, and you could argue he may have still played well, but knowing Spezza if he wasnt producing numbers he probably wasnt doing much. Far from the expectations youd have for one of the few kids that made it at 16 and drafted 2nd overall. He ended up translating into the NHL basically as expected. The WJC was no indicator of his career or his future paycheck.

I'm just trying to refute the argument that the World Junior Championships makes or breaks a person's entire career. Plenty of stars never had the opportunity to play for Team Canada and there are many that made the team but never amounted to much.

At the end of the day they're all excellent prospects in my opinion, but Ottawa has the players they have for a reason and likewise with Edmonton.

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Old
01-26-2010, 03:18 PM
  #116
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Yeah, back on topic, and beyond the stupid, pointless pissing match, I see no reason for either GM to make the original deal. I think they both like what they got and will keep them.

Let the pissing match resume! (This hasn't been closed yet!? )

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01-26-2010, 03:45 PM
  #117
Andre Benoit Bawls
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Yeah, back on topic, and beyond the stupid, pointless pissing match, I see no reason for either GM to make the original deal. I think they both like what they got and will keep them.

Let the pissing match resume! (This hasn't been closed yet!? )
I'm surprised too.

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Old
01-26-2010, 04:27 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Mach 9 View Post
I've already got one pointless infraction from this thread. I'm ready for more!

Petersson Shot > MPS shot
MPS Playmaking > Petersson playmaking
http://tv.hockeyligan.se/main.aspx?c...id=24985527297 #91 in red, Pajaarvi scores both goals for the win.

The myth of MPS not being able to shoot or finish isn't real. This kid has a snipe of a shot. MPS > Petersson in every way.

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01-26-2010, 04:32 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Gagster View Post
http://tv.hockeyligan.se/main.aspx?c...id=24985527297 #91 in red, Pajaarvi scores both goals for the win.

The myth of MPS not being able to shoot or finish isn't real. This kid has a snipe of a shot. MPS > Petersson in every way.
I heard MPS is also more hung and has whiter teeth.

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01-26-2010, 05:30 PM
  #120
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Petersson is 5'9 and 169 lbs while MPS is 6'2, 208 lbs. Paajarvi's game will translate better in the NHL while Petersson would be killed by 6'3 d-men. Petersson is also a year older than MPS. Don't compare the two, Petersson isn't even close to being as good as MPS.
Petersson is 5'10 and 176 lbs now. He is still 19 y/o.

I didn't say Petersson was better, i said he almost has similar stats to MPS playing on a 4th line... Be happy, MPS scored 2 goals today

PS : Do you realize how many 5'10 (or smaller) guys thrive in the NHL? S.Koivu, S.Kozlov, T.White, Recchi, M.Savard, D.Roy, Samsonov, R.Whitney, Versteeg, PM Bouchard, Plekanec, Cammalleri, Gionta, Sullivan, Drury, Avery, Briere, Kariya, A.McDonald, TJ Oshie, St-Louis, P.Kane, J.Blake, I.White, Enstrom, Timonen, Visnovsky, Rafalski, Liles... and that's just the best of the bunch

There is also a TON of 5'11 players. A 19 y/o can still grow an inch or two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
You adressed the petry thing yourself. Petry is a dominant defenseman this season. He had a tough year last year on a bad team and is now dominating on a better team.
I did? I said he was struggling big time last year. Now he is finally looking good 4 years after being drafted.

Quote:
As for Ottawas swedes getting less minutes. Don't you think theres a reason that Petterrsson and Silfverberg are getting 7 minutes(15) and 11 minutes(11) less per game than MPS? I doesn't enter into your thought process that it's because the guy is a better player than those two, more nhl ready both mentally and physically and a bigger threat to score? Come on, man. Come oooooon.
You really need an answer for that? Maybe it has something to do with the team they play for? But it's ok i won't throw you under the bus by saying some "come on man" things. I'll just inform you that the SEL is a pro league and most young guys start their career on bottom lines, even the Zetterberg types, unless the team they play for has no depht up front. MPS would play on the 4th line as well if he was with HV71... Sorry to break up your world.

Quote:
Do you think they would score more or less playing against the SEL's top players? Obviously less. The fact that MPS plays 22 minutes a game against high calibre players and still produces offensively, are you kidding me? That's downright ridiculous for a kid his age. Ray Bourque knew this kid was a hockey player. He wouldn't have called him a first line player if he didn't think he could play.
Again, i didn't say ANYTHING negative on MPS (who i wanted Ottawa to draft with the Oilers pick acquired in a package for Heatley. I was personally at the draft and was hoping for that, I wanted both Cowen and MPS. But heatley would have waived it anyway)

I was just comparing their stats in the sense that Petersson could be the real thing as well. And according to some recent threads, Oilers fans seem to put a lot of weight on the WJC. Did you catch the Sweden games? Did you see Petersson goals and domination? Did you know he scored more goals than MPS and as much as Eberle?

Note : NO INTENTION of a pissing match, just a hockey discussion. Just keep thing sunder control and it's fine, i don't see the problem. This is an adult forum after all?

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Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
Michalek is a first line player. Fisher has shown that he cannot be effective unless there is another scoring line other than his to deflect some of the attention from the primary checking forward line and defence pairing on the other team. I don't think that you can say that any of our prospects project to be first liners at the moment. I think Regin and Foligno can be solid 2nd liners, but certainly I do not think they will score enough to deflect enough attention away from Fisher's line if he is on the primary scoring line. Future draft picks : your guess is as good as mine. I don't want to get back to a situation (especially after Kovy and Alfie are gone) where we have one scoring line, and if that line is shut down, our other lines can't score enough to win games when the first line is going. i.e. back to the days of the CASH line. It may come down to the UFA market, since after next year, we have Cheechoo and Kovy off the books, and that is 8 mill of cap space right there. Hopefully, retain Cheech at no more than 1 mill per, a couple of our young guys will play 3rd/4th line roles on ELC contracts, and maybe pick up a couple of 4 million dollar UFAs, or one superstar (preferably a couple of 4 million dollar guys).
I understand your questionning but don't worry, BM will still find more gems before he retires (hopefully not too quickly). The situation is not as alarming as some Sens fans seem to think :

1st line players :

For multiple years : Spezza, Michalek
For 1-3 more years : Alfredsson, Kovalev
Total = 4 (so one of them can play on the 2nd line for now)

2nd line players :

For multiple years : Fisher and Regin + Foligno not too far off
Potential : Petersson, Silfverberg, Grant, Caporusso... and to a lesser extent Daugavins, Z.Smith and Hoffman

So, i don't think we have to worry about having a good 2nd line in the future. Michalek and Spezza are already good and not even in their prime. All we need to do is find a future 1st line RW. We do have a bit of time for that though, or maybe the solution will come from internally (Petersson, Regin, future draft pick). Worse case scenario : we sign a UFA.

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01-26-2010, 05:35 PM
  #121
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I heard MPS is also more hung and has whiter teeth.
???


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01-26-2010, 05:47 PM
  #122
Andre Benoit Bawls
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???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagster
http://tv.hockeyligan.se/main.aspx?c...id=24985527297 #91 in red, Pajaarvi scores both goals for the win.

The myth of MPS not being able to shoot or finish isn't real. This kid has a snipe of a shot. MPS > Petersson in every way.
It was a joke.

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01-26-2010, 05:58 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Yelnats Puc View Post
Of course he is.

I have to say, if Edmonton isn't a dynasty within the next couple of years, it will be an epic fail by management.

Really, though, we might as well give the Oilers the Cup right now, because it's obvious no one will stand a chance in the coming years.

Wait a minute, weren't Gagner, Cogliano, and Nilsson already supposed to lead you guys to the Stanley Cup? What gives?
We would have the cup, that is, if all the superstars weren't on Ottawa. Not to mention all the blue chip prospects.

Sure, the Oilers should trade a guy said to be the best Canadian player anyone has seen in the world juniors for a guy who wasn't even allowed to play because he was a defensive liability. Sounds great to me. Where do I sign up? Then maybe we can be just like the Ottawa Senators.

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01-26-2010, 06:00 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
I heard MPS is also more hung and has whiter teeth.
Svennsons got a big ol' dick.

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01-26-2010, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
We would have the cup, that is, if all the superstars weren't on Ottawa. Not to mention all the blue chip prospects.

Sure, the Oilers should trade a guy said to be the best Canadian player anyone has seen in the world juniors for a guy who wasn't even allowed to play because he was a defensive liability. Sounds great to me. Where do I sign up? Then maybe we can be just like the Ottawa Senators.
Be like the Ottawa Senators? You mean a team that was an elite team for many years, went to the SCF just 3 seasons ago, has a player that is the longest serving captain in the NHL, is still loved by the majority of their former players, and has missed the playoffs only ONCE in the last 12 years?

For your sake, I hope you can...

P.S. How many years has it been again since the Oil made an appearance in a playoff game? Hmm...

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