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TSN's "Trade deadline playbook: Western Conference"

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Old
01-26-2010, 02:18 PM
  #1
19sharks19
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TSN's "Trade deadline playbook: Western Conference"

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=307638

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01-26-2010, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSN
The Plan: Cruising through the regular season, the Sharks have a championship run in them, but could still augment their roster in order to finally get over the hump, perhaps looking for some blueline help or a veteran forward that can play both ends of the rink and give the second line a boost when it needs a shake-up -- the kind of tweaking that Cup contenders make, rather than dramatic and desperate roster changes.
Um, Manny Malhotra ring a bell?

These things are always far to general to be of any help or interest. Any idiot can tell you that the Sharks need another defenseman at the deadline, or that the Oilers won't be selling the farm for big name rental.

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01-26-2010, 02:39 PM
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polmaniac932
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They should have added at the end of the Sharks tidbit: "Oops, wait, we forgot, they already have Manny Malhotra."

The only thing this team needs is a little more stability on defense. Our forwards are just fine.

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01-26-2010, 03:10 PM
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Are you guys suggesting Maholtra is going to keep up his pace and continue to be a strong presence on the 2nd line? He's never been a 2nd line player. If he does, thank god, otherwise he'll be back on the 3rd/4th line later in the season.

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01-26-2010, 03:18 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flicktron View Post
Are you guys suggesting Maholtra is going to keep up his pace and continue to be a strong presence on the 2nd line? He's never been a 2nd line player. If he does, thank god, otherwise he'll be back on the 3rd/4th line later in the season.
The thing is Manny it turns out is almost the same player as Milan Michalek was in that position. Speed and defensive awareness. Now he's not as fast as Milan, but he makes up for it by being far more tenacious, physical, and he's the best face-off man in the business (even when he loses a face-off, Pavelski is 5th best league wide).

Michalek was never much of a goal scorer either, so yes, I am perfectly happy with Manny in that role. He has fantastic chemistry with his line mates and worst case even if he isn't scoring he's causing trouble and providing defense.

Until I typed this out I was never so pleased with the Heatley trade. We dumped a terrible contract in Cheechoo, and traded a 4.1m player for a .7m dollar player who really isn't a downgrade.

Now if only we kept Ehrhoff I'd actually think pretty highly of DW.

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01-26-2010, 03:24 PM
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one2gamble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flicktron View Post
Are you guys suggesting Maholtra is going to keep up his pace and continue to be a strong presence on the 2nd line? He's never been a 2nd line player. If he does, thank god, otherwise he'll be back on the 3rd/4th line later in the season.
Its mannys speed that is creating opportunities for the other two on the line. It has nothing to do with his skill set.

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01-26-2010, 03:35 PM
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I do love Manny and think he's a swing 2nd/3rd liner... but we're in trouble if we have to rely on him on the 2nd line from here on out. I'd prefer seeing Clowe and Manny switch around as needed... And I don't think Manny is a Milan Michalek... no matter how much people say that Milan never became a super-elite winger, he is still a top class talent in this league.

but, I don't think we need a 2nd liner as stated by TSN. Obviously we need a 3-5 D man to suck up minutes.

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01-26-2010, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one2gamble View Post
Its mannys speed that is creating opportunities for the other two on the line. It has nothing to do with his skill set.
Let's not forget his fantastic faceoff skills. Winning so many draws in the opposing end as he does, gives us the offensive pressure right away shift after shift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Until I typed this out I was never so pleased with the Heatley trade. We dumped a terrible contract in Cheechoo, and traded a 4.1m player for a .7m dollar player who really isn't a downgrade.

Now if only we kept Ehrhoff I'd actually think pretty highly of DW.
On the Heater trade, I totally agree. He was an awesome pick up and, we could see how Patty is benefitting from it (as well as benefitting via much less pressure without the "C"). As teams are focusing first on Joe (which at times is pretty much two guys on him), it frees up either Patty or Heater much more often and we can see how it is benefitting them both. But, still sorry to have seen Milan as the trade bait to get Heater. D.W., before offloading the debacle to Vancouver could have found another means and we could have still had Milan on this team. Imagine the offensive threat this team would have been with Milan still here?? We are doing fantastic as it is already but man, just imagine.

On Ehrhoff, not to echo it again but, yes it would have been great to have saved the money via Blake and Huskins and left some of it towards Ehrhoff. Plus, we would have had a few extra dollars.

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Old
01-26-2010, 04:47 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coooldude View Post
I do love Manny and think he's a swing 2nd/3rd liner... but we're in trouble if we have to rely on him on the 2nd line from here on out. I'd prefer seeing Clowe and Manny switch around as needed... And I don't think Manny is a Milan Michalek... no matter how much people say that Milan never became a super-elite winger, he is still a top class talent in this league.

but, I don't think we need a 2nd liner as stated by TSN. Obviously we need a 3-5 D man to suck up minutes.
Can I ask why? Since he came back from injury and was placed on that line they are playing better than they have in months, if not all season. What part of his game so far has made you uncomfortable in this role?

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Old
01-26-2010, 05:07 PM
  #10
polmaniac932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
The thing is Manny it turns out is almost the same player as Milan Michalek was in that position. Speed and defensive awareness. Now he's not as fast as Milan, but he makes up for it by being far more tenacious, physical, and he's the best face-off man in the business (even when he loses a face-off, Pavelski is 5th best league wide).

Michalek was never much of a goal scorer either, so yes, I am perfectly happy with Manny in that role. He has fantastic chemistry with his line mates and worst case even if he isn't scoring he's causing trouble and providing defense.

Until I typed this out I was never so pleased with the Heatley trade. We dumped a terrible contract in Cheechoo, and traded a 4.1m player for a .7m dollar player who really isn't a downgrade.

Now if only we kept Ehrhoff I'd actually think pretty highly of DW.
Manny is great and all, but Michalek has a set of offensive skills that make him an immediate upgrade over Malhotra in that regard. I know he would be inconsistent, but Michalek is a definite capable 30 G 60 pt. scorer year in and year out, whereas Malhotra simply isn't as dangerous.

Plus, to the above poster, I never claimed I felt Malhotra could carry the 2nd line for an extended period of time, but he's definitely a guy you can plug in and expect something out of if you need a shakeup.

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01-26-2010, 05:15 PM
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Mr Irrelevant
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I don't think the article is that off the mark. I'm not that comfortable with our scoring balance right now, but it is what it is as we don't have the cap room to bring in anyone with some scoring touch. Any we can create will be needed on the blueline. Manny will have to play that role.

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Old
01-26-2010, 05:16 PM
  #12
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I don't really understand the Manny/Michalek comparison either.

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Old
01-26-2010, 05:45 PM
  #13
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yep, you can't compare michalek to malhotra...manny is a role player who's got the basic work ethic and average skills to shake a line up when need be. But you wouldn't trade marleau just because ferriero can score a few goals next to thornton in a "shakeup" scenario.

However, I do feel comfortable with clowe vs michalek. Speed is lost along with some goals but grit and size make up for it. If manny or seto do falter I'm fine with clowe on the 2nd line. Also don't count out mcginn as a shakeup forward if that line struggles again.

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Old
01-26-2010, 05:57 PM
  #14
hockeyball
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polmaniac932 View Post
Manny is great and all, but Michalek has a set of offensive skills that make him an immediate upgrade over Malhotra in that regard. I know he would be inconsistent, but Michalek is a definite capable 30 G 60 pt. scorer year in and year out, whereas Malhotra simply isn't as dangerous.

Plus, to the above poster, I never claimed I felt Malhotra could carry the 2nd line for an extended period of time, but he's definitely a guy you can plug in and expect something out of if you need a shakeup.
09/10 - 46GP 17G 6A 23P (on pace for 42p)
08/09 - 77GP 23G 34A 57P
07/08 - 79GP 24G 31A 55P
06/07 - 78GP 26G 40A 66P
05/06 - 81GP 17G 18A 35P

Michalek is not a 30g 60p player. He is capable of it, but he has never once scored 30g. He is fairly consistent 55p player and 25g scorer. He has yet to live upto his potential, and he certainly isn't going to do it this season. Remember he's playing on the top line this season and is projected to score 42p.

in 39 playoff games he has a grand total of 10g 6a for 16p. That is .41ppg. Dismal.

I like Michalek too, but he is a career underachiever who really exemplified the lack of heart this team is accused of. Potential is not reality.

No Manny definitely does not have his stats. However I think Milan's biggest benefit was the speed he provided allowing his line-mates to succeed. Malhotra provides that same 'distraction'. No he won't put up quite as many points but he's certainly more bang for the buck in my book.

Also I think Malhotra has better linemates then he has in the past, and maybe his numbers will improve accordingly.He's on pace for about 38p this season, but he has 7 points in 6 games since he's been back and on the 2nd line. Small sample size of course.

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Old
01-26-2010, 07:09 PM
  #15
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I have been saying for a while that Manny has always looked good on the 2nd line and other team's fans would respond"well that just proves they're a one line team" When he is on that line the Sharks win, when Demers is playing the Sharks win, when he's out or Manny is moved down to the 4th or out, the Sharks lose, I havent looked at the statistics but I know this is true.
I have also said for years Milan will never score 30 goals, and even when he was on pace to score 40 early on I still stood by it.We completley robbed the Sens, but if they had Heater they would be out of the playoffs so I dont think they should really be complaining. Even with losing Error which is becoming a bigger punch in the gut as Vlasic gets worse,its still worth it because we wouldnt have Heater,Manny,Nichol,Demers and who knows maybe Ortmeyer.
I think the Sharks need to move Vlasic and Mitchell for a solid TWO way dman, a young lefty thats physical with a booming shot that should compliment Demers for years to come *cough* Whitney *cough*Pitkanen
edit: Manny has 2 less points in one more game playing the majority with guys that have a fraction of the talent of Alfredson, Spezza or even Fisher


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Old
01-26-2010, 07:57 PM
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Clowe doesn't function well with Pavs and Seto at all. When he's on the second line he doesn't play like a power forward. He plays like Joe, and he's not that good. Malhotra makes way more sense for line 2.a and Clowe is a very good fit with Ortmeyer and Nichol on line 2.b.

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Old
01-26-2010, 08:09 PM
  #17
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You know authors of this kind of material are media hockey generalists - not sure how really tuned into the Sharks they are with regard to wants and needs. I think allot of it as selling hits/print/etc. I just can't pay much attention to their content
overall. I think we get into more depth on the Sharks in these here boards...

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Old
01-26-2010, 08:45 PM
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Manny on the 2nd line is a short term solution. When the playoffs start, the top six will be the top six we all know and love. I'd like to see them try a different setup at some point between now and the end of the season just to see how it works.

Clowe-Thornton-Setoguchi
Marleau-Pavelski-Heatley

I think Clowe-Pavs-Seto won't work in the playoffs so the Sharks should look to split up the big three until the last ten minutes of a game they're not winning. I think Clowe can work with Thornton as long as there's a speed guy like Setoguchi or Marleau on the wing for the initial forecheck.

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Old
01-26-2010, 09:02 PM
  #19
polmaniac932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
09/10 - 46GP 17G 6A 23P (on pace for 42p)
08/09 - 77GP 23G 34A 57P
07/08 - 79GP 24G 31A 55P
06/07 - 78GP 26G 40A 66P
05/06 - 81GP 17G 18A 35P

Michalek is not a 30g 60p player. He is capable of it, but he has never once scored 30g. He is fairly consistent 55p player and 25g scorer. He has yet to live upto his potential, and he certainly isn't going to do it this season. Remember he's playing on the top line this season and is projected to score 42p.

in 39 playoff games he has a grand total of 10g 6a for 16p. That is .41ppg. Dismal.

I like Michalek too, but he is a career underachiever who really exemplified the lack of heart this team is accused of. Potential is not reality.

No Manny definitely does not have his stats. However I think Milan's biggest benefit was the speed he provided allowing his line-mates to succeed. Malhotra provides that same 'distraction'. No he won't put up quite as many points but he's certainly more bang for the buck in my book.

Also I think Malhotra has better linemates then he has in the past, and maybe his numbers will improve accordingly.He's on pace for about 38p this season, but he has 7 points in 6 games since he's been back and on the 2nd line. Small sample size of course.
I understand what you're saying, but there's a reason I added the word "capable" when describing Michalek's scoring potential. I know he's never had a 30G 30A season, but he's come damn close several times, and I still think he's capable of putting up those kinds of numbers year in and year out once he hits his prime, which hopefully, would be soon.

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Old
01-26-2010, 09:17 PM
  #20
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@ PF: I like the lines that you suggest and have been a big advocate of them for a while, but we have yet to see it.

And if we were to do it in the postseason, I'd put the big line beck together at the beginning of the third period if we're down, 10 minutes just seems like to little of a time to recalibrate.

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01-26-2010, 10:02 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Manny on the 2nd line is a short term solution. When the playoffs start, the top six will be the top six we all know and love. I'd like to see them try a different setup at some point between now and the end of the season just to see how it works.

Clowe-Thornton-Setoguchi
Marleau-Pavelski-Heatley

I think Clowe-Pavs-Seto won't work in the playoffs so the Sharks should look to split up the big three until the last ten minutes of a game they're not winning. I think Clowe can work with Thornton as long as there's a speed guy like Setoguchi or Marleau on the wing for the initial forecheck.
Again, just curious as to why Manny is a short term solution? Because of how he did in Columbus? I'm asking because, again, since he came back from injury, the 2nd AND 3rd lines are playing better than they have the entire season. So why do any of you have said so think it will not continue? (I'm not aiming this at just you PF, but at all the folks who've said Manny can't/won't/shouldn't stay on the 2nd line).

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01-27-2010, 01:07 AM
  #22
Flicktron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazedZooChimp View Post
Again, just curious as to why Manny is a short term solution? Because of how he did in Columbus? I'm asking because, again, since he came back from injury, the 2nd AND 3rd lines are playing better than they have the entire season. So why do any of you have said so think it will not continue? (I'm not aiming this at just you PF, but at all the folks who've said Manny can't/won't/shouldn't stay on the 2nd line).
I'm not disagreeing that the 2nd and 3rd lines are playing better, but I'm commenting on the fact that Maholtra has never been a season-long 2nd line player in his career. Like I said, if something changed in his habits, and work-out routine, then so be it, but speed to create chances only goes so far. Look how fast Marleau is, he creates chances with speed and skill. You may as well throw Mitchell out there, if he can get his legs going again.

Speed can be a horrible thing because your hands don't match your speed. Just like Pascal Dupuis, Konstantin Koltsov, and Michalek. Michalek's a good player, but he never matched those two up.

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01-27-2010, 01:35 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazedZooChimp View Post
Again, just curious as to why Manny is a short term solution? Because of how he did in Columbus? I'm asking because, again, since he came back from injury, the 2nd AND 3rd lines are playing better than they have the entire season. So why do any of you have said so think it will not continue? (I'm not aiming this at just you PF, but at all the folks who've said Manny can't/won't/shouldn't stay on the 2nd line).
Because Manny doesn't have the offensive creativity and consistency to maintain being a 2nd liner. He's a classic tweener. He's good for spurts of time there but is not a permanent solution. He's on pace to tie his career goal scoring season. It's not an accident that he's yet to be an offensive producer at this level. Can he be a late bloomer? Sure but the chances of this stretch of time being the norm for an entire season is very slim.

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01-27-2010, 02:11 AM
  #24
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Michalek is highly overrated. Always was here and still is. He seems to be one of those players who is always living on potential rather than production.

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01-27-2010, 12:43 PM
  #25
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I think the Sharks need to move Vlasic and Mitchell for a solid TWO way dman, a young lefty thats physical with a booming shot that should compliment Demers for years to come
Not sure if we truly want to sacrifice Vlasic as of yet and with Mitchell, man, he's going to be really hard to move with his current form and his salary.

Quote:
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I think Clowe-Pavs-Seto won't work in the playoffs so the Sharks should look to split up the big three until the last ten minutes of a game they're not winning. I think Clowe can work with Thornton as long as there's a speed guy like Setoguchi or Marleau on the wing for the initial forecheck.
Interesting idea but, I say if T.M. were to experiment with this type of idea, he put the big three together for at minimum the whole third period. Would definately throw a huge twist into our opponents pre game preps for us as, they won't be too sure what we're throwing at them. And, if we find ourselves 2 + goals down early or even in the 2nd, we simply put them together right away. Truly interesting.

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