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KHL puts a dent in the NHL, AHL

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01-27-2010, 01:39 PM
  #1
Beacon
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KHL puts a dent in the NHL, AHL

I must say, the KHL put a real dent in the NHL, especially among the lower end players.

And that goes quadruple for the AHL. It used to be the second-best league in the world. It's clearly not anymore. Not only is the KHL significantly better than the AHL, but being drained of talent also made it no better than several other European leagues.

In the 90s, there was enough talent for both the AHL and the IHL to be the best leagues in the world after the NHL. Right now, the AHL - which should've been stronger after incorporating all the IHL talent - is weaker than either the AHL or the IHL was in the 90s.

That's part of the reason I bet even players like David Kveton aren't coming over. There's no honor anymore to playing in the AHL. It's not a step up from the Czech league.

And for Russians like Valentenko, there's truly no reason to be in North America. What's their goal? To trade being a star in their homeland for a chance to be a third pairing defenseman in the NHL after years of riding the bus in the third-rate AHL?

The NHL will need to adjust to a new system where the minors won't be the dominant place for player development.

I see a lot more players going to the KHL in the coming years, especially from the AHL, and that includes Americans and Canadians.

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01-27-2010, 02:02 PM
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The KHL has some very good high-end talent, but after that, there's quite a drop off. I would argue that the skill level in the AHL is more consistent, top to bottom.

The style of play is also drastically different. A guy like Marcel Hossa was a serviceable defensive forward in the NHL, but he's a superstar scorer in the KHL. Same goes for Pat Thoresen, Mats Weinhandl, Branko Radivojevic, etc.

As for how much of a dent it's putting in the AHL and NHL, I don't think it's that great.

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01-27-2010, 02:12 PM
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The KHL is basically a few superstars, and then a bunch of 3rd rate players who didn't cut it in the NHL.

But yeah, if you could be a low quality NHL player, it's more appealing to be a high quality KHL player.

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01-27-2010, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by f2d View Post
The KHL is basically a few superstars, and then a bunch of 3rd rate players who didn't cut it in the NHL.

But yeah, if you could be a low quality NHL player, it's more appealing to be a high quality KHL player.
I see the KHL as the AHL with a bunch of stars and superstars. Are there players who are borderline AHL/ECHL there? Yes. But there are also guys like Jagr and Zherdev there, which you simply would not see in the AHL.

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01-27-2010, 02:31 PM
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Really?

Haven't noticed.

the only three guys that I could think of that left for the KHL that could have any real impact here is Radulov, Jagr and to a lesser extent Zherdev.

Otherwise I haven't noticed the difference

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01-27-2010, 02:40 PM
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Was the AHL really considered the 2nd best league in the world? I always viewed it as a stomping ground for younger kids (who are better off learning the NA game here as opposed to overseas) and older guys who couldn't cut it in another professional league.

Sure there are a few more starts going to the KHL, but the KHL, SEL, or any other EU league weren't as competitive if not better than the AHL before?

I'm not necessarily disaggreing with you, that's just how I always viewed the AHL.

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01-27-2010, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
I see the KHL as the AHL with a bunch of stars and superstars. Are there players who are borderline AHL/ECHL there? Yes. But there are also guys like Jagr and Zherdev there, which you simply would not see in the AHL.
A gross mis-representation

I know of one aging superstar, and 3 other star type players.

Outside of that alot of third liners that could not earn a job here in the NHL.

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01-27-2010, 02:51 PM
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That's because every AHL team has an NHL affiliate, and no NHL team is gonna keep a superstar in the AHL.

The AHL is basically a farm system...

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01-27-2010, 02:59 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i3aj...eature=related

Some highlight goals from KHL this season, featuring our pal Brendl.

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01-27-2010, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
I see the KHL as the AHL with a bunch of stars and superstars. Are there players who are borderline AHL/ECHL there? Yes. But there are also guys like Jagr and Zherdev there, which you simply would not see in the AHL.
There aren't really any superstars in the KHL. Jaromir Jagr would be the closest and he's 38. You have once-great NHL players like Alexei Yashin and Sergei Zubov, and then guys like Radulov and Zherdev, and then players like Marcel Hossa, Radivojevic, Jiri Hudler, Alex Morozov, Petr Cajanek, etc... The middle group being very good NHL players, the latter group being solid NHLers. Beyond that, there's not much. A lot of the guys in the KHL wouldn't make the AHL right now. There's some true garbage there.

Guys like Jagr and Zherdev, of course you wouldn't see them in the AHL. It's a developmental league. Which is why they went straight to the NHL after being drafted. My point being they wouldn't be in the AHL even if the KHL weren't around. Even then though, you still get a Bobby Ryan hanging around the AHL.

I just don't think it's much of a threat. I think the talent in the KHL is vastly overstated. Especially considering they play hardly any defense over there...you get guys that look great but just couldn't cut it in NA.

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01-27-2010, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by f2d View Post
That's because every AHL team has an NHL affiliate, and no NHL team is gonna keep a superstar in the AHL.

The AHL is basically a farm system...
I sure would like to keep Redden in the AHL. But he ain't no supastar.

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01-27-2010, 03:30 PM
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plus, the average attendance is what....3,000 people per team? thats horrendous. how can they afford to give Kovalchuk 10 million a season tax free when they can't be grossing more than 2 million in tickets and concessions year.

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01-27-2010, 03:32 PM
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KHL is a threat. Only short sided people would deny that. Biggest problem is they treat players with respect and pay them well. Any similarity with your own life? Would you want to work in better working environment even though the challenges is somewhat less? I bet many, many would. The hockey players are no different. Especially when is is clear the you can sign with NHL without AHL waste of time later.

Eventually NHL will rid of disciplinarians like Terrien or Tortorella. That would be the first step to improve the working conditions in order to retain the players here.

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01-27-2010, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
plus, the average attendance is what....3,000 people per team? thats horrendous. how can they afford to give Kovalchuk 10 million a season tax free when they can't be grossing more than 2 million in tickets and concessions year.
money laundring?

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01-27-2010, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
KHL is a threat. Only short sided people would deny that. Biggest problem is they treat players with respect and pay them well. Any similarity with your own life? Would you want to work in better working environment even though the challenges is somewhat less? I bet many, many would. The hockey players are no different. Especially when is is clear the you can sign with NHL without AHL waste of time later.

Eventually NHL will rid of disciplinarians like Terrien or Tortorella. That would be the first step to improve the working conditions in order to retain the players here.
The treat players with respect and pay them well? They had a death on the bench of one of the teams because they were too cheap to get a defibrillator, and there were rumors about certain players simply not getting paid because they didnt perform (the non superstar variety, most of the better players seem to get all their money up front).

I'm sorry, but any league where a player can die because of a lack of proper medical equipment there is not a league where I would use the term "respect"

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01-27-2010, 03:46 PM
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I still think that by going to the KHL a player is giving up the potential to reach the highest level of success in hockey, which would be winning an NHL championship. Those who want to be the best among the best will stay in the NHL for now.

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01-27-2010, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
The treat players with respect and pay them well? They had a death on the bench of one of the teams because they were too cheap to get a defibrillator, and there were rumors about certain players simply not getting paid because they didnt perform (the non superstar variety, most of the better players seem to get all their money up front).

I'm sorry, but any league where a player can die because of a lack of proper medical equipment there is not a league where I would use the term "respect"
No one knows why Cherry died. The star actress died after bumping her head on a downhill trail. It is beyond once control. Do they have de-defibrillators in Binghamton?

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01-27-2010, 03:50 PM
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I still think that by going to the KHL a player is giving up the potential to reach the highest level of success in hockey, which would be winning an NHL championship. Those who want to be the best among the best will stay in the NHL for now.
theres that, theres also playing in Russia, as an american or a canadian, can't be ideal...only north americans who would go to the KHL are scrubs who wont make it here, which means nothing to the overall depth of the NHL/AHL. Europeans have several options in Europe besides the KHL...theres the SEL, which has been one of hte best leagues for a long, long time, and hasn't effected the NHL all that much....I dont expect the KHL to be much different than the RSL was in respect to the NHL....Youll have some teams jump the bandwagon, but i think in the end, it will lose its luster once the teams stop throwing money away. I find it impossible to believe that a team can have a 25-40 million dollar payroll, and turn a profit....even if they sell 5,000 tickets a game, and sell a ton of advertising...i'd bet they'd lose 10+ million bucks a season.

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01-27-2010, 03:50 PM
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Eventually NHL will rid of disciplinarians like Terrien or Tortorella. That would be the first step to improve the working conditions in order to retain the players here.
When the bulk of great players leave the league because they don't want to get their little feelings hurt by "disciplinarian" coaches while they make ludicrous amounts of money and live better than nearly everyone else on the planet I'll stop watching hockey. Those coaches are only tough on players that underperform. If you play well, life and hockey will be easy for you. Thats called inciting your players to perform to their potential. If the bulk of players leave for more money, good riddance. I'll find something to watch that's still ruled by pride rather than money.

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01-27-2010, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
KHL is a threat. Only short sided people would deny that. Biggest problem is they treat players with respect and pay them well. Any similarity with your own life? Would you want to work in better working environment even though the challenges is somewhat less? I bet many, many would. The hockey players are no different. Especially when is is clear the you can sign with NHL without AHL waste of time later.

Eventually NHL will rid of disciplinarians like Terrien or Tortorella. That would be the first step to improve the working conditions in order to retain the players here.
Maybe the rich clubs that can afford to pay...certainly not the ones that didn't pay their players because they couldn't afford it.

Anyway, let's see the KHL stay afloat for a few years. Let's see them get some quality players that don't fall into one of three categories: 1) Washed up NHLers; 2) Fringe NHLers; 3) Disgruntled NHLers.

The KHL bears watching, but I haven't seen anything from it yet that leads me to believe it's any type of credible threat. And as it stands, 66% of NHLers are North American...and unless they're absolute fringe players, North Americans aren't going to flock to Russia to play hockey.

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01-27-2010, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
No one knows why Cherry died. The star actress died after bumping her head on a downhill trail. It is beyond once control. Do they have de-defibrillators in Binghamton?
they have defibrillators at all of my local area rinks...one of which is one of the most horrible rinks ive ever seen. my guess is an AHL team will have all the proper medical equipment.

Cherry died because of a heart condition...however it was caused, we know his heart is where the problem was....a defib more than likely would have saved his life.

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01-27-2010, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
KHL is a threat. Only short sided people would deny that. Biggest problem is they treat players with respect and pay them well. Any similarity with your own life? Would you want to work in better working environment even though the challenges is somewhat less? I bet many, many would. The hockey players are no different. Especially when is is clear the you can sign with NHL without AHL waste of time later.

Eventually NHL will rid of disciplinarians like Terrien or Tortorella. That would be the first step to improve the working conditions in order to retain the players here.
Winning the KHL trophy is going to be equivalent to winning Olympic gold, right?

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01-27-2010, 03:57 PM
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the only three guys that I could think of that left for the KHL that could have any real impact here is Radulov, Jagr and to a lesser extent Zherdev.
It's less about the guys on the backsides of their career who left, more about the talented young players that may never come.

It's a little early to be writing the NHL off as a non-threat. It could take decade for a breakaway series to really build a following, a cache of it's own stars and put a KHL Championship on the map as an actual hockey accomplishment. The NHL shouldn't be awaiting around just to see if they can do it, I'll tell you that.

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