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Mathias Brunet says it all on young goalies

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Old
01-28-2010, 10:59 AM
  #1
alexstream
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Mathias Brunet says it all on young goalies

For unilingual Anglos :
-The conclusion is that there is no dominant goalie under 27 y.o.
-Price, Mason, Pavelec are the only 3 under 22. Price having the best stats.
-Price, despite the critics, sport a respectable career total : 2.71, .913 &
58-44-17

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...arey-price.php


That said,
I say we end the debate. We keep both, but we give time to Carey to develop, playing him the 2nd game in 2 nights, or against "bottom" feeders once Halak has played 4-5 in a row.
i.e. We sign Halak as a starter for 2-3M
We sign Price as a backup for 1-2M

and in 2-3 years, we are in a position to better judge and we can trade one of the two.

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Old
01-28-2010, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexstream View Post
For unilingual Anglos :
-The conclusion is that there is no dominant goalie under 27 y.o.
-Price, Mason, Pavelec are the only 3 under 22. Price having the best stats.
-Price, despite the critics, sport a respectable career total : 2.71, .913 &
58-44-17

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...arey-price.php


That said,
I say we end the debate. We keep both, but we give time to Carey to develop, playing him the 2nd game in 2 nights, or against "bottom" feeders once Halak has played 4-5 in a row.
i.e. We sign Halak as a starter for 2-3M
We sign Price as a backup for 1-2M

and in 2-3 years, we are in a position to better judge and we can trade one of the two.
Great article, everyone should take a chill pill with Price. Play Halak for most of the way through this season, and then when Price gets hot at the beginning of next season how about we don't sit him

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Old
01-28-2010, 11:28 AM
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Not sure Price/his agent will accept a backup spot here when he could be a sure #1 elsewhere.

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Old
01-28-2010, 11:30 AM
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Please, stop saying "goaler."
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Old
01-28-2010, 11:30 AM
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Bravo to Mathias Brunet with another great article
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01-28-2010, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Sports1131 View Post
Please, stop saying "goaler."
Posted via Mobile Device
Would goatlender be better?

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01-28-2010, 11:46 AM
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roy munson
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Originally Posted by MoMo316 View Post
Not sure Price/his agent will accept a backup spot here when he could be a sure #1 elsewhere.
Then he has two choices: 1) work his *** off and take that #1 spot for himself or 2) be #1 elsewhere. That's his only options if he really want to be #1. That's it. What I hate most about all this drama is that there is only ONE person able to place him on top and that's Carey himself.

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Old
01-28-2010, 11:47 AM
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loudi94
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Not sure Price/his agent will accept a backup spot here when he could be a sure #1 elsewhere.
Poppycock! He's 22. His only other option is Europe or sit out.

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Old
01-28-2010, 11:52 AM
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Kjell Dahlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexstream View Post
For unilingual Anglos :
-The conclusion is that there is no dominant goalie under 27 y.o.
-Price, Mason, Pavelec are the only 3 under 22. Price having the best stats.
-Price, despite the critics, sport a respectable career total : 2.71, .913 &
58-44-17

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...arey-price.php


That said,
I say we end the debate. We keep both, but we give time to Carey to develop, playing him the 2nd game in 2 nights, or against "bottom" feeders once Halak has played 4-5 in a row.
i.e. We sign Halak as a starter for 2-3M
We sign Price as a backup for 1-2M

and in 2-3 years, we are in a position to better judge and we can trade one of the two.
Mathias Brunet is one of the best hockey writers out there; as usual, he provided us with a level-headed perspective.

Btw... I just read his article, I agree with almost everything he wrote and I still can't believe that Gainey decided, in 2007-08, to give the Montreal Canadiens' net to one of the youngest goalies tandem (when Gainey shipped Huet out, Halak was 22 years old and Price was 20) in the history of the NHL!

No matter how you look at it (from a team win% or the young G development perspective), it was a... mind-boggling move... imo!

Regarding "... We keep both, but we give time to Carey to develop... and in 2-3 years, we are in a position to better judge and we can trade one of the two."

First thing first: Halak also needs time to develop. He still has untapped potential; the guy is only 24 years old.

As for keeping both and waiting for the cream to come on top, in theory it sounds great. In reality... not so much!

(1) Halak wants more playing time and I am sure that Price also wants to start more often. Those two young men reacted well, thus far, to the two-headed beast situation but at one point, it will degenerate. I don't think it would be healthy to keep Halak and Price for "... 2-3 years...".

(2) This team badly needs help and if you factor in the following elements: signing of numerous players in their prime to long terms and juicy $$$ contract this past summer, a new owner in town, Gainey is feeling the heat (lack of stability behind the bench, young players "mismanagement", poor pro scouting, weird contracts - Gomez, Laraque... - , the playoff $$$ are still within reach... and it becomes obvious, at least to me, that Gainey won't let this team tank. Especially if he wants to save his job.

With the injury to Andrei, the Sergei Kostitsyn saga (à la Grabovski), Chipchura and Latendresse already out of town, D'Agostini and, to a lesser extent, Pacioretty not being able to perform at the NHL level, roster Ds with heavy contracts... what's left as main bargaining chip(s)?

Halak or Price imo.

So unless you think that Gainey still is in a strong position and can afford to let this team tank out of a playoff spot, you must expect Halak or Price out... soon. I just hope that Molson will be looking over Gainey's shoulders!

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01-28-2010, 11:56 AM
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i'm tired of "goalies need to develop". **** that. there hasn't been a patrick roy caliber goalie to surface in decades. i want someone young that's dominant, any team, is it that hard? "good" goaltenders appear to be all over the world. where are those exciting ones? goalies should be drafted at 25 if they can't be any good until they're old balls.

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01-28-2010, 11:57 AM
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The end point is the same I have been pushing for a while: you can't give the team to Price now. You need a goaltender who could start 40 games.

At this point, Halak is the ideal deal, and I am sure we can sign both goaltenders for around 5M$.

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Old
01-28-2010, 11:58 AM
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That would be great but we don't live in La-La Land. Both goalies want to be #1 and I don't know if Price will accept between $1-2M although that is what he is worth.

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Old
01-28-2010, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemsFinest View Post
i'm tired of "goalies need to develop". **** that. there hasn't been a patrick roy caliber goalie to surface in decades. i want someone young that's dominant, any team, is it that hard? "good" goaltenders appear to be all over the world. where are those exciting ones? goalies should be drafted at 25 if they can't be any good until they're old balls.
Yes it is that hard because it doesn't happen before they're 27. No goalie is dominant at this stage. Patrick Roy is one of the greatest goalies of all time. You think you can find them multiple times in a decade in drafts of 30 teams? You have your head in the clouds dude.

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01-28-2010, 12:01 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
The end point is the same I have been pushing for a while: you can't give the team to Price now. You need a goaltender who could start 40 games.

At this point, Halak is the ideal deal, and I am sure we can sign both goaltenders for around 5M$.
It won't happen, they both want to be number one and if one gets to be extremely hot and plays 60 games and the other plays 22, there will be a trade demand either way.

Halak has already asked for this at 24, anyone think Price wouldn't ask either?

One goalie playing the bulk with a mature vet like Biron as the back up to play 20-25 games is ideal.

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Old
01-28-2010, 12:03 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Mathias Brunet is one of the best hockey writers out there; as usual, he provided us with a level-headed perspective.

Btw... I just read his article, I agree with almost everything he wrote and I still can't believe that Gainey decided, in 2007-08, to give the Montreal Canadiens' net to one of the youngest goalies tandem (when Gainey shipped Huet out, Halak was 22 years old and Price was 20) in the history of the NHL!

No matter how you look at it (from a team win% or the young G development perspective), it was a... mind-boggling move... imo!

Regarding "... We keep both, but we give time to Carey to develop... and in 2-3 years, we are in a position to better judge and we can trade one of the two."

First thing first: Halak also needs time to develop. He still has untapped potential; the guy is only 24 years old.

As for keeping both and waiting for the cream to come on top, in theory it sounds great. In reality... not so much!

(1) Halak wants more playing time and I am sure that Price also wants to start more often. Those two young men reacted well, thus far, to the two-headed beast situation but at one point, it will degenerate. I don't think it would be healthy to keep Halak and Price for "... 2-3 years...".

(2) This team badly needs help and if you factor in the following elements: signing of numerous players in their prime to long terms and juicy $$$ contract this past summer, a new owner in town, Gainey is feeling the heat (lack of stability behind the bench, young players "mismanagement", poor pro scouting, weird contracts - Gomez, Laraque... - , the playoff $$$ are still within reach... and it becomes obvious, at least to me, that Gainey won't let this team tank. Especially if he wants to save his job.

With the injury to Andrei, the Sergei Kostitsyn saga (à la Grabovski), Chipchura and Latendresse already out of town, D'Agostini and, to a lesser extent, Pacioretty not being able to perform at the NHL level, roster Ds with heavy contracts... what's left as main bargaining chip(s)?

Halak or Price imo.

So unless you think that Gainey still is in a strong position and can afford to let this team tank out of a playoff spot, you must expect Halak or Price out... soon. I just hope that Molson will be looking over Gainey's shoulders!
Ah, finally someone who sees the big picture. Great post buddy!

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Old
01-28-2010, 12:04 PM
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all i ask for is one. i think that's reasonable with over 6 billion people and like 25 years since roy cracked the league. i want a crosby/ovie equivalent to watch between the posts!

you don't see people who are able to just do it unfortunately. i'm not that impressed by most goalies these days. shoo bro, me too i can train and train and train and have a professional coach and i will get better and better. anyone can learn to do something over years. it's what the whole of mankind is about. but where's that kid who just comes out, and DOES. someone born to strap on pads. no technique training, no roland melanson.

i know goalies as people, tend to be particular characters, but i think that virtually anyone (within the realm of atheleticism) can be a good goalie if they're playing the spot and get years of professional help. like ****....you better ****ing be good by 27, do you realize how long you've been playing?

prodigys! wurrrr dey at!?


Last edited by HarlemsFinest: 01-28-2010 at 12:17 PM.
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Old
01-28-2010, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexstream View Post
For unilingual Anglos :
-The conclusion is that there is no dominant goalie under 27 y.o.
-Price, Mason, Pavelec are the only 3 under 22. Price having the best stats.
-Price, despite the critics, sport a respectable career total : 2.71, .913 &
58-44-17

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...arey-price.php


That said,
I say we end the debate. We keep both, but we give time to Carey to develop, playing him the 2nd game in 2 nights, or against "bottom" feeders once Halak has played 4-5 in a row.
i.e. We sign Halak as a starter for 2-3M
We sign Price as a backup for 1-2M


and in 2-3 years, we are in a position to better judge and we can trade one of the two.
Hello, arbitration.

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01-28-2010, 12:20 PM
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Hello, arbitration.
Price isn't eligible and Halak won't make much more than that.

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Old
01-28-2010, 12:28 PM
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i say we trade the not needed ones

metro,moen,spacek,mara,gill,halak and then bring up youngsters till the end of the season and then you wil know what you need to fill in to make this team ready for a real season of hockey

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Old
01-28-2010, 12:44 PM
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M.A Fleury? Isn't he on the Olympic team? He's 25.

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Old
01-28-2010, 12:49 PM
  #21
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Price is doing exceptionally well despite his age and his team (we let too many shots against us).

Let Montreal play both goalies like they're doing and let us watch and enjoy how well they've been keeping Montreal at 50/50 when they should be a lot lower than that.

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Old
01-28-2010, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by HarlemsFinest View Post
all i ask for is one. i think that's reasonable with over 6 billion people and like 25 years since roy cracked the league. i want a crosby/ovie equivalent to watch between the posts!

you don't see people who are able to just do it unfortunately. i'm not that impressed by most goalies these days. shoo bro, me too i can train and train and train and have a professional coach and i will get better and better. anyone can learn to do something over years. it's what the whole of mankind is about. but where's that kid who just comes out, and DOES. someone born to strap on pads. no technique training, no roland melanson.

i know goalies as people, tend to be particular characters, but i think that virtually anyone (within the realm of atheleticism) can be a good goalie if they're playing the spot and get years of professional help. like ****....you better ****ing be good by 27, do you realize how long you've been playing?

prodigys! wurrrr dey at!?
wtf? You can't go against the human genome.. **** sakes.. When I come to think of it, it should be me! I will just "train and train and train and have a professional coach and i will get better and better" until I am the next Roy!

Get real

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Old
01-28-2010, 12:57 PM
  #23
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M.A Fleury? Isn't he on the Olympic team? He's 25.
Yes but he's a flop!

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01-28-2010, 01:01 PM
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M.A Fleury? Isn't he on the Olympic team? He's 25.
He's also got a .908 save percentage, worse than Price's. He's not dominating.

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Old
01-28-2010, 01:01 PM
  #25
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It won't happen, they both want to be number one and if one gets to be extremely hot and plays 60 games and the other plays 22, there will be a trade demand either way.

Halak has already asked for this at 24, anyone think Price wouldn't ask either?

One goalie playing the bulk with a mature vet like Biron as the back up to play 20-25 games is ideal.
Exactly.

That is what happened with Roy/Hayward.

But I wouldn't give the no.1 spot to Price at this point of his career, nor would I give it to a small goaltender like Halak. Players of his size are usually good to start 40 games a season. Not 60.

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