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Flyers vs Penguins

View Poll Results: Philadelphia Flyers vs Pittsburgh Penguins
Philadelphia Flyers 49 50.52%
Pittsburgh Penguins 46 47.42%
Too close to call 2 2.06%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-29-2010, 07:42 AM
  #26
tony d
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Close but I'm going with the Penguins here.

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Old
01-29-2010, 07:53 AM
  #27
CS
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Division Championships
Flyers - 15
Penguins - 6

Conference Championships
Flyers - 7
Penguins - 4

Stanley Cups
Flyers - 2/7
(Beat 73-74 Bruins, 74-75 Sabres. Lost 75-76 Canadiens, 79-80 Islanders, 84-85 Oilers, 86-87 Oilers, 96-97 Red Wings.)
Penguins - 3/4
(Beat 90-91 North Stars, 91-92 Blackhawks, 08-09 Red Wings. Lost 07-08 Red Wings.)

All Time Regular Season
Flyers - 1621-1118-457-64 (2nd highest percentage in NHL history)
Penguins - 1416-1519-383-56

All Time Playoffs
Flyers - 191-178
Penguins - 101-95

Playoff Appearance Percentage
Flyers - 33/41 = 80% (3rd highest percentage in NHL history)
Penguins - 24/41 = 59%

Record Against Each Other
Flyers - 133-83-30 (904 GF - 756 GA)
Penguins - 83-133-30 (756 GF - 904 GA)

Hockey Hall of Fame
Flyers - 7 Players, 4 Builders, 2 Media (13)
Penguins - 10 Players, 4 Builders, 1 Media (15)

That's all without taking into account the following (since I don't have time to deal with it):

-Attendance Figures (Flyers)
-Individual Trophies/Awards (Penguins)
-Drafting Record/Efficiency (Flyers)
-Team Total Value (Flyers)

You should get the idea by now.

Philly literally wins everything except Individual Trophies (by quite a few), Hall of Famers (by 2), and Stanley Cups (by 1)


Last edited by CS: 01-29-2010 at 08:04 AM.
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Old
01-29-2010, 07:58 AM
  #28
Hawkey Town 18
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Philly has been more consistently good over the years, but Pittsburgh has the better top end (aka more Cups). I think what puts Pittsburgh over the top for me is that between Lemieux, Jagr, and Crosby they've had one of the top 2 players in the league almost every year since the mid-80's.

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Old
01-29-2010, 08:11 AM
  #29
Bruinsfan_37
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Penguins

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Old
01-29-2010, 09:22 AM
  #30
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This is laughable. I may be slightly biased, but because the Penguins have one more cup, and just recently got good again, that somehow puts them over the edge, whereas Philly beats them out in almost every other category? If that's how people want to judge, I'll gladly stay a Flyers fan, where we at least know the guy who owns the organization(who is Snider by the way, not Clarke), holds winning above everything else. And this said organization is one of the most respected in the league.

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Old
01-29-2010, 09:28 AM
  #31
CS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
Philly has been more consistently good over the years, but Pittsburgh has the better top end (aka more Cups). I think what puts Pittsburgh over the top for me is that between Lemieux, Jagr, and Crosby they've had one of the top 2 players in the league almost every year since the mid-80's.
Nearly half of their existence (two decades of the four) they've had one of the top 3 players in the NHL (often more than one in the same year), as you have said. Even so, they still come nowhere close to the Flyers in the grand scheme of the NHL in terms of winning and relevance year in and year out.

That's actually pretty pathetic. It really shouldn't help the Penguins out at all if they couldn't come anywhere near the Flyers in terms of winning even with some of the most dynamic players ever to play the game.

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Old
01-29-2010, 10:17 AM
  #32
TheReaper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Division Championships
Flyers - 15
Penguins - 6

Conference Championships
Flyers - 7
Penguins - 4

Stanley Cups
Flyers - 2/7
(Beat 73-74 Bruins, 74-75 Sabres. Lost 75-76 Canadiens, 79-80 Islanders, 84-85 Oilers, 86-87 Oilers, 96-97 Red Wings.)
Penguins - 3/4
(Beat 90-91 North Stars, 91-92 Blackhawks, 08-09 Red Wings. Lost 07-08 Red Wings.)

All Time Regular Season
Flyers - 1621-1118-457-64 (2nd highest percentage in NHL history)
Penguins - 1416-1519-383-56

All Time Playoffs
Flyers - 191-178
Penguins - 101-95

Playoff Appearance Percentage
Flyers - 33/41 = 80% (3rd highest percentage in NHL history)
Penguins - 24/41 = 59%

Record Against Each Other
Flyers - 133-83-30 (904 GF - 756 GA)
Penguins - 83-133-30 (756 GF - 904 GA)

Hockey Hall of Fame
Flyers - 7 Players, 4 Builders, 2 Media (13)
Penguins - 10 Players, 4 Builders, 1 Media (15)

That's all without taking into account the following (since I don't have time to deal with it):

-Attendance Figures (Flyers)
-Individual Trophies/Awards (Penguins)
-Drafting Record/Efficiency (Flyers)
-Team Total Value (Flyers)

You should get the idea by now.

Philly literally wins everything except Individual Trophies (by quite a few), Hall of Famers (by 2), and Stanley Cups (by 1)
Well, the Flyers have been more consistent than the Pens during their time in the NHL. But there is only one stat that really matters, Stanley Cup wins. That's what the players play hockey for.
Still, it's all relative. For me, the point of a season is to win the Stanley Cup, therefore a franchise who has won more Stanley Cups is more successful.

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Old
01-29-2010, 10:29 AM
  #33
CS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReaper View Post
Well, the Flyers have been more consistent than the Pens during their time in the NHL. But there is only one stat that really matters, Stanley Cup wins. That's what the players play hockey for.
Still, it's all relative. For me, the point of a season is to win the Stanley Cup, therefore a franchise who has won more Stanley Cups is more successful.
That might be the worst argument ever created.

That's like saying Trent Dilfer is a better quarterback than Dan Marino...

Granted, compared to the 41 years of the Flyers organization, the Penguins might actually look like Trent Dilfer to the Flyers' Dan Marino.

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Old
01-29-2010, 11:05 AM
  #34
Noah23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That might be the worst argument ever created.

That's like saying Trent Dilfer is a better quarterback than Dan Marino...

Granted, compared to the 41 years of the Flyers organization, the Penguins might actually look like Trent Dilfer to the Flyers' Dan Marino.
Bitter are we?

10 bucks says you weren't even alive last time the flyers won a Stanley Cup. Bobby Clarke for me will always be the biggest scum bag in Hockey History... I will never forgive him for what he did to the most skilled Hockey Player I've ever seen...

To add a different dimension

Pittsburgh:
Penguins - 3 Stanley Cups Since I've been Alive.
Steelers - 6 Superbowls Since I've been alive
Pirates - 3 World Series Wins since I've been Alive.

Philadelphia:
Flyers - 2 Stanley Cups in my lifetime
Eagles - Nothing in my lifetime
Phillies - 2 in my lifetime
76ers - 2 in my lifetime

Not that it really matters, but just to add something, imo Pittsburgh is the more Successful sports town

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Old
01-29-2010, 11:21 AM
  #35
CS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godric View Post
Bitter are we?

10 bucks says you weren't even alive last time the flyers won a Stanley Cup. Bobby Clarke for me will always be the biggest scum bag in Hockey History... I will never forgive him for what he did to the most skilled Hockey Player I've ever seen...

To add a different dimension

Pittsburgh:
Penguins - 3 Stanley Cups Since I've been Alive.
Steelers - 6 Superbowls Since I've been alive
Pirates - 3 World Series Wins since I've been Alive.

Philadelphia:
Flyers - 2 Stanley Cups in my lifetime
Eagles - Nothing in my lifetime
Phillies - 2 in my lifetime
76ers - 2 in my lifetime

Not that it really matters, but just to add something, imo Pittsburgh is the more Successful sports town
Just because I'm correct doesn't make me bitter.

Besides, Philadelphia's whole thing is years of disappointment. So congratulations on Pittsburgh winning all of those championships without having anywhere near the biggest sports city in the United States. The fans are what make the "sports town" not the Championships, and I can think of a lot better fanbases than Pittsburgh. Granted, Steelers fans are definitely up there in the NFL.

And yes, Clarke was the biggest piece of scum in NHL history. That's the obvious comment right? You're probably the same person who thinks the Flyers' roster right now is the dirtiest in the NHL, if not far dirtier than the Penguins. Rude awakening: All NHL teams are dirty, yes even your beloved Pittsburgh Penguins. Yes, they are dirty to the extent that the Flyers are dirty. Get over it. All NHL teams do whatever it takes to win.

Anyway, back to the point. This is about the Flyers organization all-time against the Penguins organization all-time.

I would love to hear an actual valid argument as to why the Penguins are the better organization.

The amount of Stanley Cups has been said. Unfortunately, the Penguins don't exactly have 20. They have 1 more than the Flyers, and have been to the finals far less. The Flyers also lost a number of their Cup opportunities to some of the best teams ever to take the ice at the NHL level. This is the Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino argument.

The other argument I've heard is the big names argument. The Flyers winning percentages, playoff appearances, and overall championships is so superior that it almost seems laughable to make this argument. How did the Penguins have so many great players for nearly two decades and still not manage to come anywhere near the Flyers in any categories except for an extra Cup? It makes no sense.

So please. Give me a legitimate argument as to why the Penguins are the superior organization. Until that time, this is just another joke poll where the Penguins will of course win just because they're the Penguins without anyone using any real logic.

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Old
01-29-2010, 11:29 AM
  #36
GoneFullHextall
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some people cant look at the big picture.
Only recent history.

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Old
01-29-2010, 11:34 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godric View Post
Bitter are we?

10 bucks says you weren't even alive last time the flyers won a Stanley Cup. Bobby Clarke for me will always be the biggest scum bag in Hockey History... I will never forgive him for what he did to the most skilled Hockey Player I've ever seen...
pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot.
I guess it was ok for Ulfie to ruin the best power forward of our generations career.
Please dont act like Pens dont have bandwagoneeers. They have plenty of them. Many on this board.

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Old
01-29-2010, 11:43 AM
  #38
Noah23
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Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot.
I guess it was ok for Ulfie to ruin the best power forward of our generations career.
Please dont act like Pens dont have bandwagoneeers. They have plenty of them. Many on this board.
Neely got what was coming to him.

Valeri Kharlamov didn't.

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:16 PM
  #39
chimrichalds18
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People do realize that the only success the Penguins have had has come when they've had not one but two generational talents and that their franchise has been blessed with this occurrence TWICE. Lemieux (1st overall), Jagr (5th overall), Crosby (1st overall), Malkin (2nd overall--behind Ovechkin). Yes, Crosby was a lottery, but the Penguins still had a better chance than 26 other teams.

Obviously, I can't deny that all four of those players are fantastic hockey players. But the Penguins were directly rewarded for being a terrible franchise, and not only rewarded with pretty good players, but with Hall of Fame, generational talent taken at the top of the draft. The only one they had to 'work' for was Jagr since he was 5th overall, but that's not too much of a stretch.

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:18 PM
  #40
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Eras? what the ****?
periods in time.

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:30 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That might be the worst argument ever created.

That's like saying Trent Dilfer is a better quarterback than Dan Marino...

Granted, compared to the 41 years of the Flyers organization, the Penguins might actually look like Trent Dilfer to the Flyers' Dan Marino.
First of all, I was giving my own personal opinion.
2nd, I was talking about an individual player so your comparison doesn't make sense. I'm talking about a team. A better franchise is the one with the most success IMO. And I also mention that it is relative to people's point of view. The Flyers had the most consistent team throughout the years. But the Pens are more successful when it matters.

And I don't know anything about american football, so...

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:32 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Pirates - 3 World Series Wins since I've been Alive.
I actually had to look up to see when the Pirates last won a World Series. 1979. Haven't really been relevant since then.

Flyers have been a consistently decent team. Their overall record says that. Their fans have been diehard since the team was introduced. I can't say the same about Pens fans. They have the better record against the Pens.

Quote:
Philly has been more consistently good over the years, but Pittsburgh has the better top end (aka more Cups). I think what puts Pittsburgh over the top for me is that between Lemieux, Jagr, and Crosby they've had one of the top 2 players in the league almost every year since the mid-80's.
And how did they get the current crop of good, young players? By sucking. That's real admirable. How did the Flyers get players like Carter, Richards and Giroux? By drafting well and staying competitive. JVR is the only top 5 guy we have.

Flyers are the better franchise.

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:34 PM
  #43
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by a lot of flyers fans logic, san jose must be the greatest team of all time because only the regular season and division championships matter.

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:36 PM
  #44
TheReaper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot.
I guess it was ok for Ulfie to ruin the best power forward of our generations career.
Please dont act like Pens dont have bandwagoneeers. They have plenty of them. Many on this board.
He wasn't saying anything about bandwagoners, he just said that the poster wasn't alive when Flyers last won a cup. If you consider someone who falls into that category a bandwangoner then anybody who is over 35 and supports the flyers is a bandwagon fan.

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:39 PM
  #45
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penguins and its not even close. more stanley cups, more art ross trophies, more hart trophy winners

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:48 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by BWAVgal View Post
I actually had to look up to see when the Pirates last won a World Series. 1979. Haven't really been relevant since then.
Flyers are the better franchise.
Oh the Irony... According to your logic the flyers havent been relevant for even longer.

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:52 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trilliam Shakesbeer View Post
The Flyers have the second highest winning percentage of any team in NHL history.

The Flyers all-time record against the Penguins is 133-83-30.

The Flyers have missed the playoffs 8 times in 41 seasons. The Penguins have missed the playoffs 16 times in 41 seasons.

The Flyers have 7 Stanley Cup Finals appearances and 2 Cups. Their 5 losses came at the hands of some of the greatest teams of all time ('76 Canadiens, '80 Islanders, '85 and '87 Oilers, '97 Red Wings). The Penguins have 4 appearances and an impressive 3 wins.

So, if the Flyers win another Cup before the Pens do, this isn't even a discussion.
I don't think there's much of a discussion now. I picked the Flyers pretty easily.

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:56 PM
  #48
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Flyers: Long time, successful franchise with a history of winning, even if they haven't consistently dominated.

Penguins: Occasionally troubled franchise which seems to rely on luck for success, supported by bandwaggon fans who abandoned them when they were bad.

I voted for Philly.

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:58 PM
  #49
Hawkey Town 18
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After reading some of these comments and reconsidering, I would like to change my vote to Philly...

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Old
01-29-2010, 12:58 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godric View Post
Pirates - 3 World Series Wins since I've been Alive.
You're citing the Pirates to help your argument? Really? They haven't been a factor since Barry Bonds skipped town.

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