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Red Wings Mid-Season Prospect Rankings [#2]

View Poll Results: #2 Red Wings Prospect
(F) Joakim Andersson 0 0%
(F) Cory Emmerton 0 0%
(F) Landon Ferraro 5 9.62%
(F) Jan Mursak 7 13.46%
(F) Gustav Nyquist 5 9.62%
(F) Mattias Ritola 1 1.92%
(D) Jakub Kindl 25 48.08%
(D) Brendan Smith 9 17.31%
(G) Daniel Larsson 0 0%
(G) Thomas McCollum 0 0%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-01-2010, 09:20 PM
  #26
r0bert8841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Part of what makes prospects so interesting is the subjectivity of their nature. There are so many variables, many of which are unknown, that it's impossible to always agree. Personally, I think Mursak can easily be a top-6 guy. If Hudler had the size/strength or speed, he'd easily be top-6. Mursak doesn't have the size/strength, but he does have the speed. Lots of it.

Kindl may have a higher ceiling, I don't know. If he does, I would suspect it's negated by the likelihood of him reaching it being less than Mursak reaching his. Just my take.
We posted very similar posts at the same time

But yes Mursak could possibly be on the top 6 in Detroit but we don't want to risk severe injury because he is so weak. He will also develop his skills set alot more in GR this year and next. In 2 seasons we might have Tatar, Nyquist, and Mursak all make the team at once. That will be one hell of a season. Mursak's ceiling is Datsyuk high, so I am not sure how much higher of a ceiling Kindl could possibly have.

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Old
02-01-2010, 09:24 PM
  #27
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I voted Brendan Smith #1 cause he is DOMINATING his league.
I might have voted Tatar #2 but that isn't an option.

So I voted Mursak #2. Like several core members of the team he could make the big club before his eligibility expires. I am pretty sure that was the case with Kronwall, Franzen, Filppula and Helm. Oh and he's not a big, soft Euro [cough Ryno, cough HTD] who gets homesick and bolts. Mursak came over as soon as he was drafted, took his lumps and is beginning to thrive in the A.

So Jan Mursak is my #2 Red Wings prospect.

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Old
02-01-2010, 09:27 PM
  #28
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is giving his rankings.

Ferraro #2a
Coetzee #2b
Almqvist #2c

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Old
02-01-2010, 09:32 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
In my opinion, the only difference between Hudler and a young Datsyuk is speed. Mursak is possibly one of the fastest players on the Griffins if not the AHL. Mursak looks alot like a young Datsyuk. Or a more skilled version of Helm. Actually during the first half of the season when Mursak was in an energy role he did looked alot more like skilled version of Helm
No, just no, r0bert....

Datsyuk is an incredible talent. The guy's stickhandling is beyond belief. He can pick pockets. He knows exactly where to be on the ice, whether it's offense or defense that dictates the choice. He makes incredible passes. He even hits. It was evident fairly early on that this guy was special. He can be listed as one of the top 2-3 centers in the world, depending on how you decide to rank skills and performance metrics.

I like Hudler. I'd never compare his talent to Datsyuk's however. Sorry for the OT, but I couldn't let this one slide through.

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02-01-2010, 09:35 PM
  #30
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i guess you simply watched the wrong guy.

when i watched him my first thought was "fugu will love him" because he had so many brainfarts, it looked like lilja in his "prime". simply like someone who will make you scream to your TV.

the good thing is that he has enough hockey sense to save a lot of those situations. he really saved his butt sometimes. but he needs to stop with that stuff in the NHL.

No, that's just it. I didn't see a guy who was being outplayed. He looked like he wasn't truly being challenged. I'm expecting the Wings brass to want to move him out of the NCAA next year (if he'll go) because he needs to take the next step to develop. The guy I saw didn't need to fire on all pistons.

Edit: The other half and our son are going to Camp Randall for the outdoor U of M vs UWis game. I'll ask them to keep an eye on the defensive end, but I'm not sure I trust their scouting abilities. (My son even likes Lilja!)

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02-01-2010, 10:16 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
No, just no, r0bert....

Datsyuk is an incredible talent. The guy's stickhandling is beyond belief. He can pick pockets. He knows exactly where to be on the ice, whether it's offense or defense that dictates the choice. He makes incredible passes. He even hits. It was evident fairly early on that this guy was special. He can be listed as one of the top 2-3 centers in the world, depending on how you decide to rank skills and performance metrics.

I like Hudler. I'd never compare his talent to Datsyuk's however. Sorry for the OT, but I couldn't let this one slide through.
Dang I was hoping noone would call me out on my Mursak hyping

But a young Datsyuk didn't play much defense or hit (and by young Datsyuk I mean Datsyuk as a rookie). Yes Mursak's stick handling isn't as good as even a young Datsyuk, it is still very good. I was alluding more to their similarity in playing styles. Using their speed and stick handling to make explosive plays and having eyes in the back of their heads. Mursak doesn't have the stick handling of a young Datsyuk but he does have an edge on strength, defense, and physicality. I am sure everyone who has watched Mursak has confused him for Datsyuk a few times, and it has more to do than having the same number.

Edit: I just reread it and realized you were talking about Hudler , my reading comp at its finest. Hudler and a young Datsyuk were both small, shifty, and super skilled european players. I feel if Hudler had more speed and strength he could be putting up Datsyuk like numbers, because even though Hudler may not be as good defensively, he has a much better shot and is just clutch. But ya you are right they really aren't that comparable.


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Old
02-01-2010, 10:20 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zecke26 View Post
mursak has the same question marks as others. i mean, he's not even close to be dominant in the AHL. he looks good at times, but he's not yet consistent. that would be the next step. and he's still very soft. so he's 2-3 years away from challenging for a spot in detroit.
I don't think you know what you're talking about Zecke. Mursak isn't soft.

Vote Mursak.
Add: Whoever.

EDIT: BOOOO KINDL VOTERS

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Old
02-01-2010, 10:30 PM
  #33
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Add Almqvist...

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Old
02-01-2010, 10:38 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
Dang I was hoping noone would call me out on my Mursak hyping

But a young Datsyuk didn't play much defense or hit (and by young Datsyuk I mean Datsyuk as a rookie). Yes Mursak's stick handling isn't as good as even a young Datsyuk, it is still very good. I was alluding more to their similarity in playing styles. Using their speed and stick handling to make explosive plays and having eyes in the back of their heads. Mursak doesn't have the stick handling of a young Datsyuk but he does have an edge on strength, defense, and physicality. I am sure everyone who has watched Mursak has confused him for Datsyuk a few times, and it has more to do than having the same number.

Edit: I just reread it and realized you were talking about Hudler , my reading comp at its finest. Hudler and a young Datsyuk were both small, shifty, and super skilled european players. I feel if Hudler had more speed and strength he could be putting up Datsyuk like numbers, because even though Hudler may not be as good defensively, he has a much better shot and is just clutch. But ya you are right they really aren't that comparable.
I'll just say that the similarities betwixt the two end after 'European.'

Speed and strength don't remotely begin to describe the only differences. S'okay. I'll get off my Dats soapbox.

@CB. Why don't you like Kindl?

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02-01-2010, 10:50 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post

@CB. Why don't you like Kindl?
Why would I?
The guy has shown virtually nothing, thus far.

He's got size, but no mean streak.
He's got skill, but no production.
He takes at least a full season to adjust when he jumps up a level. And he still hasn't really mastered the AHL yet.

What do people like about him?

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Old
02-01-2010, 11:00 PM
  #36
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Smith..

add Nestrasil.

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Old
02-01-2010, 11:11 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Why would I?
The guy has shown virtually nothing, thus far.

He's got size, but no mean streak.
He's got skill, but no production.
He takes at least a full season to adjust when he jumps up a level. And he still hasn't really mastered the AHL yet.

What do people like about him?
I don't remember where I first read "Kindl has all the tools but no toolbox," but it's always seemed to be the appropriate phrase. The kid has lots of skill but just can't seem to put it all together and make it work. While I agree that there isn't much to like about him right now, I think the one thing that stands out is his potential.

[enter argument over how likely it is he reaches his potential here]

I hope like hell he turns out how the organization hopes, but he's far from a sure bet.

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02-01-2010, 11:33 PM
  #38
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On Mursak comparisons...

I'm not a fan of the Datsyuk comparison, either. The guy Mursak, from what little I've seen of him and from what I've read, reminds me of is Ziggy Palffy. Smallish, very fast, great at moving through traffic. He might not be the game breaker that Palffy was, but I see Mursak along those lines.

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02-01-2010, 11:35 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Why would I?
The guy has shown virtually nothing, thus far.

He's got size, but no mean streak.
He's got skill, but no production.
He takes at least a full season to adjust when he jumps up a level. And he still hasn't really mastered the AHL yet.

What do people like about him?
Couldn't agree more. I think people are holding on to illusions founded in the past. Or his place as one of the highest Wings picks of the last decade (if not the highest). I just don't see it.



Voted for Smith in the poll. With prospects, its about upside, and I think Smith has 40+ point potential in the NHL.

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02-02-2010, 12:35 AM
  #40
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Would people disagree that our top 5 prospects are in no order

Tatar
Kindl
Mursak
Smith
Nyqvist

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02-02-2010, 12:42 AM
  #41
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Nyquist, add Almqvist

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02-02-2010, 05:42 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the banks View Post
Would people disagree that our top 5 prospects are in no order

Tatar
Kindl
Mursak
Smith
Nyqvist
Possibly, some may argue McCollum or Larsson but at the moment both are looking terrible.

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02-02-2010, 08:09 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
On Mursak comparisons...

I'm not a fan of the Datsyuk comparison, either. The guy Mursak, from what little I've seen of him and from what I've read, reminds me of is Ziggy Palffy. Smallish, very fast, great at moving through traffic. He might not be the game breaker that Palffy was, but I see Mursak along those lines.
Nice call.

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02-02-2010, 10:31 AM
  #44
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As much as it pains me to say so it's definately Smith.

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02-02-2010, 12:44 PM
  #45
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As much as it pains me to say so it's definately Smith.

Why the pain?

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02-02-2010, 01:22 PM
  #46
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Why the pain?
Because he hated the Smith pick and to this day would rather have seen the Wings select Nick Petrecki. He's openly rooted against Smith in the past (which he now denies), in the hopes that he would fail so he could say he was right about Petrecki.

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02-02-2010, 02:24 PM
  #47
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Kindl -I would have voted him #1 but missed that opportunity. The tools but not the toolbox statement is crap. The same people casting dispersions on Kindl were throwing Howard under the bus and are/were in love with Ericsson because he is big.

Kindl's entire AHL career has been on a very average to horrible Griffin team. He was the best player with Kitchener, made the AHL all-star team and he is having a very good last season in GR, in spite of playing with some uninspired (thankfully Nylander was assigned to Sweden) and under-talented teammates. Does anyone think Ericsson outplayed him last season? I think Kindl is bored in the AHL. As for taking a year to assimilate, many do. Ericsson still is. Leino is not close, Kronner took a while and so have others. Helm may be the exception, may, but that is a genetic quirk. His style is not as much system as it is speed only a very select players can match (and that is a "maybe." I believe Helm is the fastest player in the game) .

Hey beat me up, but I was right on Quincey, Howard, Ericsson (not down on the guy, but those placing him into the top 4 and comparing him to Robinson, Blake, etc. were doing so with only a yard stick measuring height), and I shall be right with Kindl.

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02-02-2010, 02:34 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the banks View Post
Would people disagree that our top 5 prospects are in no order

Tatar
Kindl
Mursak
Smith
Nyqvist
I agree with this list. Some might say that McCollum belongs, but being a first round pick doesn't guarantee anything and he's been awful this season. The only other name that might belong in there is Ferraro, but I'm hard pressed to say he's got more upside than Tatar, Mursak or Nyqvist.

So yeah, I'd say that is the consensus top five.

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02-02-2010, 03:05 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heyfolks View Post
Kindl -I would have voted him #1 but missed that opportunity. The tools but not the toolbox statement is crap. The same people casting dispersions on Kindl were throwing Howard under the bus and are/were in love with Ericsson because he is big.

Kindl's entire AHL career has been on a very average to horrible Griffin team. He was the best player with Kitchener, made the AHL all-star team and he is having a very good last season in GR, in spite of playing with some uninspired (thankfully Nylander was assigned to Sweden) and under-talented teammates. Does anyone think Ericsson outplayed him last season? I think Kindl is bored in the AHL. As for taking a year to assimilate, many do. Ericsson still is. Leino is not close, Kronner took a while and so have others. Helm may be the exception, may, but that is a genetic quirk. His style is not as much system as it is speed only a very select players can match (and that is a "maybe." I believe Helm is the fastest player in the game) .

Hey beat me up, but I was right on Quincey, Howard, Ericsson (not down on the guy, but those placing him into the top 4 and comparing him to Robinson, Blake, etc. were doing so with only a yard stick measuring height), and I shall be right with Kindl.
Who compared him to Robinson? Who compared him to Blake?
And how are you going to be right about Kindl, if you didn't say anything about him?

And how have you been right on Howard and Ericsson, or even Quincey.
I don't think they're exactly known qualities just yet.

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02-02-2010, 03:35 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heyfolks View Post
Kindl -I would have voted him #1 but missed that opportunity. The tools but not the toolbox statement is crap. The same people casting dispersions on Kindl were throwing Howard under the bus and are/were in love with Ericsson because he is big.

Kindl's entire AHL career has been on a very average to horrible Griffin team. He was the best player with Kitchener, made the AHL all-star team and he is having a very good last season in GR, in spite of playing with some uninspired (thankfully Nylander was assigned to Sweden) and under-talented teammates. Does anyone think Ericsson outplayed him last season? I think Kindl is bored in the AHL. As for taking a year to assimilate, many do. Ericsson still is. Leino is not close, Kronner took a while and so have others. Helm may be the exception, may, but that is a genetic quirk. His style is not as much system as it is speed only a very select players can match (and that is a "maybe." I believe Helm is the fastest player in the game) .

Hey beat me up, but I was right on Quincey, Howard, Ericsson (not down on the guy, but those placing him into the top 4 and comparing him to Robinson, Blake, etc. were doing so with only a yard stick measuring height), and I shall be right with Kindl.
Noone is saying Kindl isn't going to be good, we are just saying he hasn't done anything to prove he is capable of consistent play in the NHL, while others have. Kindl has been improving his play and his +/- every season but it still isn't that impressive at all. Their are so many Griffins with better +/- that it is really hard to over look, especially when you see this 3 years in a row. I actually thought the "he has the tools but not the toolbox" statement describes him perfectly. He makes the same bonehead places for the Griffs Ericsson does for the Wings. But when he isn't making those plays he is a force.

OT: How often do you get to see Kindl play?

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